Investing in silver any ideas?

[Spike71 1]

OK.. I have all the fireams, ammo, knives, boat, pre 1975 car, and survival gear to have at least a decent chance to survive what ever the future has for me. Lately I have been looking into and investing in .999 fine silver coins 1 troy ounce every payday. If I had the extra money I would be buying gold but all O can afford right now is to invest in 1 to 2 troy ounces of .999 fine silver coins every 2 weeks.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else has anything to say positive or negative about invetsing in Silver in our current economy? I plan to save up to and sell my silver coins for a gold when I have enough.

 

Also I heard that buying junk silver or 90% and under pure would be a good idea also?

[Vicarious_Lee 84]

My advice (and I am in no way, shape, or form any kind of investor or analyst): Don't.

 

The precious metals market is saturated and is in an artificial bubble. Seeing G. Gordon Liddy and Steve Wilkos (that old bald body guard of Jerry Springer's) hawking silver and gold all over daytime TV reminds me of the late-1990's tech stock bubble whereby Ana Kournikova and NFL linebackers were hawking tech-based mutual funds. Shit's way inflated over-the-top right now. Now is NOT the time.

 

In fact, no matter what you do in life, or what you do or don't know about investing, it's never an unsafe strategy to NOT invest in whatever it is people are telling you to invest in on daytime TV.

 

JIMHO. I want silver and gold right now. Badly. TV is telling me as I read between the lines that it is a fool's market right now.

[csspecs 1,987]

My opinion... You can't eat silver. Nor can anyone else, so in a true survival situation whats it really worth?

[yakdung 2,926]

It looks like it hasn't done so well against the S&P 500 index since the beginning of the year. I wouldn't touch gold or silver in my view.

 

 

Yakdung

[essohbe 47]

Why exactly? For trade or preservation?

 

Keep in mind that Silver, Gold, & other precious metals are for preserving wealth. They don't necessarily go up in value, the currency simply drops compared to it as a standard. If you want to preserve what you have, that means you can buy some now but if the currency changes you're not getting anything "more" for it, you just got what it is worth realtive to the standard for the new currency.

 

Small pieces are tradable if SHTF but again, the value and worth of anything is only what people hold for it. Silver has antibacterial or viral (I forget) properties and will probably always have some kind of value. Gold is the best conductor of electricity at room temp and it never rusts. Most anything else has worth based on industrial use that may not always be needed.

 

So people should keep in mind a reason why.

 

I'd buy toilet paper, cigarettes, lighters, and ammunition if you want "money."

I'd buy more silver if you want to preserve what you have already, if that is that you expect the U.S. dollar to be exchanged for something else in the future

 

For 'totes.

[Paulyski 2,227]

With our massive debt to China, we're devaluing our currency & Bernanke's got the presses running full bore. Our currency's only going to drop more. We've done it before.

Our first revolutionary currency was worthless paper "backed" by Spanish silver when it actually wasn't

I'd suggest precious metals by all means, but not Numismatic value. Bullion only. In a safe deposit box.

[GregM1 241]

i bought into silver about 5 years ago when it was at 7$ per ounce. I split it between bullion and currency coin. I would recommend buying some coin as collectible silver. Buy from a few financially strong countries and preferably graded coins (by a well established firm) only. Not only is it silver but also currency and retains higher value. I wouldn't think now is the best time to invest since it is the highest I have ever seen. it is a good idea to keep 10% of your finances in silver/gold/plat for security purposes. it has been valued for 1000 years. it will still be worth something later too.

[Heath_h49008 442]

Hit silver now... and gold... and palladium... In hand, not as an ETF.

 

There is no bubble. Quantitative easing is money printing. That means inflation... more than we have ever had in this country.

 

I buy a few oz every payday as well. I just got half a dozen oz when it dipped to 26.95 last week. It has already rebounded to 28.50.

 

Buy bullion, at spot. DO NOT BUY COINS FOR NUMISMATIC VALUE. That is the scam these jackasses are hawking on TV and radio. You pay WAY over spot, for "collectability" that doesn't exist, and have to sell below spot when you dump them due to refining costs.

[Koljec 37]

[raleighsaiga 81]

Does anyone recommending buying hard silver know someone who actually bought low and sold high? Sorry, but the bid/ask spread on low volume, retail precious metals is HUGE. You need a massive rise in price just to sell at the same price as you bought, and you will find that selling is much, much harder than buying unless you are willing to bend over and take it up the chute.

