HELP! Trigger Spring Issues

[daughertym 15]

Since I did my conversion, I have had issues with the right leg of the trigger spring jumping left onto the trigger bar, causing it to lock up when I fire a quick string of rounds. I have to tried to put a crook in the spring leg to keep it moved all the way over to the right up against the bolt hold open, but it still seems to lock up. Is there a quick fix or should I just replace the spring entirely.

 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[corbin 621]

How much of a bend did you put in the spring? Here's mine:

 

[csmw 98]

This happens all the time. Usually gets bent during reassembly.

That's why I include angling the trigger-bar when I do my bolt/trigger-pack reprofiling mods for customers, so it is impossible for it to happen again...even if your spring gets bent at severely retarded angles.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Between the slight bends in both spring legs, & treating all contact surfaces correctly including the trigger's axis pin during a trigger job, if all the correct parts are addressed, that issue can be overcome for good.

Yeah, the smooth pull & clean break are nice, but keeping the issue you're experiencing from happening should be everyone's goal when addressing the FCG.

The smoothness is just an added bonus.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Just curious, how does the contact surface of trigger parts and trigger pin fix the issue?

Are you slotting the trigger pin and bending the spring into the pin's slot, and using the spring as a retainer?

If you are, I am not going to copy it (have my own fix) I am just curious.

 

Because it's a leverage issue & no, I'm not slotting the pin, just finishing it.

 

When friction is reduced less leverage is needed to fully reset the trigger.

In conjunction with keeping the spring in the right place the combination makes my FCGs go bang EVERY time.

[csmw 98]

Just curious, how does the contact surface of trigger parts and trigger pin fix the issue?

Are you slotting the trigger pin and bending the spring into the pin's slot, and using the spring as a retainer?

If you are, I am not going to copy it (have my own fix) I am just curious.

 

Because it's a leverage issue & no, I'm not slotting the pin, just finishing it.

 

When friction is reduced less leverage is needed to fully reset the trigger.

In conjunction with keeping the spring in the right place the combination makes my FCGs go bang EVERY time.

 

Respectfully, if the trigger spring ever does rebend during removal/installation, you are right back where you started.

You do good work, so I am not dissing/questioning your methods...I just think that doing everything everyone else does in doing the work is not a permant fix. Once the spring tweaks (or jumps out of it's position), you are temporarily screwed again, no matter how smoothly the trigger resets. There has to be a different way to deal with it. The way I do mine, you could put a retardily bent spring in there, and it still wouldn't catch on the trigger....impossible.

Just my 02-cents

 

Matt @ C&S

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/66543-boltcarriertrigger-pack-reprofiling-polishing/

[Paulyski 2,227]

Just curious, how does the contact surface of trigger parts and trigger pin fix the issue?

Are you slotting the trigger pin and bending the spring into the pin's slot, and using the spring as a retainer?

If you are, I am not going to copy it (have my own fix) I am just curious.

 

Because it's a leverage issue & no, I'm not slotting the pin, just finishing it.

 

When friction is reduced less leverage is needed to fully reset the trigger.

In conjunction with keeping the spring in the right place the combination makes my FCGs go bang EVERY time.

 

Respectfully, if the trigger spring ever does rebend during removal/installation, you are right back where you started.

You do good work, so I am not dissing/questioning your methods...I just think that doing everything everyone else does in doing the work is not a permant fix. Once the spring tweaks, there has to be a different way to deal with it.

Just my 02-cents

First off, I am treating the trigger legs to smoothen that out, but secondly, WTF are you doing to bend a flippin' tri-braided mainspring during reinsatlation?

 

I mean seriously, all salesmanship aside, you're trying to tell people a mainspring is easily bent out of shape & it happens all the time???

Really???

 

Give me a break brother.

There's hundreds of my sets out there & NOBODY who's sent me all the parts I tell them to has EVER had that issue after GlassBolt, nor will they unless they do something really stupid.

 

Now, I'm guilty of underestimating the average competence of man quite often, so I'm sure someone will screw the super-pooch in the future, but thus far, that hasn't happened from any of the virgin sets I've done, or the rework I've done for people who were conned into thinking they were getting GlassBolt from others but were sorely disappointed that I've re-done, which accounts for a good 20% of my business in the bolt/carrier/FCG market.

