changes in new imports from legion.

[Saiga12fiend 2]

Has anybody else fired 3" yet? I really wish I had a

Extra 550 right now, but my next gun will be a AR anyway.

 

 

a new s12 for $550? where? thanks

 

One just sold for $540 on gunbroker.com a few days ago and fairly regularly in the $580 range(+ $25-$35 for shipping)

[vulcan16 971]

Has anybody else fired 3" yet? I really wish I had a

Extra 550 right now, but my next gun will be a AR anyway.

 

 

a new s12 for $550? where? thanks

 

One just sold for $540 on gunbroker.com a few days ago and fairly regularly in the $580 range(+ $25-$35 for shipping)

 

Pick one up a NIB 09 model from NineRider that was listed in the FS section,

$550 FTF, still in wrapper, never opened.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Jetmech

[BigShots 0]

Thanks macaholic for your reply. I really appreciate your taking the time to post your experience. When I bought mine, I had no idea that there were issues such as this. And still, I would have bought one also, even if one or two were partially closed. I simply wouldn't have known. All I knew for the week of hearing about them and calling around was that Saiga-12's were baad, they're getting ready to be stopped at the border, and the prices were climbing fast so I better hurry and get one while I could. And once I heard all of that and saw some YouTube's of the damage that they could inflict, I was hooked. Like I said before, might not of made a bit of difference but I would have liked to look in all three to see if one was a little better. Just wonder if my gun guy knew, didn't know, are felt that it's no big deal to him/them about the port issues. Guess working in a gun shop with an on-premise smith makes some issues moot to some, knowing that they can get them corrected pretty quickly and at little to no charge to boot. Anyway, I won't know on mine until I shoot it so I need to get a mix of different shells and go from there. Hopefully, the MD gas plug and the CSS "performance puc" that I bought will help if there is a problem??? I'll give it a go. Thanks again.

 

Hey brother, I feel your pain. What I've learned in the twentyfour+years I've been in the firearms biz, is that you can cover all your bases and still get a lemon. As mentioned in my previous post, I hand selected this new Saiga-12 out of several others at the show and I even inspected the gas ports as well. There were three visible port holes when I looked inside the gas block so I figured It was a three port gun. Okay, so I bought the gun. Once I got it home and made a closer inspection, I noticed a fourth hole partially covered by the gas block. Anyway, I guess we can expect more of this gas block bullshit from this new batch of Saiga-12's just like the previous ones. I did call the number on the manuel and they said that they were doing the warrantee on these guns. Oh Goody! Just what the consumer wants to look forward to when he buys a new product. I guess you can try the gun out and hopefully it will run right, providing the port holes are the proper size and everything else is in mechanical harmony. On my gun, I didn't even consider warrantee and imediately removed the gas block to open up the access hole. When I did test fire the gun, I got at least two FTE's out of 75 rounds of 7 1/2 birdshot. To some people this would be acceptable, but I'm of the opinion that a gun like any other product, should run right from the get go without any fiddle-fucking. I guess the thing that really burns my ass is that this problem was supposed to have been corrected, now here we go again! Furthermore, these guns are Kalashnikovs and are known for their legendary reliability. I guess the best thing to do is shoot the damned thing and hope for the best. I do have one Saiga-12 that ran right from day one and required ZERO monkeying around, so I know they can get them right when the want to. Give it a go and see what happens

 

I'm going to run some more rounds through my gun this week to see if I get any more FTE's. Hopefully, this issue will clear up and I can move forward. It's probably better to run the gun in stock form to see what it's going to do before adding after market parts. In other words, you may not want to start fixing what's not broke, because the gun just may work right from the start.Give it a chance and see, hopefully it will be one they got right,

I hear you. I don't want to borrow any trouble either. My 2 port VS may just love scotch instead so I better shoot the sucker and see what's what. I may have a wolf in sheeps clothing (ha).

Edited September 20, 2011 by In-Guage

[BigShots 0]

My Saiga is an '09 (H09xxxxxx) yet the "inspected" date is 5-23-11 . Why so long between build and inspected dates? It's also says Legion-Trade Russia and Legion USA Inc. It has the side rail mount as well.

 

 

[xiuxiu1313 0]

My Saiga is an '09 (H09xxxxxx) yet the "inspected" date is 5-23-11 . Why so long between build and inspected dates? It's also says Legion-Trade Russia and Legion USA Inc. It has the side rail mount as well.

 

 

 

I just picked my 2011 up from my FFL, it's got an H11XXXXXX serial number with an inspection date of 07-22-2011. Ill post the port hole count and condition after I get it home and taken apart tonight.

 

 

 

Update, just checked out my ports....only 3 are visible, one of which may be partially obstructed by the gas block...