 

If you are worried about devaluing your portfolio, why would you buy something that devalues it the second you bought it? There are plenty of ways to protect yourself from inflation/currency devaluation that have much, much greater liquidity.

 

Bottom line, if you see commercials pushing something, somebody is making a ton of money on each transaction- money that basically is pulled straight from your net worth and into theirs.

 

ETA: Should TEOTWAWKI arrive, items and skills necessary to daily life will be MUCH more valuable for trading than shiny metal.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Raleigh Saiga

[yakdung 2,926]

Does anyone recommending buying hard silver know someone who actually bought low and sold high? Sorry, but the bid/ask spread on low volume, retail precious metals is HUGE. You need a massive rise in price just to sell at the same price as you bought, and you will find that selling is much, much harder than buying unless you are willing to bend over and take it up the chute.

 

If you are worried about devaluing your portfolio, why would you buy something that devalues it the second you bought it? There are plenty of ways to protect yourself from inflation/currency devaluation that have much, much greater liquidity.

 

Bottom line, if you see commercials pushing something, somebody is making a ton of money on each transaction- money that basically is pulled straight from your net worth and into theirs.

 

ETA: Should TEOTWAWKI arrive, items and skills necessary to daily life will be MUCH more valuable for trading than shiny metal.

 

 

 

Smart man. Gold and silver is a suckers game at these levels. Gold is a bubble waiting to pop. Never follow the herd.

 

Yakdung

Edited February 3, 2011 by yakdung

[Shandlanos 1,470]

It's good to have some, not so great to buy it right now.

 

If you really want to own precious metal, the best way to go is junk silver - coins produced by a trusted world government, that have no numismatic worth, only their value in silver. In the US, the most readily traded form of junk silver is old silver dollar coins, half dollars, quarters and dimes. These are all (with the exception of very old coins that have great numismatic value, and modern coins produced purely for sale as bullion) 90% pure silver, and that content is guaranteed by the US government. If you want to sell bullion, it will need to be assayed. To sell silver US currency, no assay is necessary.

 

Silver war nickels (1942-1945) are another way to go - they are only 35% silver, and they can often be found for less than their value in silver - I have even pulled a few hundred from circulation. These are less easily liquidated, as they are less recognizable as silver - you can identify them by the mint mark over Monticello on the reverse.

 

Also, junk silver is fun. Having a pile of silver to play with is just a good time - get yourself an eyepatch and a treasure chest to bring your childhood back to life.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Anytime there is a question or post like this there is no shortage of naysayers that jump on to tell you that gold & silver are a fools game. I suggested folks seriously consider investing in gold in December 2008 and was lambasted by the naysayers. Like you, I found that I could only use so much ammo, guns, survivalist supplies. Gold was $776.00 ounce at the time. Gold is now at $1,332.00 ounce. The advance in silver has been even better. You only have to look at the continuing devaluation of the dollar to make a decision. Gold has outperformed the S&P from 2000 - 2010. Gold has risen 72% since December 2008. As has been pointed out your investment remains 1 ounce of gold and only reflects the devaluation of the dollar. Draw your own conclusions and ignore those with no skin oin the game.

 

1911

[GregM1 241]

Does anyone recommending buying hard silver know someone who actually bought low and sold high? Sorry, but the bid/ask spread on low volume, retail precious metals is HUGE. You need a massive rise in price just to sell at the same price as you bought, and you will find that selling is much, much harder than buying unless you are willing to bend over and take it up the chute.

 

 

me... i bought in heavy at 7$/ounce and sold 2 years later at 21/ounce. Sold just enough to cover the investment costs of all that was left. I dont see many people make out like that though.

 

 

I agree that shit pawned on TV is a joke. Probably less than 1/10th the "value" they put on the coin is precious metal.

 

When talking about coin investment I was referring to actualy country currency such as british pounds made of silver. if you spend it, its worth 1 pound, but the silver content is higher so its actually worth more. So even if silver prices drop, the british pound price may stay up. this will hold the value and you wont take a large loss if silver drops to 10/ounce again.

