The National Guard is not the Militia

[Bvamp 604]

http://www.rense.com/general65/armed.htm

 

I would paste it over, but its copyrighted. some interesting reading, and some very valid points.

[G O B 3,516]

Good article, we are the militia. It was the intent of the founding fathers that any army be volunteer only. AND volunteer for THAT war. This is to keep ambitious politicians from involving the USA in military adventurism. If the war is no longer popular, the soldiers can just go home (the origional term of enlistment was one(1) year! Stop loss is as anti- Americian as anything can possibly be!

 

G O B

[emclean 0]

legaly the netinal guard IS part of the militia, here is the fed. code about it.

 

Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, chapter 13, Sec. 311

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

The classes of the militia are -

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia

with the currend anti-descrimanition laws the max. age restriction and gender restriction would be removed if chalanged.

[Smiley_Guy 2]

It always seemed to me that the 'armed civilians' in the "well regulated militia" were the Police, who draw their authority from the States not the federal government. But then, I didn't start out to make it mean what I wanted it to.

[Bvamp 604]

i was taught that the militia is every able bodied male citizen.

[Gaddis 1,689]

I gotta agree with Bvamp here. Law Enforcement Officers (as in a true Police force) are a relatively modern phenomenon, I think the first true standing police force was enacted in the late 1800's early 1900's in New York City to patrol the Tri-Corners area of it? (bad mostly dirt-poor Irish immigrant neigborhood), I believe.

 

It sticks in my head because all of the fuss Teddy Roosevelt (before he became President) had figuring out what caliber the service pistol the officers would would carry would be.

 

Long after the Constitution was written and signed by the Founding Fathers anyway.

[G O B 3,516]

We are the militia.

 

G O B

[Smiley_Guy 2]

Are we "well regulated?"

[jon elia 0]

isn't that something you have to ask youself smiley?

 

its really how you define well regulated....lets see some defs and then we can figure out who this militia really is

[Tokageko 8]

Well regulated? No.

 

<RANT/>

That would require us having STANDARDS for ourselves as a people. There is a Civilian Marksmanship Program, but it seems to me to be under-used. Firearm safety, let alone marksmanship, are not taught in public schools. Physical fitness level among US citizens is declining. Not to mention that most people don't know how to take orders, or even have a sense of duty to their own country (which, to my thought, would make most of them unwilling to serve anyway). The militia can either be an active force within the country (as the National Gaurd SHOULD be) or an inactive pool from which soldiers can be drawn in times of need. Currently, we are niether.

 

Our country relies on an essentially mercenary armed force to do everything. It's no longer a calling to be a soldier, it's a job. It's not a sense of duty to one's country, it's the monetary incentives. The Military of the USA used to be something people WANTED to be part of. Now, it something that they are being BEGGED to be part of. Sure, there were incentives to join the military before, but it wasn't just money to go to college. It was a place to stay and food to eat. It was training that anyone of reasonable health could get without going through the apprenticeship programs of exclusive trade guilds. It was a chance to see the rest of the world. It was respect given by the rest of the populace to those who EARNED the right for everyone else to sleep well at night. Ideally... it was because serving your country was the right thing to do. It was a feeling that YOU had made America a better country for what you had done.

 

.... <sigh>

 

</RANT>

 

So, that's my contribution. Have a nice day everyone.

[Wolverine 10,360]

I agree with Tokageko. Serving your country was once a respected duty but now due to political correctness it is a job where you can learn a trade or do 20 years and get a pension and free medical plan.

 

With the mindset of youth today we would have internal chaos if we enacted conscription again short of a blatant attack like 9/11 that creates a sense of unity, patriotism, and nationalism.

 

Not only is the military having problems hitting their recruiting number but now they are paying hefty bonues for re-enlistment in many classifications. Yesterday a friend told me her daughter who is in Iraq took the bonus offer for six more months in the sandbox.

 

The military used to turn boys into men. Now it turns out of wedlock babies.

 

 

Wolverine

[G O B 3,516]

To be well regulated --get plenty of fiber in your diet!

 

Seriosly, military enlistment was meant to be voluntary with SHORT time commitments. The contenintal army had 1 year or shorter contracts, and the militia was true volunteer-no contract serve as you will. This was the founding fathers answer to military adventuerism. If the war was not supported by the people-noone would be there for it. That is what made us CITIZEN soldiers, it is the difference between being RULED and being GOVERNED!

 

( My 2 cents worth of rant!)

 

G O B

[Bvamp 604]

if there ever came a time where the USA was invaded, it is the requirement of the male citizenship that are of age to take up arms and report for duty. that is what my understanding of it all is, and that is why we have guns in the first place.

[Guest Guest]

Hmm... Lots to think about.

 

Tokageko, There have always been conscripts. There have always been people who avioded service. Be careful about being too "remember when" about times before we were born. The advent of television coverage of war changed how the military is percieved. I imagine our time is not that different than those before us. Soldiers come primarily from the lower end of the economic spectrum and, of course, idealists.

 

After the attack we suffered a few years ago patriotism was running high. Perhaps the young potential volunteers have become cynical since then and mistrust the government's methods and motivations.

 

Sure we're fat and lazy. We're encouraged to focus on our materialistic self interest. We got it better than anybody but we whine... OK, starting to rant there. Next I was going to tell you about religion being the opiate of the masses!

[Bvamp 604]

hello guest - interesting point. you should have gone into the religeon thing. I can sum it up for you right now, actually.

