noticed this on the range today....

[elia.jon1 1]

so the wife and i, went to the range with her uncle and his wife.

 

he was shooting a newly acquired marlin 30-30(100yds open sights)

 

i was shooting my ar (300 yard gong open sights)

 

a fella was there sighting in a .243 with a decent scope one it at 100 yards....

 

 

then there were 2 guys shooting twin ar's the guns were set up exactly alike, they were both shooting at a target at 300 yards, guns in rests (where you can just leave the gun alone and it stays in the same spot) i guess ransom rest?

 

the guys had i'm pretty sure he said 24x scopes(they were huge) and one guy managed to hit a bullseye on the target he was very happy(almost too happy)

 

my wifes uncle was hitting a 3 inch circle with his 30-30(supported on a table), i was hitting a 15x15 gong(prone), and these guys were hitting a target about the same size as the gong......

 

if your not holding you gun, and are able to leave it in a rest and manage to hit the same spot do you think its as good as being able to hold the gun and almost do the same thing?

 

they seemed to think they were real hot shit, they tried to tell the uncle he could build a suppressor for a 25$ tax stamp, i told them no it was 200$ and they pretty much told me i was full of shit.....this is a little bit of venting, but...damn some people.....

 

but what i'm trying to say, is would you rather have a high magnification scope and a rest and hit silver dollars at 300 yards, or would you rather have open sights and be able to hit pie plates? which seems better?

[KC913 324]

To me, open sights. In a SHTF scenerio, you can pick your shit up and shoot without having to be sure your shit is zeroed in and on target. Scopes are nice if you're hunting, but for situations where you won't have time to be sure your scope is zeroed in, or for some reason your scope is damaged, you had better be sure you can stay on target with your open sights.

 

Just my .02

[kdbutler 563]

To me, open sights. In a SHTF scenerio, you can pick your shit up and shoot without having to be sure your shit is zeroed in and on target. Scopes are nice if you're hunting, but for situations where you won't have time to be sure your scope is zeroed in, or for some reason your scope is damaged, you had better be sure you can stay on target with your open sights.

 

Just my .02

 

I guess it depends on the purpose of your weapon. Accuracy from a benchrest in no way translates in to accuracy under stress. Its a good tool for determining the inherent accuracy of your set-up, but of little use beyond that IMHO.

 

I think it was Clint Smith who said something in effect that Marksmanship and Gunfighting are NOT the same. And when I think of typical SHTF ranges, I doubt many engagements would be beyond 100 yards. It would be nice to know if I could hit a target beyond that distance though.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I see a few guys at my gun club like that too. Lead sled on the table, they sit there and play with knobs for 20 minutes. Then they take one shot. get up, walk around, come back 5 mins later, second shot, etc.

 

I understand if you're trying to zero a scope, test reloads, see how a new barrel works, etc. then that makes sense as you want to remove all human error (or at least as much as possible)

 

But I see the same guys, week after week, doing the same thing with the same gun. To me, that is just worthless shooting, may as well stay at home. You aren't gonna take the lead sled hunting, and sure as hell not gonna have time to set it up in an emergency. So it's just utterly pointless.

 

I mean, to each his own. People wanna do that, that's their thing, go right ahead. But it does piss me off when these people compare their gun-in-a-vise accuracy to someone actually holding the rifle, or act like they are better shooters, etc.

[paprotective 362]

I decided red dot (non-magnification) on my 7.62x39 was good (for me) out to 125'ish, and 6x32 scope on my 5.45x39 for out to 200 yards (maybe farther but my range is 200 yards) with just a bag rest support doing 5-7" groups.

 

With irons on the 7.62x39 I can do 6-8 inch swaths (at 100yds) just winging it (standing up) abit..

 

For me plinking is just that plinking.. I know when I get MAD I tend to shoot better..

 

Every rifle for me anyhow has a purpose, but I can change with the tide as needed... SHTF I'm not going to picky..

 

 

Al

[cooger 19]

I'd much rather be able to hit pie plates. I'm not a sniper or have no intentions of taking a 500 yard shot on some type of game so the huge scope on a sled serves no purpose for me. Those guys may have some purpose for doing that, I don't know. I do know that it takes more skill to do what you guys were doing than throwing a gun in a sled and hitting a target. I wonder what those guys could do with that gun without their sled when that deer walks into sight or they have to take down a human target and their adrenaline gets going real good. I think the type of shooting you guys were doing will serve you better than what they did.

