incognito485 26 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Hello all, I'm new to the forum and just recently bought a saiga 12 shotgun. I see that some of you have posted somethng about have issues with the gas system. I was wondering what issues that might be and how to identify it. The reason is I just recently shot about 100 rounds of Winchester field loads through it and had some big issues with the surefire mags I bought (mostly 12 rounder). He surefire mags performed poorly. I had quite a few misfeeds. When I changed the gas setting to check and see if it was the problem , the bolt wouldn't even cycle but the round would go off. I assume that is normal since that would be the setting for magnums and heavier loads. Anyway I don't have any more time to go into right now but any info given will be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snoofer 138 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 welcome to the board. i had issues with my gun not cycling cheap birdshot too. it was because the gas system only had two ports. you can check the number of ports by removing the cap on the end of the gas tube and looking down the tube with a light. some guns just need to be broken in a little bit 1st before they cycle birdshot reliably. if your gun has at least three ports try using different shells than the win. even before i sent my gun in for warranty to have the third port added i had a lot better luck with federal 6 shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) Is the gun brand new or used? You need to fire 400-500 of high brass to break it in. Use your factory mag to make sure its the mags first. I know cadiz does there warranty work with federal bulk 1 1/8 oz bird shot bulk from walmart. Try shooting them if you still have a problem call cadiz gun works for warranty work. Edited June 7, 2010 by Rangerguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 First, pull your gas plug and count your gas ports. Two, take some stripped 12 gauge wire and some stripped 14 gauge wire and find out which size fits your gas ports. If the ports are large enough and you have the correct amount then you just need to run some 00 Buck or slugs through the weapon to break it in. After a couple hundred rounds it should be good and broke-in. Oh, and remember, 1 for Buck and slugs 2 for low-brass bird shot and other rounds... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Hey guys I appreciate the quick responses. I'll try that out and check the gas ports. It is brand new, my buddy collects all kinds of guns and bought it and never shot it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Good luck and let us know how it goes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Well.... instead of wasting money on 400-500 rounds of high base ammo, why not just rack the slide violently 400-500 times? OR.... a hobby file set and some 400 grit sandpaper is a much faster and economical way to achieve 'break in'. I have never fired a single round of high base ammo in any of my S12s.... and they run off of Winchester Universal. They all have a fairly low round count. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Ya, I never thought of that. Either way your arm is going to hurt... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Also, can someone direct me to a link or give some input on how to check the ports? I'm assuming it's the portion that adjusts the gas and has a "puck" inside? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) First make sure it's unloaded It's easy remove the gas adjustment nob by unscrewing it counter clockwise, remove the puck(just so it does not fall out). You may need to knock it out from the other side. Look in the end of gas tube with a flash light, you will see a hole between the gas tube and barrel. Inside this is 2,3 or 4 small holes. Use a bent paper clip to find how many there are. Then reassemble. There is a link but i can find it, I hope this helps. Edited June 7, 2010 by Rangerguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
btr 15 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Cheap winchester has a terrible rep with saiga's. For birdshot, try Federal bulkpack of at least 1 and 1/8 shot weight. I broke mine in with ~30 rounds of hibrass, doing it with 400-500 sounds... expensive. If it won't cycle federal on setting 2, contact the Cadiz and ask about the warranty, especially if you have only 2 gas ports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FRC64 2 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Hello all, I'm new to the forum and just recently bought a saiga 12 shotgun. I see that some of you have posted somethng about have issues with the gas system. I was wondering what issues that might be and how to identify it. The reason is I just recently shot about 100 rounds of Winchester field loads through it and had some big issues with the surefire mags I bought (mostly 12 rounder). He surefire mags performed poorly. I had quite a few misfeeds. When I changed the gas setting to check and see if it was the problem , the bolt wouldn't even cycle but the round would go