 

Now, people can give every excuse under the sun about why the time spent to bring something to the level of GlassBolt is either unneeded, or as to why they don't include it, but in all reality, it boils down to the bottom line.

Smoothening every transision & bringing every point on a handmade piece to the right level for that piece, being as each unit is different takes a bit of time. Time that a shop with a lot of overhead & ASSistants simply cannot afford to expend on a $99.99 with free shipping job.

[csmw 98]

I don't bend my springs, but I have seen others do it. It's not that uncommon...the guy in this thread did it. Seen this same type of post many times. "trigger won't reset"

I was shooting last weekend and a guy's spring was tweaked bad (from his install) and I had to repair it (roughly) in the field with a leatherman tool file. Never touched/straightened his wacked-out spring...left it as it was. After that, gun ran 100% even with his bent-to-sh*t spring & my half ass job cause I was restricted to a crap file that left slightly incorrect angles and horrible/rough file marks.

If someone accidentally bends a spring and it jumps, the trigger-reset is fubared.

[csmw 98]

...WTF are you doing to bend a flippin' tri-braided mainspring during reinsatlation?

 

I never said I bend them on install, because I don't. I said other people bend them...I have seen it.

[csmw 98]

 

Smoothening every transision & bringing every point on a handmade piece to the right level for that piece, being as each unit is different takes a bit of time. Time that a shop with a lot of overhead & ASSistants simply cannot afford to expend on a $99.99 with free shipping job.

 

That's why we charge more ($125) for a (+-) 0.0005" tolerenced precision piece, done on exacting machines. We also do a few other odds & ends. I am not worried about who has the lowest price....my concern is to attack the components and figure out (figure them out in 2005) how to do them for their optimum performance.

We charge $60/hr. Whole modification process takes 3+ hours = $180+.

So $125 is not a bad deal.

[Paulyski 2,227]

 

Smoothening every transision & bringing every point on a handmade piece to the right level for that piece, being as each unit is different takes a bit of time. Time that a shop with a lot of overhead & ASSistants simply cannot afford to expend on a $99.99 with free shipping job.

 

That's why we charge more ($125) for a (+-) 0.0005" tolerenced precision piece, not done by hand, but on exacting machines. We also do a few other odds & ends. I am not worried about who has the lowest price....my concern is to attack the components and figure out (figure them out in 2005) how to do them for their optimum performance.

We charge $60/hr. Whole modification process takes 3+ hours = $180+.

So $125 is not a bad deal.

No, $125 isn't a bad deal.

For the work involved to bring these to the absolute best they can be by treating each unit as an individual unit like the factory does & bringing them to a properly, precision machined perfect finish & dimensions without edges to overcome should realistically be around $200.00, but we're in the AK market & generally speaking, for some odd reason, the majority of people see more value in spending their money on stuff that weighs down their guns & adversely affects performance rather than put their budget toward actually making the thing reliable & balanced.

 

Yes, there's those driven by perceived value, who simply pay a higher price so they can think they paid more, so got more, however in this market, they seem to be far outweighed by both those who research, those who look at the action & can see what needs to be done but don't have the tools to do it & those who are more price conscious.

The only solution is to produce the best, for the least, work 16 hour days & let the guys that think the more money they throw at it the better it'll be, go elsewhere in my opinion.

 

 

 

But for this spring issue, simply angling the trigger legs without addressing the mainspring will be counterproductive.

 

The top of the trigger legs must still be left level to avoid adding friction on either the swing while pulling, or the swing while releasing the trigger, so simply filing the side, although adding a slight deterrent to the spring leg creeping inward could be easily overcome if there's pressure from the spring it's self. '

As the trigger's being pulled, the spring moves on the trigger leg so one can't make the top of the spring leg a knife-edge, or it will wear into the spring, thus increasing resistance & if the mainspring is bent improperly it will STILL wander over to the left being as it's supplying it's own energy to do so & bent at incorrect angles allowing it to walk around rather than stay in place.

 

If the spring's energy is trying to keep it on the trigger leg correctly & the trigger's legs are treated to provide the least amount of resistance possible, the spring's legs will automatically "wander" into the right location with each pull of the trigger & at the same time the trigger pull will not feel grainy even after prolonged usage.

The spring is supplying the dynamic forces, therefore the spring should be addressed.

That, addressing the axis & a drop of oil & it's amazing what can be accomplished.