Edited February 3, 2011 by GregM1

[bigcec1 72]

This reminds me of a customer I have he posted signs for buying silver quarters for 1.25 each today each coin is roughly worth 5.15 each I asked him how he was doing with it within a mo. he has gotten about 600 coins so he has roughly 750$ in and value at about 3090$ not a bad deal I've always been interested in silver in my job I come accross alot of silver quarters but i would not pay top dollar for silver look into junk coins that people are selling or put up a sign buying silver quarters every where hehe

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

If SHTF is the purpose, I read an article on this forum written by a guy in South America that went through it and he stated that 14k+ jewelry was worth its weight against pure bullion in a traders market. You can get cheap 14k+ stuff all day if you are hedging bets against the collapse of society.

 

As stated before, bullion is a hedge against inflation. 1911's post on values show what our currency is doing. $1 ain't worth what it used to be - 41% loss since 2008 if using a gold standard.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

This reminds me of a customer I have he posted signs for buying silver quarters for 1.25 each today each coin is roughly worth 5.15 each I asked him how he was doing with it within a mo. he has gotten about 600 coins so he has roughly 750$ in and value at about 3090$ not a bad deal I've always been interested in silver in my job I come accross alot of silver quarters but i would not pay top dollar for silver look into junk coins that people are selling or put up a sign buying silver quarters every where hehe

 

If I remember correctly, only the government can legally melt that into bullion as it is technically still government property and you would be defacing it.

[GregM1 241]

with the current value of copper, the weight of copper (95%) in a penny is worth about .03 cents. I got a lot of pennies too.

 

http://www.coinflation.com/is_it_illegal_to_melt_coins.html

Edited February 3, 2011 by GregM1

[raleighsaiga 81]

Does anyone recommending buying hard silver know someone who actually bought low and sold high? Sorry, but the bid/ask spread on low volume, retail precious metals is HUGE. You need a massive rise in price just to sell at the same price as you bought, and you will find that selling is much, much harder than buying unless you are willing to bend over and take it up the chute.

 

 

me... i bought in heavy at 7$/ounce and sold 2 years later at 21/ounce. Sold just enough to cover the investment costs of all that was left. I dont see many people make out like that though.

 

Where did you sell it? How many ounces was in your position? What was the spot price of silver when you bought at $7/ounce and what was the spot price of silver when you sold at $21/ounce?

[GregM1 241]

Does anyone recommending buying hard silver know someone who actually bought low and sold high? Sorry, but the bid/ask spread on low volume, retail precious metals is HUGE. You need a massive rise in price just to sell at the same price as you bought, and you will find that selling is much, much harder than buying unless you are willing to bend over and take it up the chute.

 

 

me... i bought in heavy at 7$/ounce and sold 2 years later at 21/ounce. Sold just enough to cover the investment costs of all that was left. I dont see many people make out like that though.

 

Where did you sell it? How many ounces was in your position? What was the spot price of silver when you bought at $7/ounce and what was the spot price of silver when you sold at $21/ounce?

 

i sell at coin shops first. pawn shops second. do not use the online companies or tv buyers. they will always pay less. coin shops usualy buy at bullion spot price. pawn shops and others pay a percentage of that value. Ebay used to be a good place to sell also. They take to much off the top now in my opinion. they are a good place to buy at though. can get bulk rate at a little lower than spot too.

 

American Eagles are great investment. coin shops sell them at current silver value and buy at current silver value. they are also worth 1US$.

 

i wont state my ounces, but when I sold, the coin shop (which is no longer there due to expanding interstate) said they were willing to buy up to 10,000 silver rounds or bars that day. I sold 1/3 of the initial investment and covered the other 2/3.

 

spot price when i bought in was around 6.50-7.50 and when i sold was averageing 21. - 21.50

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

with the current value of copper, the weight of copper (95%) in a penny is worth about .03 cents. I got a lot of pennies too.

 

http://www.coinflati...melt_coins.html

 

Notice that is true only of pennies minted prior to 1982. In 1982 they began to make pennies out of 97.5% zinc. The govt realizes what most folks don't and has all along.

 

1911

[volkov 318]

in a SHTF situation I'd think ammo is gold. I'd recommend common calibers. Also maybe a few mosin nagants and TT-33s.. Anyone who wants to defend themselves or hunt would be very anxious to trade and you could have a decent (and fun) stockpile for relatively little.

 

Another good one is gas. Everytime something goes wrong people run the gas stations dry at huge premiums... and if something really went wrong a week or more in having a stockpile of gas would be very beneficial.

 

And finally liquor. Since the beginning of history people have been getting trashed to celebrate or to comfort when things look bad. You can count on a handle of pretty much anything high in alchohal being worth a lot if society went down.

