svn43075 0 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Hi, I was recently told at the gun range the drum magazines or anything that holds more than 5 rounds for the saiga 12 makes it illegal because it wouldn't be a sporting rifle anymore. Doesn't really make sense, since these magazines are available everywhere for the saiga 12 for the last few years. I've tried calling ATF and they're "referring" me to someone else who did not answer (304-616-4500 is number I was told to call by a dealer if anyone is curious for their own questions). Just wanted to check with the saiga community to see what the laws on the saiga 12 drums were ? I've heard and read all kinds of things, but did not find anything specific on the legalities of the saiga drum magazines. What about regular magazines that hold over 10 rounds (one of mines holds 13rds), are those legal ? or are any capacity magazine "for sure" legal on the saiga as long as its not drum-mags ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Illegal for hunting only. I shoot my Saiga12 with a 20 rnd drum at a range with no problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
echoside190 127 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 They my be referring to the 922r compliance laws. If you don't have enough US made parts on the S12 then it would be illegal to use high cap mags. If you have it converted and compliant and everything, you're good to go for drums and any high cap mag for your shooting pleasure. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
svn43075 0 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Thats what I was thinking. I guess I'll confirm it when I get in touch with ATF themselves and ask. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rockina 60 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just proves how much mis-information is out there. Go to another range. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 The range I go to frowns on drums as the guys doing S-12 mag dumps are pretty hard to ignore. But that doesn't make them illegal Heck man, you live in Texas... just about everything's still legal there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Are you one of those transplants from New York ? This is Texas the state where everyone on the planet seems to be moving. There are a lot of idiots and know it all commandos working at gun ranges these days. The shooting range in the Addicks Reservoir comes to mind. Drums are not illegal to own and use. Hunting that's another story. Be safe, Yakdung 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 In order to answer your question I must first know if you have modified the weapon in any way, I'll need to know how you've modified it, and where the parts came from (country of origin). The reason for this is 922r, which basically says that once you change the weapon from "sporting" configuration it can have no more than ten major imported parts. There is a list of the parts that count but basically if you have changed four of your parts from foreign to USA parts you should be good as long as those parts are: butt-stock fore-grip magazine (counts as three) Fire control group (counts as three) threaded muzzle device So, if you've converted the weapon, you're good. If you haven't converted the weapon, and have failed to change it in any way, then YES, the drum is illegal in YOUR weapon. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
texasbagman 0 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 The large capacity mags, or drums, are not illegal to use for hunting in general in Texas. They are illegal to use to hunt migratory game birds though. But so are the 5 round mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Basically the guy was right, if you slap a drum on a factory sporter saiga 12 it is illegal. BUT, if you switch more parts to US made, then you are go. It would not be a sporter type if you use a drum without any other parts changed. Just convert it then you can use drums no problem as long as you use enough US parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glennhmd 23 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 The range I go to frowns on drums as the guys doing S-12 mag dumps are pretty hard to ignore. But that doesn't make them illegal i'm sure they're just green with envy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
svn43075 0 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 In order to answer your question I must first know if you have modified the weapon in any way, I'll need to know how you've modified it, and where the parts came from (country of origin). The reason for this is 922r, which basically says that once you change the weapon from "sporting" configuration it can have no more than ten major imported parts. There is a list of the parts that count but basically if you have changed four of your parts from foreign to USA parts you should be good as long as those parts are: butt-stock fore-grip magazine (counts as three) Fire control group (counts as three) threaded muzzle device So, if you've converted the weapon, you're good. If you haven't converted the weapon, and have failed to change it in any way, then YES, the drum is illegal in YOUR weapon. I have the following mods: 1.) UTG handguard rail system (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Saiga-12-Tactical-Quad-System/dp/B002TUSRMC) 2.) Tac 47 auto gas plug 3.) Kings armory gas puck 4.) Tapco collapsible 6-position buttstock and pistol grip - so I'm guessing my is 922r compliant than ? - Also, to update on calling ATF, these were their exact words: "I have not heard anything that would otherwise make the drum magazines illegal". I think the people at the range were talking about the 922r compliance issue then when they said the drum mags might be illegal. Yes, i LOVE Texas...we're still free down here...for the most part =). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Keep in mind that the gas plug does not count. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 The 304-616-4500 phone # is to ATF's Firearms Import Branch, they're not who you want to talk to anyway. I would *assume* that the range yahoos are talking about 922r compliance, which is a right pain getting good information. Here are a couple links to 922r Calculators: http://jobson.us/922r/ and http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) What is the cut off capacity for magazines to exclude them from the sporting configuration? I though I read that it only applied if "pistol type grip protrudes conspicuously below the receiver" under 922r subsection...ofcourse I'm not a lawyer and am probably wrong. I'm only curious because I've been holding out on converting. What I do know is that the local range won't let me use my saiga for skeet, no matter what configuration or magazine, those pussies! (Oh I too am in Texas, and yea most everything is legal here) Edited April 7, 2011 by poolingmyignorance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THEMRMITCH 3 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 That's why I stick to my own 140 yard range. It's open for anything I want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Great idea MrMitch, i'd like to do some drum dumps, how early can i show up?!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Yakdung wrote: "There are a lot of idiots and know it all commandos working at gun ranges these days. The shooting range in the Addicks Reservoir comes to mind." Just happens to be where I've had a (family) membership for the last few years...They certainly are full of themselves, to be sure. But to be objective, they have had their hands full safety-wise with some real doozies lately...Probably the same with most public ranges. Respectfully, -guido Are you one of those transplants from New York ? This is Texas the state where everyone on the planet seems to be moving. There are a lot of idiots and know it all commandos working at gun ranges these days. The shooting range in the Addicks Reservoir comes to mind. Drums are not illegal to own and use. Hunting that's another story. Be safe, Yakdung 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Ranges do have an abundance of folks who think they know it all, no argument. On the other hand I went to a local outdoor range and was told I could not have more than one rifle on the firing line at any given time and I was limited to 3 rounds in the magazine. I spoke witht he owner and he explained that the week prior they had 3 incidents. One guy was shooting a .300 mag and used the wrong cartridge which resulted in exploding his rifle. The bolt blew out the back and took off half his face and they still hadn't found the barrel. The following day some kid had bought an AK variant at a gun show. Apparently someone had glued the firing pin forward and it went full auto with a thirty round magazine. The kid told him he almost three it down to get rid of it as he was scared. Two days later a fellow on the pistol range was checking his 3 pistols by putting his hand over the muzzzle, pushing back, and checking if they werre loaded. His finger was on the trigger and he blew a hole in his hand. The owner was definately shaken up and trying to make more rules to keep his clients safe. The idiots at ranges are not limited to those behind the counter. I had to abide by his one gun rule but I was firing full mags and he knew it. Unknown customers at public gun ranges sometimes have to kept on a short leash I suppose. Wish I had 40 acres to make my own range. 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Razr 23 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have the following mods: 1.) UTG handguard rail system (http://www.amazon.co...m/dp/B002TUSRMC) 2.) Tac 47 auto gas plug 3.) Kings armory gas puck 4.) Tapco collapsible 6-position buttstock and pistol grip - so I'm guessing my is 922r compliant than ? - Also, to update on calling ATF, these were their exact words: "I have not heard anything that would otherwise make the drum magazines illegal". I think the people at the range were talking about the 922r compliance issue then when they said the drum mags might be illegal. Yes, i LOVE Texas...we're still free down here...for the most part =). The UTG handguard you have is model MNT-HGSG12 which is not USA made. -1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 My gun range encourages fun, including Drun Dumps and Full-Auto's. After all....You are at a Shooting Range, not a flippin' library!! I find it strange when folks get annoyed by lots of gunfire at the range....What did they expect? A 922r compliant S-12 is allowed to shoot the Hi-cap Mags. Last I checked, Texas is still one of the few states left that has this old outdated concept called "Freedom". God bless 'em!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have the following mods: 1.) UTG handguard rail system (http://www.amazon.co...m/dp/B002TUSRMC) 2.) Tac 47 auto gas plug 3.) Kings armory gas puck 4.) Tapco collapsible 6-position buttstock and pistol grip - so I'm guessing my is 922r compliant than ? - Also, to update on calling ATF, these were their exact words: "I have not heard anything that would otherwise make the drum magazines illegal". I think the people at the range were talking about the 922r compliance issue then when they said the drum mags might be illegal. Yes, i LOVE Texas...we're still free down here...for the most part =). Basically, the only thing that you have that counts is the Tapco Butt-stock, so basically, you can ONLY use American made mags. If you use your Russian mag, you would then be illegal. Convert that weapon and you'll have no issues, well, except that the butt-stock and pistol grip you bought will be useless... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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