[beefcakeb99 572]

Dayum shits getting deep in here.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Dayum shits getting deep in here.

+1

 

Personally, I love seeing people say how a machine can take up for talent.

 

That's why the quality of everything we buy lately is substandard.

 

People need to quit passing work off to technology & just do it right.

 

There's a place for my mill & profiling bolts just isn't that place.

 

Even if I employed it, I'd still have to blend the sharp angles & polish by hand to get as far as I take GlassBolt.

[csmw 98]

That's why we charge more ($125) No, $125 isn't a bad deal.

For the work involved to bring these to the absolute best they can be by treating each unit as an individual unit like the factory does & bringing them to a properly, precision machined perfect finish & dimensions without edges to overcome should realistically be around $200.00, but we're in the AK market & generally speaking, for some odd reason, the majority of people see more value in spending their money on stuff that weighs down their guns & adversely affects performance rather than put their budget toward actually making the thing reliable & balanced.

 

Agree

 

 

Yes, there's those driven by perceived value, who simply pay a higher price so they can think they paid more, so got more, however in this market, they seem to be far outweighed by both those who research, those who look at the action & can see what needs to be done but don't have the tools to do it & those who are more price conscious.

The only solution is to produce the best, for the least, work 16 hour days & let the guys that think the more money they throw at it the better it'll be, go elsewhere in my opinion.

 

Fair enuff.

Fact remains, our angles are different than any one elses.

After much testing and evaluation in 2005/2006 we feel our angles are perfect. We have a Boeing mechanical engineer who works here on the weekends (and does all of our FAL builds and repairs). In his opinion, our angles are correct.

 

 

But for this spring issue, simply angling the trigger legs without addressing the mainspring will be counterproductive.

 

Disagree 100% in regard to a bent spring. People bend those springs, and doing a mod that keeps the gun working w/ an out of spec spring is a benefit, imho.

 

 

The top of the trigger legs must still be left level to avoid adding friction on either the swing while pulling, or the swing while releasing the trigger, so simply filing the side, although adding a slight deterrent to the spring leg creeping inward could be easily overcome if there's pressure from the spring it's self.

 

Disagree.

I'm not 'filing' the angle, I am machining it & then high polish.

Also, you are refering to a spec spring. The mod is done to address an out of spec spring.

 

 

As the trigger's being pulled, the spring moves on the trigger leg so one can't make the top of the spring leg a knife-edge, or it will wear into the spring, thus increasing resistance & if the mainspring is bent improperly it will STILL wander over to the left being as it's supplying it's own energy to do so & bent at incorrect angles allowing it to walk around rather than stay in place.

 

Disagree. Angle is not knife edged. It is angled and polished so no wear on the spring.

Any resistance generated by a bent spring glassing off of an steeply angled and polished trigger bar is impercievable.

 

You are correct, a bent spring will wander around and should be replaced.

Our mod lets you to continue shooting with no ill effects, on a bent spring, until it can be replaced.

 

 

If the spring's energy is trying to keep it on the trigger leg correctly & the trigger's legs are treated to provide the least amount of resistance possible, the spring's legs will automatically "wander" into the right location with each pull of the trigger & at the same time the trigger pull will not feel grainy even after prolonged usage.

 

Yes, a correctly bent spring will not wander, it will stay in place.

I am addressing the issue of bent springs. If someone bends their spring, the gun will continue to work (trigger will not stick back in the rearward position), with no ill effects to trigger or bent spring.

There isn't any graininess any way as the polished and rounded spring coils are sliding down the side of a polished severe angle. No graininess. Spring comes off trigger bar w/ zero resistance.

Also, the spring wants to get off the hook. It is stuck there pushing down on the trigger bar...giving it a way to get off the trigger bar, the spring will instantly go the path of least resistance and snap back down allowing the trigger to recock itself.

 

Gun will continue to function until the spring can be replaced with a spec spring.

 

With a spec spring installed, the spring will not come anywhere near the front of the trigger bar, so unless you have a bent spring, the angle-cut will not be touched or deployed.

 

 

The spring is supplying the dynamic forces, therefore the spring should be addressed.

That, addressing the axis & a drop of oil & it's amazing what can be accomplished.

 

Correct.

Our mod let's you keep shooting in the feild, if your spring is bent for any reason.