 

 

Problem with the top two is they both have little investment value outside of a SHTF situation so not an investment I'm interested in (maybe the TTs and MNs do but I'm not sure). But I may be on to something with liquor.. if you go with stuff that gets more valuable as it ages.... hmmm

 

 

 

edit: forgot tobacco.. woops. Think it's pretty self explanatory though.

Edited February 3, 2011 by volkov

[Heath_h49008 442]

Does anyone recommending buying hard silver know someone who actually bought low and sold high? Sorry, but the bid/ask spread on low volume, retail precious metals is HUGE. You need a massive rise in price just to sell at the same price as you bought, and you will find that selling is much, much harder than buying unless you are willing to bend over and take it up the chute.

 

If you are worried about devaluing your portfolio, why would you buy something that devalues it the second you bought it? There are plenty of ways to protect yourself from inflation/currency devaluation that have much, much greater liquidity.

 

Bottom line, if you see commercials pushing something, somebody is making a ton of money on each transaction- money that basically is pulled straight from your net worth and into theirs.

 

ETA: Should TEOTWAWKI arrive, items and skills necessary to daily life will be MUCH more valuable for trading than shiny metal.

 

Yeah, my best friend and I made quite a bit 3 years ago when silver was on a tear WITHOUT the massive money printing. We sold at $20/oz and the top of the market was $21. March of '08.

 

If you think we are going to be dealing with some post apocalyptic TEOTWAWKI where gold and silver bars are worth less than a can of beans, you need to come back to reality.

 

We are living in the economic equivelent of 1920's Germany. The Fed is printing money. That means more little paper things for every REAL thing. When the dollar bubble bursts, and the trillions we have printed become worthless in the worst case, or simply worth far less AS THEY INTEND. Your land (MINUS THE REAL ESTATE BUBBLE), your hard currency, and your overseas investments will still retain value. How much will depend on how bad the panic is. More panic, even greater gains in gold and silver.

[6500rpm 670]

Did this whole thread start over the prediction and associated video that's been circulating since December about the huge crash that's "going" to happen this year when the world bails on using the USD as the standard world currency? Just curious, I watched it and it was interesting, in the end it looks like a huge add to invest with a certain someones company and there was a statement in that video that silver has always outperformed gold with and cost less.

 

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1011PSIENDVD/WPSILC12/PR

 

Unless you're extremely rich and plan on buying a shitload, or converting over all your stocks etc into a metal I think it's just something else to add to your retirement plan. As far as SHTF, I'd rather have it safe in my possession and not in a bank box if things really go bad. In that event you and the country has to come out the other side before most are going to give a shit. SHTF to me means survival on a daily basis, not investment. I made a ton and lost a ton in the Tech bubble so I'm one of the last to give advice, but since then I typically have a very diverse investment plan-don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Edited February 3, 2011 by 6500rpm

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

If you go back to freshman economics, whatever has inelastic demand is good to invest in with regards to having it on-hand in case of huge price spikes. Inelastic means whatever price you put on it, the demand will stay the same.

 

Gas/energy, drugs, tobacco, alcohol, guns & ammo are excellent examples. That is maybe why the government gets about 1/3 to 1/2 off the top of these items that are legal!

 

Gold and precious metals will always have some value due to their limited supply and their uses in industry. All the gold so far discovered on Earth would not fill an Olympic sized swimming pool. It is also a universal sign of wealth throughout human history.

Edited February 3, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer

[Heath_h49008 442]

Nope, just simple economics.

 

When more money is printed, the value goes down.

 

Check out the Peter Schiff books... or just watch him on youtube. He's the guy who predicted the crash and why it happened, and who it happened to. That's the fastest way to come up to speed.

 

If you think the US$ is safe as a currency, you might want to look into China selling bonds. They have 3+ Trillion in reserves, but feel the need to sell bonds? Only if they have no faith in their holdings, or plan on becoming a reserve currency and need the number of yuan that bond sales would provide for.

 

It's not really complex.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

When the SHTF what is currently considered valuable goes out the window. What will become valuable? No can know for sure, to many variables. But I would think a source of energy, guns, ammo, food and clean water, would all beat out anything like gold or silver.

[Heath_h49008 442]

But the world is not going to collapse into Max Max land where "juice" and ammo are the dearest of assets. We might at worst see 1930's Germany or current day Zimbabwe, where our money becomes worthless paper, and the government locks down the exchange rates with an eye to protecting the same institutions that have created the problem.

