CZ VZ-58 vs Norinco (Chinese type 56) AK

[glennhmd 23]

I am torn between these two assault rifles. I found it in one local store and i was surprised they are priced the same. both use same ammo (7.62x39).

 

VZ58 cannot use AK mags and vice versa. VZ58 is lighter, may be more "manageable". I've read a ton of sites from google searches yet i still cant decide.

 

this:

 

 

 

OR this:

 

 

 

 

[Shandlanos 1,470]

The answer to your questions depends on price, condition, and the manufacturer of the vz. 58. If it's a Century product, the 56S is worth substantially more. If it's a D-Teknik (or however the hell they smell their company name), the 56S is still a more valuable rifle, but not by as much. The pic of the Type 56 did not load for me. If it's under a grand, I'd happily pick up the Type 56. Milled receivers kick ass, and it's a preban rifle.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

At a glance, I'm guessing the vz. 58 is a century build, as it has a bayonet lug and threaded barrel. The ones that come from the Czech Republic do not have these features. The third and fourth possibilities that occur to me are that it is somebody's build of a parts kit on a new receiver (hopefully with a replacement barrel, since the originals are about 15.5"), or an imported rifle that has been debanned and refanged. I don't believe there are any pre-ban semi-auto vz. 58s.

[Arik 565]

I'd go for the Norinco. The weight doesn't bother me and I don't feel like buying more mags.

[physicsnerd 139]

In the Philippines are they full auto or semi like they are here in the US?

 

I would suspect that where you are they are direct imports from China or the Czech Republic.

[glennhmd 23]

I'm sorry for the confusion i made re: the pictures. i only got them from google images. I was not allowed to take actual picture of the product in the store. against store policy, i was told.

 

 

 

but the actual units are all imports, the Norinco AK is from China and the CZ Vz-58 is from Czech republic.

 

Both are new as i was told (i doubt) and unmodified from factory, both full auto (YES! its legal here for us to own full auto assault rifles except .30 cal light machine guns or anything more powerful), both unit cost roughly the same (approx $1,300 with license), both come with 4 mags.

Edited August 3, 2011 by glennhmd

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Oh well, my bad. Assumed you were in the US and didn't notice your info clearly to the contrary. I guess then that it comes down to what use you'll put it to, and what parts availability is like where you are.

[glennhmd 23]

Oh well, my bad. Assumed you were in the US and didn't notice your info clearly to the contrary. I guess then that it comes down to what use you'll put it to, and what parts availability is like where you are.

 

 

now that's an altogether different story when it comes to parts availability here in our country. there's just very few aftermarket parts seller here, at least where i live and usually cater to the usual 1911, M4 and M16 market. the AK's and look-alike thereof are quite rare to see (can you believe that, in a third world country) and much rarer still to find aftermarket parts for those. in fact, my saiga12-k still has only the factory 5-round magazine coz i could not find any mags (be it factory or otherwise) for it. i even stopped using my saiga lately coz i'm afraid my lone 5-rounder would give out from the abuse (i've run close to 500 rounds through it thus far).

 

 

from that experience, i already know that whatever i purchase this time around, i will be stuck with whatever accessories it contains in the package. i also realize now that i wont be able to modify what i eventually purchase as easily as you guys there in the US where aftermarket parts are widely available.

 

i am leaning towards the CZ VS-58 for the lightness and over-all fit and finish (only an observation from an untrained eye like mine) over the Norinco AK. but my readings mostly from different forums indicate good reviews for the Chinese-made AK, it being one of the top AK variants one could find, apparently.

 

i still cant decide which one to get. what i'm sure of is that i want a full auto assault rifle firing 7.62x39 bullets just to be different from the rest of the pack in our local range (usually I see M4's and M16's, rarely M14).

[kresk 10,063]

Some folks might argue the VZ is a better gun.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Oh well, my bad. Assumed you were in the US and didn't notice your info clearly to the contrary. I guess then that it comes down to what use you'll put it to, and what parts availability is like where you are.

 

 

now that's an altogether different story when it comes to parts availability here in our country. there's just very few aftermarket parts seller here, at least where i live and usually cater to the usual 1911, M4 and M16 market. the AK's and look-alike thereof are quite rare to see (can you believe that, in a third world country) and much rarer still to find aftermarket parts for those. in fact, my saiga12-k still has only the factory 5-round magazine coz i could not find any mags (be it factory or otherwise) for it. i even stopped using my saiga lately coz i'm afraid my lone 5-rounder would give out from the abuse (i've run close to 500 rounds through it thus far).