 

god does not speak to men. men hear things in thier heads. some of those men are kind, and know there is a better way to be than to be animals running in the desert or in the woods or whatever, with no law, and no respect for the king or other rulers' laws. how does one change that? put a fear of god into them. then they are afraid of something far worse (however fabricated), ALL the time. that is how you make men obey. nothing but religeon worked EVER.

 

the fact that the main religeons in the world ALL state the same basic ideas and beliefs makes the other fact that men kill over what you call god or how you worhsip him a terrible and needless waste.

 

BUT - heres the clincher folks....if men never killed another man in war or by other actions, would there even BE any air left on the planet today? how about food? i highly doubt it.

 

anyway, with that aside, i trust my safety to noone. noone has yet proven that they are able to protect me and serve my best interests. so I will keep guns. trusting ill be safe is fucking stupidity. the world is not a nice place, and it gets worse every damn day.

[Smiley_Guy 2]

<edited spelling>

 

Sorry, I was "Guest" and was on the Girl Friend's computer and thought I was logged in. The GF has kept me busy and away from the board, but I do SO miss bickering with you folks...

 

Men that hear voices need psyciatric attention. Religion is a tool used to exert control over people. What religion encourages the spiritual and scientific search for Truth? Don't they rather want to Tell you the true nature of the world? Alice (in wonderland) believed one impossible thing every day... Religion says "If you have faith as much as a mustard seed" you'll think the mountain went away. I'm not saying I know the true nature of life-the universe-everything. I'm saying be wary of anyone that wants to tell you They do.

 

All that being said... There was no "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance when US volunteers went to fight the fascists in Spain just before WWII. We call out for people to be Patriotic while we keep prisioners in Cuba for no other reason than to avoid US and international law.

 

Ants live in peace with ants in thier own colony because it's in thier best interest. Scorpions don't kill for fun. Bears aren't canibals. Wolves don't build rape camps. If sharks have a religion they don't have the Spanish inquisition, suicide bombers, or...

 

Life is now what it always was. The conflict between simple self interest and the greater good of the species. We know we should care for the infants the sick, and the old. We know talking is better for us than killing. We rationalize too much for our own good

Edited June 6, 2005 by Smiley_Guy

[billofthenorth 0]

I agree that the Guard is PART of the Militia. At some time (and I don't have the reference) the Supreme court ruled something to the effect that all males or citizens that can legally own firearms constitutes the general militia, in effect we are all in the militia by default.

 

Look in most good dictionaries and you'll see that one of the definitions of the word 'regulate' is: to maintain something (a clock, digestion etc) in proper working or functioning order. So I think the 2nd amendment should be read as "A properly functioning militia being necessary to the security of a free state.....

 

Also look at Article 1 section 8 of the Constitution where it gives congress power...

 

To provide for calling forth the militia...

 

To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States...

 

This shows that clearly congress doesn't need the second amendment to have authority to arm or control the militia, that what the 2nd amendment refers to is an individual right and it's importance to a free nation.

 

Article 1 section 8 refers to "such Part of them as may be employed in the service..." clearly recognizes the individual nature of the militia. As a regular organization would be an "IT"and as a standing creation of congress IT would always be in the service of the gov't whereas private citizens, "THEM" are not, and the language of the constitution makes it clear that not all of the Militia will be in gov't service all the time. A militiaman not in the service of the gov't is a private citizen.

Edited June 14, 2005 by billofthenorth

[emclean 0]

the guard is part of the miliata, the organized portion, and we (between the age of 17 and 45) are the unorganized militia, per fediral code, what is so hard about this?

[Bravo 26 2]

the guard is part of the miliata, the organized portion, and we (between the age of 17 and 45) are the unorganized militia, per fediral code, what is so hard about this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

/agree. long rant follows.....

 

I was in the US Army for 9 1/2 years. Enlisted in 1993 for an 8 year term, and was scheduled to be out (ETS) in December of 2001. In September, a bunch of assholes flew some planes into the NY skyline, and I got the call. I was "retained for emergency defense" effective immediately. No getting out for me untill we were done. I remember President Bush's address to the nation that month, and then I remember his address to the military only. I served another 1.5 years, and was released 25 June of 2003. Lots of people bitched, some even said "I'm not going" but the vast majority shut the fuck up and did thier job, and came home when we were done. Because we were soldiers, and that's what soldiers do. Some didnt come home at all, but that's war. My point is this: The stop loss needs to be done sometimes. But it must be justified. The militia is an integral part of our defense, and is multi-functional, and multi-faceted. The most obvious form is the national guard, and the arguement can be made for the police.

But, i believe that when the founding fathers wrote up this clause, this contingency, they had the same thing in mind. When you fuck with the USA, everyody comes together, sacrifices thier personal lives and comforts, KICKS THE DOG SHIT out of any and all aggressors, and goes back to thier lives. everyone is supposed to help, civilians, full time military, peace officers, Kalifornians, everybody... If we were to one day restore that type of mentality to our vast majority of Sheeple out there in middle america, and the left coast, we would once again be the unstoppable juggernought we were in my Grandfather's day. Somebody is gonna be the biggest kid on the block. I want it to be us.

 

I hope that we wake up soon, cause the Tangos *ARE* watching, and waiting. and it may be us, the militia, the ones who care and love this nation who have to step in the way, and issue the smackdown.

 

end rant. Bravo 26 out

[DHunter 1]

Well stated Bravo.

Anyone who is able to do anything which contributes to the defense of this country in times of need or looks after their neighbors in times of emegency or disaster IS the militia. We are ALL the militia.

 

BTW, thanks for your service to the country.