 

We had a dot.com bubble... it took almost 8 years to pop. We then created a housing bubble... it popped in 6.. we then inflated a dollar bubble. It will really not be fun to see an inflationary depression when this one pops.

 

The same root issue is at the heart of this. Low interest rates and printed money. Look at the ratio of gold or silver to oil... and then the price of those in dollars. The difference is cash was printed and handed out to the bankers and politicians, and a little bit of your wealth was stolen. If you had one dollar in 1913, it has now lost 93% of its value. Where did that wealth go?

 

It's a simple issue.

[ktcm7271 999]

Some quick facts for you.

 

1. Precious metals have out performed most stock investments over the past 5 years.

 

2. Silver has out performed gold.

 

3. Silver lost a lot of it's value when paper photos were being replaced with digital. But it is crucial for future technologies like solar panels and batteries.

 

4. Precious metals are directly tied to the value of the dollar. If they go up, the dollar is going down. In 1957, a man could earn $4.00/hour and afford a mortgage, stay at home wife, 2 kids, 2 vacations/year, and a new car every 5-10 years. What would that take today? If you think the world governments, central banks and free markets will allow a return to that level of currency value, then stay away from metals. Given the modern credit based economies, outsourced manufacturing, and off the charts money printing, that scenerio is unlikely.

 

5. In the early 1960's, gas was about $0.35/gallon. Right now, 3 pre-1964 dimes and a 1942-1945 nickel are worth just under $8.00 melt value.

 

6. Pay no attention to the price of metals, they will always purchase the same amount of goods. If silver tanks to $12.00/ounce, that means that things are going very well and your dollar's value just went way up. If it hits $50.00/ounce, the dollar is devalued below toilet paper. Spot price means nothing. Ask price and mark up are what you need to look at. Never go above 10% over spot when buying. Never go below spot when selling.

 

7. If you want to invest for profit, buy silver and gold mining stocks, but make sure they have very little hedged and the bulk of their mines are in stable regions-avoid Mexico mines for now. There are a lot of good ones.

 

8. China and India are buying tonnes of silver/gold to hedge the effects of our out of control Fed. That will continue for years to come.

 

9. JP Morgan is under investigation for market manipulation of silver right now. If we've learned anything, they'll get a mild slap and continue with little effect.

 

10. Go to www.coinflation.com and www.zerohedge.com every day and do your home work and you will do fine in metals.

 

11. Yard sales, flea markets, and ebay are great places to buy if you have the time to root around. Northwest Territorial Mint is a great on line place to buy. I've got a few 100 ounce bars from them.

 

12. Buying just a few ounces every pay day is always a great plan.

 

Hope that helped, metals is one of my hobbies, and I have a lot of time researching invested in it.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

 

6. Pay no attention to the price of metals, they will always purchase the same amount of goods. If silver tanks to $12.00/ounce, that means that things are going very well and your dollar's value just went way up. If it hits $50.00/ounce, the dollar is devalued below toilet paper. Spot price means nothing. Ask price and mark up are what you need to look at. Never go above 10% over spot when buying. Never go below spot when selling.

 

 

That is a gross exaggeration and not supported by fact - they will not always purchase the same amount of goods. While precious metal values are certainly one way of tracking our dollar as it goes down the shitter, that absolute statement doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Precious metals are bought and sold on the open market, hence subject to supply and demand like any other object bought and sold on the open market - as such it will rise and fall in value relative to other commodities, and like other commodities it is subject to price manipulation. This has happened before - there were a couple of brothers sentenced to long prison sentences for attempting to unlawfully corner the silver market a few decades ago.

 

To use a common gas station commodity as a crude example - in 2005, when silver was at about $6.50 an ounce, I could buy a bottle of Mountain Dew at local gas stations for $1.29. That ounce of silver would buy me about five bottles of Mountain Dew. Silver spot price as of this post is just over $29 an ounce, and my local gas stations sell that same bottle of Mountain Dew for $1.69 - that same ounce of silver will now buy me seventeen bottles of Mountain Dew from the gas station.

 

Commodities rise and fall based on supply and demand - since we do not have fixed values for precious metals as we used to, the relative values of precious metals will rise and fall as the market dictates. If our currency was still pegged to the gold standard, your statement would be a little closer to accurate.