 

 

from that experience, i already know that whatever i purchase this time around, i will be stuck with whatever accessories it contains in the package. i also realize now that i wont be able to modify what i eventually purchase as easily as you guys there in the US where aftermarket parts are widely available.

 

i am leaning towards the CZ VS-58 for the lightness and over-all fit and finish (only an observation from an untrained eye like mine) over the Norinco AK. but my readings mostly from different forums indicate good reviews for the Chinese-made AK, it being one of the top AK variants one could find, apparently.

 

i still cant decide which one to get. what i'm sure of is that i want a full auto assault rifle firing 7.62x39 bullets just to be different from the rest of the pack in our local range (usually I see M4's and M16's, rarely M14).

 

Either one is a fine rifle, and if you're going to be using it as it comes right out of the box without modifications, I'd go with the type 56. You already have an S-12, so you're familiar with the basic action and manual of arms. The vz-58 is an odd, striker-fired beast. They are a lot of fun, but the action is a good bit more complex than the AK, and has a few small parts that are prone to eventual failure. The magazines are also made of aluminum, and more prone to incidental denting and damage than steel AK magazines. Now, I've read that the Chinese continued to designate their rifle the Type 56 even after they switched to a stamped receiver... Does this rifle have a milled or stamped receiver? If it's milled, hands-down, I say get it. If it's stamped, I'd probably still get it, but not with as high a level of enthusiasm

Edited August 3, 2011 by Shandlanos

[glennhmd 23]

i could not tell if the Norinco AK they are selling is milled or stamped (darned NEWB! that i am). Oh and the store clerk doesn't even know what milled and stamped mean. it (AK) does feel quite heavy and exude more heft, particularly being held side by side against the VZ-58.

 

any comments as to how these two handle on full auto fire? would the weight of the Norinco AK trump the "lightweight" VZ-58, that is in terms of handling the recoil? or the more "sophisticated" internals of the VZ-58 shine agianst the "crude" AK design?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Some folks might argue the VZ is a better gun.

I can certainly understand the merits they have over the traditional AK.

 

Lighter, Better ergonomics(LRBHO, thumb flip lever safety) I personaly like the 45 degree charging handle also.

 

They are both very robust and durable.

 

the small weight difference might be a non issue depending on the user.

 

The AK has a FAR better parts availability list and huge aftermarket, but if you don't have access to this, what do you care?

 

Accuracy is the final card, I know what the russian AKs are capable of, but can't speak for the VZ.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Since that's a FA from the Czech Republic, (and not some bastard parts kit rifle), I'd get the VZ-58. It's lighter, (a lot lighter if the AK's receiver is milled), very accurate and reliable, and just plain more interesting than a Chinese AKM imo.

 

Of course, I'm not a particular fan of Chinese rifles, nor of milled AK receivers.

 

ymmv.

[2ndAmendican 23]

IMHO, I'd go with the Type 56.

 

First off the Chinese AK variants in general have a better fit and finish than most of their European counterparts. If it's a stamped receiver then it's 1.6 mm vs the standard 1 mm, which obiously makes it more robust, and arguably accurate. If it's a milled receiver, then it will have the smoothest action of virtually any AK out there. (According to extensive testing by the Navy SEALs, the Chinese AK's had the best overall feel, fit, and function of all their European counterparts, with the milled having the smoothest actions of them all.)

 

The VS58 is a great weapon, as previously mentioned, but it's operating system is more complex, harder to feild repair, and magazines are not easy to come by, compared to AK mags.

 

Just my 2 cents. Please post some pics of your purchase regardless of which you decide.

[glennhmd 23]

this dilemma just took a turn for the worse.

 

i've been asking around for a steady supply of 7.62x39 rounds and was taken aback by the lack of sellers here in our place. found a store about 4 hrs drive away (one way) selling 7.62x39 rounds for $1.25 EACH! no kidding. that would be $37.50 per 30-round magazine i empty downrange which on full auto would be over in like 2-3 seconds. no wonder i dont see anyone else shooting AK's at our local range.

 

thanks for the inputs anyway.

[Katana 4]

 

i've been asking around for a steady supply of 7.62x39 rounds and was taken aback by the lack of sellers here in our place. found a store about 4 hrs drive away (one way) selling 7.62x39 rounds for $1.25 EACH! no kidding. that would be $37.50 per 30-round magazine i empty downrange which on full auto would be over in like 2-3 seconds. no wonder i dont see anyone else shooting AK's at our local range.