off. I assume that is normal since that would be the setting for magnums and heavier loads. Anyway I don't have any more time to go into right now but any info given will be greatly appreciated. It sounds as if you already suspect your Surefire (Isn't the name alone a hoot...) magazines. I've run every type of mag available for the saiga-12 and now run nothing but factory mags. Try your factory mag and see if you have the same issues. When I hand cycle the action, eject a round from the chamber and bring back the action to just grab the next round, when I then release it, the next round feeds every time. What I'm getting at, is that, if the previous round ejects and you have a failure to feed, it usually is not a gas problem. When my Saigas get a hold of the next round and are not mechanically (magazine, foreign object, etc...) held up, they feed 100%. I also would not take a file, grinder or sandpaper to the internals unless you really know what you are doing. I've been involved with firearms for 30 years and wouldn't touch a FCG or bolt group myself. There is a pretty significant explosion going off less than a foot from my face and I'm not interested in experimenting. I've got a great gunsmith for anything other than accessory installation. I've acquired 4 Saiga-12s this year alone and I've 'broken in' every one of them the same way. I usually put at least two mags each of 00 and slugs through the Saiga I bring to the range each trip. After a few trips, I can cycle just about any 12 gauge round within reason (I never shoot cheap garbage through any of my guns). You don't need to put 400-500 rounds through it. Also, if you consider your Saiga to be even a small percentage "Home Defense" gun, it doesn't hurt to train with what you would use in that situation. Running those 3-4 mags of buck and slugs each trip is good to get you accustomed to the recoil and feel of those high power rounds and to be able to get follow up rounds on target. Let us know how things iron out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Well.... instead of wasting money on 400-500 rounds of high base ammo, why not just rack the slide violently 400-500 times? OR.... a hobby file set and some 400 grit sandpaper is a much faster and economical way to achieve 'break in'. I have never fired a single round of high base ammo in any of my S12s.... and they run off of Winchester Universal. They all have a fairly low round count. That is what I do. Clean it, lube it, and hand cycle in front of boob tube 4-500 times. Takes less than 8 min. If that makes your arm sore I believe I would not admit it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) Also, can someone direct me to a link or give some input on how to check the ports? I'm assuming it's the portion that adjusts the gas and has a "puck" inside? http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51183 Edited June 7, 2010 by Paulyski Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Well.... instead of wasting money on 400-500 rounds of high base ammo, why not just rack the slide violently 400-500 times? OR.... a hobby file set and some 400 grit sandpaper is a much faster and economical way to achieve 'break in'. I have never fired a single round of high base ammo in any of my S12s.... and they run off of Winchester Universal. They all have a fairly low round count. That is what I do. Clean it, lube it, and hand cycle in front of boob tube 4-500 times. Takes less than 8 min. If that makes your arm sore I believe I would not admit it. Every time I hear the "Fire x rounds of high brass through it for a good 'break-in'". I'm thinking "Why not just rack the slide voilently x number of times". I find it amazing that an idea so simple.... could be something that is actually employed by a professional. Sometimes the solution is far less expensive and complex than we may anticipate. I tear mine down to reciever and barrel, new or not, and go through them. I just like doing it. I never even held a S12 in my hands until February. I'm no pro, but I've always been good at working on things. Study the inner workings of the weapon and how the contact surfaces create drag on the action. The answers to all of your questions lie within the weapon. A little black Sharpie on the contact surfaces will tell you where to smooth or polish after cycling the action just a few times. BTW Hi Saigatech! Great minds think alike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FRC64 2 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Well.... instead of wasting money on 400-500 rounds of high base ammo, why not just rack the slide violently 400-500 times? OR.... a hobby file set and some 400 grit sandpaper is a much faster and economical way to achieve 'break in'. I have never fired a single round of high base ammo in any of my S12s.... and they run off of Winchester Universal. They all have a fairly low round count. That is what I do. Clean it, lube it, and hand cycle in front of boob tube 4-500 times. Takes less than 8 min. If that makes your arm sore I believe I would not admit it. Whatever works, just make sure to change arms every so often... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 I appreciate all the replies. I will try and go shoot the shotgun again this week after I check the gas ports. I have a 5 round magazine that is a factory mag, that was %100 reliable the last time I shot it. I noticed that on some other the FTF's the shell would get stuck on the portion of the gun just below the chamber, causing the shell to warp. That mostly happend with the 12 round mags, which I was thinking might be a spring issue in the mag. Another problem was that the bolt would not close all the way when a round was cycled and chambered. The bolt would come to that stopping point just prior to closing. I appreciate all the replies. I will try and go shoot the shotgun again this week after I check the gas ports. I have a 5 round magazine that is a factory mag, that was %100 reliable the last time I shot it. I noticed that on some other the FTF's the shell would get stuck on the portion of the gun just below the chamber, causing the shell to warp. That mostly happend with the 12 round mags, which I was thinking might be a spring issue in the mag. Another problem was that the bolt would not close all the way when a round was cycled and chambered. The bolt would come to that stopping point just prior to closing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Well.... instead of wasting money on 400-500 rounds of high base ammo, why not just rack the slide violently 400-500 times? OR.... a hobby file set and some 400 grit sandpaper is a much faster and economical way to achieve 'break in'. I have never fired a single round of high base ammo in any of my S12s.... and they run off of Winchester Universal. They all have a fairly low round count. That is what I do. Clean it, lube it, and hand cycle in front of boob tube 4-500 times. Takes less than 8 min. If that makes your arm sore I believe I would not admit it. Whatever works, just make sure to change arms every so often... Ha Ha Ha You funny guy....you make me laugh real haawd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Well.... instead of wasting money on 400-500 rounds of high base ammo, why not just rack the slide violently 400-500 times? OR.... a hobby file set and some 400 grit sandpaper is a much faster and economical way to achieve 'break in'. I have never fired a single round of high base ammo in any of my S12s.... and they run off of Winchester Universal. They all have a fairly low round count. That is what I do. Clean it, lube it, and hand cycle in front of boob tube 4-500 times. Takes less than 8 min. If that makes your arm sore I believe I would not admit it. Every time I hear the "Fire x rounds of high brass through it for a good 'break-in'". I'm thinking "Why not just rack the slide voilently x number of times". I find it amazing that an idea so simple.... could be something that is actually employed by a professional. Sometimes the solution is far less expensive and complex than we may anticipate. I tear mine down to reciever and barrel, new or not, and go through them. I just like doing it. I never even held a S12 in my hands until February. I'm no pro, but I've always been good at working on things. Study the inner workings of the weapon and how the contact surfaces create drag on the action. The answers to all of your questions lie within the weapon. A little black Sharpie on the contact surfaces will tell you where to smooth or polish after cycling the action just a few times. BTW Hi Saigatech! Great minds think alike Because then, when you load it up with high-brass HD rounds, and God forbid you ever need to shoot it, you are completely and totally surprised by the weapon actually doing this thing called "firing". Sure, break it in however you wish, I chose to shoot it because I actually enjoy shooting my weapons. I mean, that's the point of owning them... It's not like high-brass is all that expensive anyway, I could afford it and I made less than 30k last year, ammo prices are going down anyway... Ok, ok, I give this one to you, we all think that y'all are clever for cycling the action and saving money, when you could've saved the same amount of money by switching your car insurance to Geico but I digress... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted July 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 Sorry guys it has been awhile since I was able to shoot. I shot the gun last week and ran about 75 rounds of Winchester aa ammo through it and used up the ammo that was jamming on me. The gun cycled perfect without a single problem. I didn't get a chance to run the buckshot though due to the rain. I guess it just needed some lubrication and some rounds fired through it. All mags performed well. And I checked the ports and it appears that there is 3 ( 1 and then 2 side by side). Thx for the help! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Revolution 0 Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 I just gotta add here that paulyski's Avatar is very..........hypnotic ......Wish I new what she was saying! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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