Yes, once bent, it should be addressed. But, a sticking trigger can ruin a shooting session if the user does not know he tweaked the spring on the last removal/instal. Our mod lets you keep shooting, so your day goes well.

 

imho, that's a good thing.

I guess we will just have to continue to disagree about that.

[daughertym 15]

I'd say thanks for the input, but it looks like Pauly and C&S got into a pissing match over who does the best work and really didn't answer my question, short of implying that I should have paid one of you to do my work. If it is a matter of needing to send it to one of you guys...thanks, but no thanks. I just want to know if it is fixable without expensive repairs, or should I just replace the spring. Not all of us have the money to spend on custom work, and I figured I could learn as I go.

 

Again, any HELP would be appreciated.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Sorry, I take any allusions to my process personally & I happen to know for a fact that it's difficult to bend mainsprings.

Stuff doesn't add up here.

 

Just take a pair of needelnose pliers & do a slight outward bend about 2/3 of an inch from the coils of the mainspring on the mainspring's legs & use a drop of oil on the axis.

 

It takes less than a minuet & you don't even have to remove the FCG to do it.

 

The spring will then be using its own pressure to keep its self in place.

 

If you want to go 1 step further, polish the trigger's axis pin to reduce a touch of friction there.

 

It's not really even a selling point of GlassBolt for me, just something I figured I'd do to get rid of one more issue.

 

I never really intended on including it, but people kept sending me their mainsprings so I just started doing them while I was at everything else.

[daughertym 15]

Thanks Pauly...I'll give it a try and report back.

Edited May 6, 2011 by BigD45

[csmw 98]

but it looks like Pauly and C&S got into a pissing match over who does the best work

Again, any HELP would be appreciated.

 

Had nothing to do about who does the best work....was a disagreement over modifying the trigger bar. I am just skinning my cat (bolt/carrier/t-pack) differently, to get my desired result, that's all.

Aparently the Gods have spoken and it is all wrong

 

Your question was answered: straighten your spring or buy a new one or angle the front of your trigger bar.

I'll send you a new spring for free (you pay shipping) if you can't get yours straight. If you want your trigger=bar modded and a new spring, $25 + actual shipping.

[csmw 98]

Dayum shits getting deep in here.

+1

 

Personally, I love seeing people say how a machine can take up for talent.

 

That's why the quality of everything we buy lately is substandard.

 

People need to quit passing work off to technology & just do it right.

 

VERY Low blow!

No talent? Just your style to trash other competitors every chance you get....first Cobra, now me.

Check our website for examples of our talentless designs and work and tell me what you think...

 

C&S Resume

[Paulyski 2,227]

Dayum shits getting deep in here.

+1

 

Personally, I love seeing people say how a machine can take up for talent.

 

That's why the quality of everything we buy lately is substandard.

 

People need to quit passing work off to technology & just do it right.

 

VERY Low blow!

No talent? Nice Check our website for examples of our talentless designs and work. Our talent might extend past a simple buffing job. Check it out Pauly and tell me what you think...

 

C&S website

Hey, you're the one trying to paint me as some dude who does everything with a flippin dremel in the polishing sticky, not to mention attempting to misrepresent IceRack's Full carrier polish with GlassBolt's functional treatment.

Then here you are trying to tell people that it's easy to bend a tri-braid out of shape? Please.

Maybe it'd just be best to keep my name where something else of mine is...

Out of your mouth.

Where one goes, the other surely follows when you attempt to misrepresent Pauly's Steelin' Custom Fabrication.

 

And damnit don't try to drag Shannon into this with your edit up there. ^^ We already squashed that shit.

 

I'm sure your employers are great with H&Ks, tanks & ARs. More power to them. I never said "no talent" I said trying to substitute talent with technology & I stand behind it. The American craftsman is disappearing because of that attitude.

I'm not trying to make an AK based weapons system into an AR.

 

Me, my #1 things are GlassBolt, my x-ray quality welds & metal finishing.

Pops always said specialize in 1 thing & do it well...

If it doesn't start with an "S" & end in a "12" I'm not really too interested in having a hand in it.

 

We do NOT do the same thing.

I'll put GlassBolt's many aspects up against anybody's mod & come out on top. I do it daily.

That's not even mentioning IceRack's perfection.

 

Now I'm done with this thread.

Dude's problem's solved.

 

I don't need my competition's endorsement or misrepresentation & would be very pleased if they never mentioned my name.