 

I'm just curious, but are you be allowed to reload your own rounds for it? I'm not familiar with Filipino gun laws at all.

 

Is that an option for cheaper ammo?

[glennhmd 23]

i've been asking around for a steady supply of 7.62x39 rounds and was taken aback by the lack of sellers here in our place. found a store about 4 hrs drive away (one way) selling 7.62x39 rounds for $1.25 EACH! no kidding. that would be $37.50 per 30-round magazine i empty downrange which on full auto would be over in like 2-3 seconds. no wonder i dont see anyone else shooting AK's at our local range.

 

I'm just curious, but are you be allowed to reload your own rounds for it? I'm not familiar with Filipino gun laws at all.

 

Is that an option for cheaper ammo?

 

 

 

Yup we're allowed to reload our own ammo, but one has to get a separate license for it (reloader). apparently we just need to apply for one time license, unlike our gun license that need to be renewed after 4 yrs for a new gun and every 2yrs thereafter - and that's for EACH gun you own. sometimes makes me think of migrating.

 

i haven't really considered reloading inasmuch as i'm a a newbie to guns but i would gladly try it later once i've gained enough know-how on the subject. thanks for the suggestion. at least this idea has shone a flicker of hope in my dream of owning a 7.62x39 rifle. all is not lost somehow.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

What are the rules on personal importation of ammunition? If it's not a regulatory nightmare, bringing in cheap surplus from another country might work.

[glennhmd 23]

What are the rules on personal importation of ammunition? If it's not a regulatory nightmare, bringing in cheap surplus from another country might work.

 

I have already asked around and apparently its not allowed. i was told by one gun store owner that only a handful of major (military) arms supplier are handling imports in our country. I was looking at prices of ammo in the US and my eyes are popping out of their sockets just thinking about the profits one could make if one could just bring them into the country that is. just last week, i bought Federal Powershok 12-gauge slugs costing $2 per shell.

 

moving back on topic, the urge to buy the VZ-58 is still very strong. I may just as well buy it since i've got the funds for it anyway but it would be sad because i won't be shooting it much due to the prohibitive cost of ammo. I'll be posting pictures whichever rifle i finally get.

 

 

 

[guncats 4]

so the 556 caliber is a lot cheaper there?

[glennhmd 23]

so the 556 caliber is a lot cheaper there?

 

 

about half the price of a 7.62x39, approximately $0.66 per bullet. was initially tempted to get a norinco M4 or bushmaster M4 (5.56) due to the exorbitant price of ammo of 7.62. but the call of the 7.62 is stronger. and getting even stronger as the days go by.

 

 

[rob-cubed 74]

Well, it's kinda a catch-22 then isn't it? Ammo costs a lot more in the Philippines but F/A guns are way cheaper than in the US. There go my dreams to retire there with my wife!

 

I would get an F/A .22 and a 9mm pistol and 12 shotgun. Have fun with #1 and use the other two as needed.

 

Com-bloc rounds are 1/2 the price of NATO calibers here, which is why I got into AKs to begin with.

Edited August 13, 2011 by rob-cubed

[glennhmd 23]

Well, it's kinda a catch-22 then isn't it? Ammo costs a lot more in the Philippines but F/A guns are way cheaper than in the US. There go my dreams to retire there with my wife!

 

I would get an F/A .22 and a 9mm pistol and 12 shotgun. Have fun with #1 and use the other two as needed.

 

Com-bloc rounds are 1/2 the price of NATO calibers here, which is why I got into AKs to begin with.

 

if you're thinking of retirement, well all i can say is your dollars can be stretched longer if you spend it here. you can live comfortably with two maids and a driver on a $1,000 monthly budget for living expenses etc all in.

 

gun ownership and ammunition cost however is sadly the opposite. its a luxury here to own and fire guns.

 

 

[rob-cubed 74]

I've visited the islands a couple times (wife is Filipino). Official gun laws over there are definitely pretty strict but people seem to find a way to own whatever they want anyway. It's definitely a gun culture, maybe even more than the US. I have yet to go to one of the black markets but hear they are amazing.

 

We probably will be retiring there, for the reasons you stated. The dollar goes a lot further, and it's warm and beautiful most of the year. It'll kill me to have to liquidate my collection and start over but... that's the price of paradise!

[fvf 0]

Hi

 

I also have a Saiga12K and decided to buy the Chinese AK. I think you are looking at the same store where i bought my AK. Was not happy that the Czech AK is not compatible with typical AKs in terms of parts & accessories.

 

Also I was able tp purchase 7-round mags for my Saiga 12K.