 

 

 

 

 

Re-Update. Checked ports again with a mirror, I have four baby!

Edited September 23, 2011 by xiuxiu1313

[ItsAllCreated 59]

It looks like the lower picture. What is the signifigance?

 

everything. it means the russians improved the design from the factory, so we never get jams on the barrel hood wit 2 3/4 inch shells. thanks for taking the time to post.

 

heres a good pic to show you how the longer barrel hood prevents 2 3/4 in shells from jaming on the barrel hood. thanks again evl.

 

 

 

So are all the newer S12 comming in like this?

...If I go to CSS and order me a S12 will it be like this?

 

Before this thread I never even heard of the smaller shells having issues with FTF jamming. I've been reading along with this thread and liked what I saw but wasnt all that enthused about the new design cause I never had FTF's before. Then just TODAY I had then over and over (shells getting jammed up in the hood) when I was shooting. Talk about pissin me off

 

It makes me wanna go out and get one these newer ones just because of this now

[yooper14.5 84]

It looks like the lower picture. What is the signifigance?

 

everything. it means the russians improved the design from the factory, so we never get jams on the barrel hood wit 2 3/4 inch shells. thanks for taking the time to post.

 

heres a good pic to show you how the longer barrel hood prevents 2 3/4 in shells from jaming on the barrel hood. thanks again evl.

 

 

 

So are all the newer S12 comming in like this?

...If I go to CSS and order me a S12 will it be like this?

 

Before this thread I never even heard of the smaller shells having issues with FTF jamming. I've been reading along with this thread and liked what I saw but wasnt all that enthused about the new design cause I never had FTF's before. Then just TODAY I had then over and over (shells getting jammed up in the hood) when I was shooting. Talk about pissin me off

 

It makes me wanna go out and get one these newer ones just because of this now

 

so far it looks like they are all coming in with the extended barrel hood, but varying between 3 and 4 ports.

[macaholic 5]

It looks like the lower picture. What is the signifigance?

 

everything. it means the russians improved the design from the factory, so we never get jams on the barrel hood wit 2 3/4 inch shells. thanks for taking the time to post.

 

heres a good pic to show you how the longer barrel hood prevents 2 3/4 in shells from jaming on the barrel hood. thanks again evl.

 

 

 

So are all the newer S12 comming in like this?

...If I go to CSS and order me a S12 will it be like this?

 

Before this thread I never even heard of the smaller shells having issues with FTF jamming. I've been reading along with this thread and liked what I saw but wasnt all that enthused about the new design cause I never had FTF's before. Then just TODAY I had then over and over (shells getting jammed up in the hood) when I was shooting. Talk about pissin me off

 

It makes me wanna go out and get one these newer ones just because of this now

 

 

I got to run my new 2011 Saiga-12 again this week and had zero FTE's, but I did have one FTF when I ran out of Remington and switched to Winchester. It may have been ammo related or mag related, but FTF's have never been any kind of issue in my other two Saiga-12's. As far as this longer barrel hood goes, it's a non issue to me, I just want to make sure this damn thing runs properly before I send in the paper work to SBS it to 16".

[2ndAmendican 23]

So, in keeping somewhat on topic, I picked up an already converted IZ109(?) 19" barrel NIB (other than the conversion)S12 about 2 years ago. Haven't fired it much, but what I did shoot was all high brass. Biggest issue was feeding, as the rounds were catching on the hood as described. I've done a bit of work to it using information gleaned from this forum (Thank you all.) and it seems to have cleared up most of the issues. I really just need to get some time to "break it in", as I don't think I've put more than 50 rounds through it in the last 2 years.

 

Now I am looking at the 3 vs 4 port issue, and I swear mine only has one large port, similar to a "standard" AKM. Is this correct, or is my vision that bad? TIA,

[macaholic 5]

After running another 150 rounds through my new Saga-12 last week, I feel like there may be some hope after all. As I stated in my previous post, I didn't experience any FTE's, but I did have one FTF when I ran out of Remington and went to Winchester. It may have been the ammo, mag related, or what ever, but the gun did seem to run better the second time around. However, I have mixed feelings concerning this new fangled barrel hood, because unreliable feeding has never been an issue with my other two Saiga-12's. I'm of the opinion that if it aint broke don't fix it.

Edited September 24, 2011 by macaholic

[macaholic 5]

So, in keeping somewhat on topic, I picked up an already converted IZ109(?) 19" barrel NIB (other than the conversion)S12 about 2 years ago. Haven't fired it much, but what I did shoot was all high brass. Biggest issue was feeding, as the rounds were catching on the hood as described. I've done a bit of work to it using information gleaned from this forum (Thank you all.) and it seems to have cleared up most of the issues. I really just need to get some time to "break it in", as I don't think I've put more than 50 rounds through it in the last 2 years.