 

If they choose to, or moreover, are allowed to put the time into the units to address everything I do, it'll be apparent in the future.

 

Until then & a side by side, everything's simply conjecture.

[Joe Barbosa 5]

WOW!!!!!! drama LOL!!! I'm just a rookie compared to you dogs but when I did my conversion I bent the spring outward a little can't tell you the measurements I don't know just went by sight & feel after shooting off 50+ rds on test fire took apart & looked at FCG it looked fine

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...I'll put GlassBolt up against anybody's mod & come out on top. I do it daily.

That's not even mentioning IceRack's perfection.

 

 

Anybody's?

 

 

Edited May 6, 2011 by post-apocalyptic

[vulcan16 971]

This thread deserves to be

 

Two vendors squabbling like children on a kindergarten playground.

 

That is no way to get any of my future business.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

First of course...staying with the OP's question and the reason for this topic... there's more than one way to skin a cat. Some people over the years, have fixed this problem by putting a clockwise twist on the Rt spring leg. I believe Tony has posted about doing it that way.

I prefer to simply pull the spring leg up and qive it a quick bend over the edge of the receiver to get it where it holds itself against the BHO, keeping it from jumping to center. I have at least one of every model Saiga rifle and shotty, with G-2s in them, and have never once had an issue with any of them after doing that quick easy fix.

I also polish the trigger bars on both sides where the springs slide along them. The G-2 already has a bevel cut on the inside edge, which I think is sufficient when polished.

Anyone can do whatever they want to try and "build a better mousetrap" though. I'm sure as hell not going to force my opinion on anyone. What works for me, works for me, and many others....

 

 

This thread deserves to be

 

Two vendors squabbling like children on a kindergarten playground.

 

That is no way to get any of my future business.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

DISCLAIMER.... Pauly do not take this post personally, and continue to get all pissy and try to retaliate by taking it all apart and trying to argue with me. There's no point, and like you said above...."we already squashed that shit".

If nobody has realized it, I have made up with Pauly a long time ago, and we are not supposed to be going at each other like complete idiots any more. We BOTH made a promise to Makc that we would not do that any more.

I have stuck to my promise.....and have stopped trying to defend my business here, DAILY, against stoopid paranoid attacks. Over the past month or so since I stopped putting up a fight however...I've seen the amount of work coming into my shop DWINDLE from a gushing waterfall, to a slow drip. I will not sit by and watch it continue to get worse, because the public is being misled. I have something to say and dammit I'm gonna say it.

 

I have stayed out of this bullshit for that very reason. I have also sat back and watched for the last few months as my good name and reputation have been tarnished, and have lost much business that I used to do for very satisfied customers..... with me not even having to get in my old daily squabbles with Pauly over who was doing the "best" bolt and carrier, and trigger mods LONG before the other. I have been performing the ultimate in reliabilty mods to the bolt carrier groups, and putting out the best AK and S-12 trigger groups you can buy, on this forum, (aside from dinzag's triggers, who also does great work) and been doing it for several YEARS. I have maybe a small handful of customers, who for whatever reason, acted like spoiled children and got all pissy with me, then jumped on Pauly's bandwagon and started negging my posts, sending him their bolts that I did a long time ago, before I perfected my own damn process to the point or PERFECTION it is at now. Just ask anyone who has gotten a bolt and carrier back from me over the past few months.....my work is every bit as good as ANYONE else in the industry, and yes PA, that includes Mike AND Paul... and anyone else in the industry. We all have our own ways of doing things, and all of us do great work. Some of us are just more willing to SHARE than others, and don't try and cockblock their way in and attempt to conquer the whole market. I for one...have taken a HUGE loss by moving over to make room for others is this little niche market. You don't see me plugging my good work all over the place, and posting giant pictures in my sig line, of bolts and carriers I've done. I have a link to a website in my sig, that has a few pics if anyone wants to look at them. Hell my work has improved even more since I took those, so I probably should get my sister, who's a pro photgrapher, to take some new ones. Should I plaster those all over the damn place and force everyone to look at em though??? Hell no. I have my own biz section here. People can go there to see em, or look at my website I hope to find time to finish building sometime, so it's not so screwed up like it is now.