[abra-cadaver 3]

If someone likes shooting from a bench rest all the time like that, more power to em. We should all be able to enjoy our guns any way we like. However if you are trying to (im)prove your marksmanship the bench rest is not how you do that. Its a test of the gun itself like others have said. If you wanna compair your skill with someone else, you should be trying to do things as similarly as possible, ex both shooting prone, standing, kneeling ect. If your prepairing for shtf you should be practicing with your weapon in the manner closest to expected usage. I like to practice standing most, though Im more accurate when I sit. I don't see my self sitting at a table if I should need to defend myself. I need to find a range where I can get some prone practice and moving while shooting. My AK is my defense carbine, and those are the ways I think would most likely shoot.

 

 

[RobRez 1,895]

I can find enjoyment from both styles of shooting. Personally I value shooting while holding my rifle in ways that I will come upon during hunting season. When you NEED to shoot, you don't always have an option to the ol' point and shoot quick,and kill with one shot.

I like to draw targets of deer in blue and then draw a red heart, life size, in the correct place. Set the targets at 100, 150 and 200 yards, then while standing in a normal carrying position as if walking through the woods, just raise my rifle and get a good shot off as calmly and quickly as possible.

I use a lever action .44 Mag Marlin rifle.(my favorite hunting rifle.)

This form of practice is what actually builds my confidence as a shooter.

Bench shooting at tiny targets is a fun time but I feel we could be talking "Apples and Oranges"

[IndyArms 10,186]

I agree with the apples and oranges... You may never see them shoot those same rifles in the field they are benchrest testing at the range... they may be doing exactly what you said... load testing, or zeroing, or just seeing exactly HOW accurate that rifle is... that way when they ARE in the field, shooting it themselves... they know any oops is error on their part, NOT the optics, or the rifle...

 

I personally try to make sure my rifles are bench rest tested on leather shooting bags... so that I *KNOW* that bullet will go where the crosshair is... every one, every time... If I am holding it and I miss... then *I* missed... not the rifle...

 

For example I KNOW that at 100 yards with a certain load the rifle is dead nutz accurate... so when I vaporzed a starling at 60 yards this afternoon with a 55 grain Nosler custom competition hollowpoint... It did its job... and so did I... Just rested the rifle on the windowsill and squeezed it off... POOF! 20' circle of black feathers, chunks and bits...

 

To me its just that simple...

 

 

[G O B 3,516]

Range time is a precious commodity around here, so I always shoot off hand. If I can hit it off hand, then I can hit it if there is a rest available. I am looking forward to getting the hell out of here and moving to somewhere where I can have the luxury of bench testing and tweaking my stuff, but until then I will use whatever range time I can manage to just stand up and shoot!

[elia.jon1 1]

like i said it's a little bit of a rant.....

 

but there wasn't zeroing going on, both were checking zero for the upcoming "hog hunting tournament"

 

i guess it just seemed a little crazy to me that they were expecting to shoot big east texas hogs at 300 yards with a .223

 

 

its just kind of strange to me, that everyone i've ever seen on that range with an ar had a huge scope, and a rest...

 

....the only iron sight (or red dot) shooting i've seen done out there was with a m16 at the 25 yard berm(mag dumps)

[Jpanzer 1,265]

To each their own I suppose. Personally I like to shoot standing or kneeling, or sitting using a rucksack or something handy as a rest. The bench rest is a tool, not a means to an end. The term "rifleman" has little to do with shooting from a bench rest in my opinion...

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

If you get kicks shooting targets, then I don't see why it has to be anything more than that (i.e. training for doomsday!).

 

I think scopes over 20 power are quite excessive unless you are a benchrest shooter (or maybe a varmint hunter), but clarity of the glass and precision of the reticle outweighs magnification in my book every time.

 

Testing to know that your rifle is accurate to 1/2 MOA is going to make the person shooting psychologically more confident that they are capable of hitting what they want.

 

I see guys at the range with open sights (AK's, AR's and even rimfires) that can't hit watermelons or gallon jugs at 50 yards (maybe 3-4 hits out of a 30 round magazine). So would learning benchrest basics help that person? Probably. Flinching and anticipating recoil are the main causes of inaccuracy in new recruits and people that spray and pray at the range.

 

Out to 500 yards, a decent marksman should be able to hit 15" gongs with open sights if rested(that translates to a 3 MOA shot which is well within the ability of most milsurp, AK, AR centerfire rifles). If you want to consistently shoot 1 MOA or better (about 5.25" at 500 yards) you are probably going to need a good scope.