 

Now I am looking at the 3 vs 4 port issue, and I swear mine only has one large port, similar to a "standard" AKM. Is this correct, or is my vision that bad? TIA,

 

Who knows? But they sure need to clear up this gas port bullshit and come up with a set of standards to follow. As far as 3 vs 4 gas ports, the best Saiga-12 I have is a 3 port. I swear all I've done is load the mags and pull the trigger with this gun. No fucking around with the gas block or sending it in for warrantee, just load mags, pull trigger and bang-bang-bang! Personally, I don't care if it's a three port or a four port so long as it works. I thought this new 2011 gun I just baught had three ports untill I got it home for a closer inspection. Fortunately, things seem to be working out okay with this gun so far.

Edited September 24, 2011 by macaholic

[BigShots 0]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

[yooper14.5 84]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

[BigShots 0]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

Thanks yooper. It's a 19". Here's a couple of pics though. I posted these before . . . .

 

 

[macaholic 5]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

From all the info I've gathered concerning the gas port issue, it seems to be the collective opinion that more small gas ports produce less fouling in the gas block than fewer large gas ports. In other words, you can produce the same amount of gas with two ports as you can with three or four ports, but the fewer ports you have, the larger the ports have to be. The only advantage I can see in four ports vs three or two gas ports, is the amount of fouling the smaller number of ports supposedly produce. Personally, I'm happy with my three port gun, and I don't see any difference in the fouling that my new four port gun produces. From the pictures you've posted, those gas ports look big enough to gas your gun properly, but you wont know for sure untill you try it out. Edited September 25, 2011 by macaholic

[macaholic 5]

In all this gas port Hoop-La, I almost forgot to mention that I just did a full conversion on a Saiga-12 for a friend of mine, and it just happens to be a three port gun that runs like a Timex. So based on my own experience, and being the owner of a four port gun as well as a flawless running three port gun, I can't see any advantage in four ports vs three ports. All I care about is that the gun runs without me having to fuck with it.

Edited September 25, 2011 by macaholic

[yooper14.5 84]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

Thanks yooper. It's a 19". Here's a couple of pics though. I posted these before . . . .

 

 

 

 

it looks like it might run, if not you can drill it to either a 3 port or 4 port. just make sure you drill the ports at the right angle, or get massive fouling.

[BigShots 0]

In all this gas port Hoop-La, I almost forgot to mention that I just did a full conversion on a Saiga-12 for a friend of mine, and it just happens to be a three port gun that runs like a Timex. So based on my own experience, and being the owner of a four port gun as well as a flawless running three port gun, I can't see any advantage in four ports vs three ports. All I care about is that the gun runs without me having to fuck with it.

Thanks for the responses again. Guess I'll have to first, measure the 2 ports I already have and that may determine if 3 or 4 is needed (if at all).

[BigShots 0]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

Thanks yooper. It's a 19". Here's a couple of pics though. I posted these before . . . .

 

 

 

 

it looks like it might run, if not you can drill it to either a 3 port or 4 port. just make sure you drill the ports at the right angle, or get massive fouling.

Thanks. They do appear big with the mirrors help, however, I've tried using a paper clip to stick in the holes but they don't seem to want to go in. Maybe I'm using the wrong angle.

Edited September 25, 2011 by In-Guage

[lbsrdi 1,078]

These guns are all different. Shoot the things a little bit and loosen them up before trying to decide if you need to mess with the ports. Remember the brand new baseball glove you got as a child?...There IS such thing as a break in period. Ulike a woman, these guns don't come already broken in.

[BigShots 0]

These guns are all different. Shoot the things a little bit and loosen them up before trying to decide if you need to mess with the ports. Remember the brand new baseball glove you got as a child?...There IS such thing as a break in period. Ulike a woman, these guns don't come already broken in.

Lol. Good advice. Little different now a days since we use to use linseed oil for the gloves (ha). Anyway, like you said, the true test will be finally seeing how it does as is and then go from there.

[macaholic 5]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

Thanks yooper. It's a 19". Here's a couple of pics though. I posted these before . . . .

 

 

 

 

it looks like it might run, if not you can drill it to either a 3 port or 4 port. just make sure you drill the ports at the right angle, or get massive fouling.

Thanks. They do appear big with the mirrors help, however, I've tried using a paper clip to stick in the holes but they don't seem to want to go in. Maybe I'm using the wrong angle.

 

There is probably some crud in those port holes. When I took my gas bock off I noticed two of mine were clogged and I had to push through with a small spring pin. It's probably better in your case to use the paper clip by pushing in and out around the edges untill they are clear. Some of these gas ports come from the factory clogged with crap inside.