Do I need to drop my prices even further than I already did? Take time away from giving better service to all my other customers, just so I can work like a crimigrant alien to keep up with all the extra workload, from giving away valuable skill and labor??? Hell no I don't. I was getting $150 per bolt & carrier to do this work, back when I wasn't even near as good as I am now. But now I give the shit away for $100, and do a MUCH better job. I think that sucks that I had to do that, just to stay in business, with someone else coming into the market and trying to make my mainstay their own. I'll be DAMNED though, if I'm gonna sit back any more and listen to this bullshit about their work being all around SUPREME to mine, on top of what's already happened.

It's not rocket science boys.

There is nothing all that special about anyone's particular "process", as long as the end result is a part that has been releived of all excess friction causing drag, and it's smooth as a baby's snotty nose. You can read the fine print of the Holy Bible...the small pocket version, in the reflection off my bolts and hammer faces....and also the lower part of the carrier that interfaces the hammer face.

Yes...Pauly goes far beyond the call of duty getting all the tooling marks out of the top half of the bolt carrier, and achieves a level of bling that some people find very attractive. That's awesome. If that's your thing.... That does not make his bolt and carrier group one bit more advanced than any on mine, as far as actual performance is concerned. I pay all my attention to the surfaces that actually rub against each other. There are like 20 different surfaces on the bolt carrier alone, that I carefully polish, to get premium results as far as feel, and function while cycling the action. On the bolt itself, it is completely disassembled and each part that touches another, is at least smoothed, most are polished to a mirror shine, if they actually cause any friction at all when in use. I do not waste time polishing the entire thing unless the customer requests that, because they want it to all match afterward for merely aesthetic reasons. If you get your bolt and carrier done by me, it is GUARANTEED to impress, and WILL make you gun run smoother and better.

 

These implications that have been thrown around a lot lately, about all that "re-work" going on, and people sending their bolts and carriers in for service, that have already been botched by "someone else..." That "someone else" sure as hell isn't me, and I'm tired of seeing that spread all over the place. It has been costing me work already, and dammit that needs to stop immediately. If ANYONE is EVER unhappy with the work performed by Cobra's Custom, they need only to take advantage of the FULL SATISFACTION GUARANTEE, and send it back if they actually have a problem with it, and not just some personal issue either. I stand behind ALL my work 100% and always have. I have spent more of my time answering questions for people in Pms, and in public, than anyone else on this whole forum. I have the highest post count on this forum, and have for years, as well as almost 10,000 PMs in my private message center, to prove that.

 

ENOUGH of all the dick swinging and measuring for God's sake!!! There is room in the industry for more than one person to do these mods!

I was the FIRST to offer them as an individual service, and I am still the most experienced in doing them. If you want to send your work to someone else, be my guest. Don't do it because you heard they were better at it though, because that's bullshit. I'm just as good as anyone else at it, and better than most. I'm not going to be a cocky bastard though, and go around claiming to be the absolute BEST. A shiny smooth piece of metal is a shiny smooth piece of metal. There just really isn't that much about it that makes one that much "better" than the other. If the person doing the work knows WTF they are doing, it is almost as good as another. If that person has done hundreds like I have, then it's a given that they do know what they are doing. If they have gone out of their way to improve the way they do it, (to get the finish of the metal to a point where there are ZERO scratches in the places where it really matters, and other than deep tooling marks left by the factory, that would take messing up the geometry of the part to remove, the mirror shine on the parts is FLAWLESS) then there is nothing more you can do to make it better.

Good grief!

 

RANT OFF

 

PS.... This thread will more than likely end up in the trash can, so I'm copying this post down to paste it where ever I see fit, if it will help dispel the MYTH, that my work is "outshined" the way it has been portrayed by some.....

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Maybe try some decaf, cobra?

 

[Peckaldee 12]

Let me ask both of you then....on the bolt and carrier, at the most critical point of contact with the other, which one of you has the lower Ra surface roughness reading??

 

That would settle this arguement if both of you are concerned with the working functions of polishing. Being a machinist myself, I am constantly matching surface roughness with functionality of the work.

 

Since both of you do the polish to improve friction, no matter how you get there, surface roughness and possibly even a peak count are the only way to distinguish the better of the two.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Let me ask both of you then....on the bolt and carrier, at the most critical point of contact with the other, which one of you has the lower Ra surface roughness reading??

 

That would settle this arguement if both of you are concerned with the working functions of polishing. Being a machinist myself, I am constantly matching surface roughness with functionality of the work.

 

Since both of you do the polish to improve friction, no matter how you get there, surface roughness and possibly even a peak count are the only way to distinguish the better of the two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

 

 

A very relevant question.

 

Against my better judgment, I'll let out a little secret....

 

I don't go for the absolute smoothest I could do for all the metal to metal contact areas.

 

I hand polish some areas on GlassBolt to avoid some possible issues & only do a rough polish on hammer faces, bolt shafts & rail guides to keep oil/grease retention in those areas.

 

Other areas are simply sealed to prevent corrosion.

On IceRack, the whole top & sides of the carrier is treated where there's no metal to metal contact. The elimination of imperfections & pours protects against corrosion as well as beautifies.

This steel is formulated to resist corrosion, but without being sealed, if totally neglected & not treated like a blued gun & left in an extremely harsh environment browning could occur in small areas where there's many pours. This is eliminated with Icerack

 

Areas in GlassBolt that contact the hulls are brought as smooth as possible for friction reduction there during mag insertion & bolt rotation during cycling while paying close attention to overall strength.

There's much more to the perfect mod than a shine alone IMHO.

As you stated, it's about matching the right surface with the right function.

Yes, some areas may look shiny, but there's many different finishes throughout GlassBolt for differing results.

 

However, I agreed that I wouldn't do side by sides & identify anybody else's mods as theirs, so I'll stick to that.

[csmw 98]

I don't know how this fight got started, and don't know how it got as heated as it did, but I am bowing out of it.

 

I will say, that when I came on here in 2005/2006 people were first starting to profile/polish. I also know Cobra was the first one to start offering that service.

I have seen one of his bolt jobs from a local customer's gun....it was done perfectly, imho. No issues what so ever.

It is not rocket science, it just needs to be done correctly, and it was. You are smoothing out transitions and contact points to create less drag and friction. That's all there is to it. To proclaim oneself as the only one who can achieve this minor modification, is a little nonsensical.

If I wasn't able to the work myself, I wouldn't hesitate to send my parts to Cobra.

 

I also agree with Cobra....it is not a hard mod, but does take a lot of time....labor per hour is too low for the amount of time invested. If I was doing the same amount of work on an HK, the price would be $200.

[csmw 98]

We do NOT do the same thing.

I'll put GlassBolt's many aspects up against anybody's mod & come out on top. I do it daily.

 

No, we do not. Our finished products are not visibly the same.

 

"Up against anybody's"...

Since Cobra and I are the only two other people doing them, you are indirectly leveling that comment at us.

I personally build all our HK conversions that come to our shop (as well as in charge of doing all the work on repairing blown/damaged irreplaceable machinegun recievers, Saigas, 1911's, refinishing, etc....and also sharing work on ALL of our other products/services) so I know quality....and Cobras work was just that, quality.

 

I won't even be shiping my first batch back till Monday, so you have never even seen mine to evaluate, and since they are different, you have no clue about them or how they function.

 

Your comment was meritless.

[datrowl 111]

3 guys were haveing drinks at a bar when the size of their manhood came into question, they went back and forth about it for hours till eventually the bartender had heard enough... " pull em out and lets see em, I got a ruler, we'll settle this once and for all " the bartender said. The 3 men all produced their manhood and with reassureing "THUNKS" tossed em across the bar for the bartenders measurements....

 

About this time, another man enters the bar, this man ...... wore a pink polo shirt, prissed when he walked and .....clearly liked men....

 

The bartender turns to the fairy and in a gruff voice asks " whaddya need Pal? "

 

To this the little man replied in a lispy voice " Well... I was just going to have a quick beer, but I guess I can stay for the buffet "

 

 

 

 

 

All kidding aside, and I ask this cause I have NO knowledge on the topic at hand but here we seem to have 3 of the greatest minds in the same thread in reguards to bolt polishing etc etc..

 

Till I can get the funds together to have a proper polish and profile job done, would it do any good kinda as a quick fix to toss the whole thing in my reloading brass polisher with some rosewood media and polishing compound and just let it run awhile to kinda clean up any burrs and stuff? or is that idea a sure recipie for disaster?

 

Sorry, I just don't know if there are parts of the bolt and such that SHOULDN'T be polished... or if this would even have the desired effect.

 

Anyone?