Edited September 25, 2011 by macaholic

[taseal 12]

I have not tried 3" shells yet. I am afraid to if it is over gassed! Will the auto plug or V-plug "gass it down" safely? How should I correct this problem. Is there a way to confirm if I really do infact have an overgassed gun??

 

Both plugs will do good, just remember the autoplug can't run 3" magnums.

 

what? why can't it run magnums? sure it can. when the gas is high enough, the spring will open up futher to let more gas out.

[macaholic 5]

Well I think my new 2011 Saiga-12 just may be a winner! I took it out with my three port gun and it ran flawlessly with three different brands of bird shot, including the cheap Winchester. I guess I always expect the worst after having bad experiences with a previous firearm. Also, I sent in the Form 1 on this gun to SBS to 16", and I plan to send in the other Form 1 on the three porter with my next paycheck. Ha-Ha! I was at the gunshow today and I told my buddy I have plans to by another Saiga-12.

Edited October 8, 2011 by macaholic

[yooper14.5 84]

Well I think my new 2011 Saiga-12 just may be a winner! I took it out with my three port gun and it ran flawlessly with three different brands of bird shot, including the cheap Winchester. I guess I always expect the worst after having bad experiences with a previous firearm. Also, I sent in the Form 1 on this gun to SBS to 16", and I plan to send in the other Form 1 on the three porter with my next paycheck. Ha-Ha! I was at the gunshow today and I told my buddy I have plans to by another Saiga-12.

 

 

What gas setting did you run it on?

[BigShots 0]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

Thanks yooper. It's a 19". Here's a couple of pics though. I posted these before . . . .

 

 

 

 

it looks like it might run, if not you can drill it to either a 3 port or 4 port. just make sure you drill the ports at the right angle, or get massive fouling.

Thanks. They do appear big with the mirrors help, however, I've tried using a paper clip to stick in the holes but they don't seem to want to go in. Maybe I'm using the wrong angle.

 

There is probably some crud in those port holes. When I took my gas bock off I noticed two of mine were clogged and I had to push through with a small spring pin. It's probably better in your case to use the paper clip by pushing in and out around the edges untill they are clear. Some of these gas ports come from the factory clogged with crap inside.

As it turns out, the paper clips go in fine. I was initially putting them in at the wrong angle. Hopefully the ports are drilled at the correct size (they do seem pretty large) and it'll be fine.

[macaholic 5]

Well I think my new 2011 Saiga-12 just may be a winner! I took it out with my three port gun and it ran flawlessly with three different brands of bird shot, including the cheap Winchester. I guess I always expect the worst after having bad experiences with a previous firearm. Also, I sent in the Form 1 on this gun to SBS to 16", and I plan to send in the other Form 1 on the three porter with my next paycheck. Ha-Ha! I was at the gunshow today and I told my buddy I have plans to by another Saiga-12.

 

 

What gas setting did you run it on?

I was on the number 2 setting. I ran Remington 1 oz 2 3/4 brass # 7 shot, Federal 1 1/8 2 3/4 brass 7 1/2, and Winchester steel shot # 7. I guess these guns realy do go through a break in period but this is only my third Saiga-12. I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

Edited October 28, 2011 by macaholic

[macaholic 5]

Mine has only 2 ports but even though I haven't shot mine yet to know, is it definately a bad thing?. I mean, is it a fact that you do need 3 or 4 ports for it to run correctly? Through all of my viewing, I've forgotton if I've seen any 2 port success stories.

 

if its a 19" gun, your most likely going to have problems, unless theyre 2 giant holes. if its a 24" gun, its normal.

Thanks yooper. It's a 19". Here's a couple of pics though. I posted these before . . . .

 

 

 

 

it looks like it might run, if not you can drill it to either a 3 port or 4 port. just make sure you drill the ports at the right angle, or get massive fouling.

Thanks. They do appear big with the mirrors help, however, I've tried using a paper clip to stick in the holes but they don't seem to want to go in. Maybe I'm using the wrong angle.

 

There is probably some crud in those port holes. When I took my gas bock off I noticed two of mine were clogged and I had to push through with a small spring pin. It's probably better in your case to use the paper clip by pushing in and out around the edges untill they are clear. Some of these gas ports come from the factory clogged with crap inside.

As it turns out, the paper clips go in fine. I was initially putting them in at the wrong angle. Hopefully the ports are drilled at the correct size (they do seem pretty large) and it'll be fine.

Have you shot this gun yet? I'm curious to find out how it works.

[Roadhawg 10]

I have a 2011 Legion, it has an extend hood and 4 ports.

[PROBIKE101 0]

most of the shorter guns 19 inches have 4 ports, big enough holes or obstructed is another problem.