Likely scenario?

[longhorn 81]

This is what I think is going to happen in the very near future:

 

The economy has crumbled. Americans are being laid off at record numbers and others are under employed. Food, fuel, housing and the rest of peoples basic needs are so expensive they simply can't afford to pay the cost of these items. Even with their unemployment government assistance checks, they become desperate. The American population for decades has lost the ability to hunt, fish and obtain the knowledge of "RUFFING IT", because they have had a grocery store on every corner of their neighborhood for their entire lives. The people resort to theft, rape and murder, which at first is limited but soon becomes a pandemic because of decades of moral decline. Now, the OWS movement types are multiplied by millions and it's rampant through out the whole of America. Citizen/criminals by the hundreds are making their way street by street to your neighbor hood in search of what you may posses. The Police and National Guard are overwhelmed and don't have the man

power to stop the riots and most are too concerned for their loved ones to do their jobs. What action do you take?

[pony_express1973 183]

Protect my family and property at ALL COSTS and if that means taking the life of a looter or someone meaning to do me or my family harm then so be it

[zenman223 460]

Signs would be put on my property line that if crossed without permission you will be shot on sight. Anyone who crosses would be shot and left laying. I would imagine a few bodies lying in front of my "dont fuck with me" signs and people will get the picture to not fuck with me!! This would obviously be a terrible thing to have to do but I wouldnt think twice about it befor I let anyone take from me or my family.

[dayofruin 425]

Protect my family and property at ALL COSTS and if that means taking the life of a looter or someone meaning to do me or my family harm then so be it

Same here. I live in a small subdivision that could easily be secured. I'm working on getting to know my neighbors a bit better.

[timy 1,185]

You just described present day Detroit. What's your point?

[joelrod47 373]

Signs would be put on my property line that if crossed without permission you will be shot on sight. Anyone who crosses would be shot and left laying. I would imagine a few bodies lying in front of my "dont fuck with me" signs and people will get the picture to not fuck with me!! This would obviously be a terrible thing to have to do but I wouldnt think twice about it befor I let anyone take from me or my family.

 

Fuck a bunch of signs.........We don't need no steenking signs.............. In the above described scenario, just shoot 'em.

[Heath_h49008 442]

Not gonna happen.

 

We have this right now. The criminals are getting bolder, more aggressive, and the police are more concerned with collecting fines than stopping known criminal threats. The outlaying areas are becoming targeted more often by scrappers/robbers/home invaders. (It will get worse, and expect kidnapping for money to be more common as well.)

 

An organized mob? Not a chance.

 

Mobs are led by politicos who promise them free things, they don't run into the countryside with torches and pitchforks. When they do riot, they burn their own areas and loot.

[wtjosaas 72]

Protect my family and property at ALL COSTS and if that means taking the life of a looter or someone meaning to do me or my family harm then so be it

 

 

This^^

[G O B 3,516]

Some of us have lived thru thru '68 riots. FLEE urban areas! NEVER live near liquor stores ,bars or stores selling bling or electronics. There is only about 2 weeks food in urban areas, after that anyone you see may be close to becoming a zombie!

[longhorn 81]

Some of us have lived thru thru '68 riots. FLEE urban areas! NEVER live near liquor stores ,bars or stores selling bling or electronics. There is only about 2 weeks food in urban areas, after that anyone you see may be close to becoming a zombie!

 

'68 was way before my time but I was living in East L.A in '92. My Grandpa, Uncle, Dad and myself each had a shotgun and never left the house. I remember us hoping and praying it wouldn't reach our street. Two blocks from us the Mexicans and Blacks were fighting each other and we heard lots of news from the neighbors who witnessed the violence. They told us we should stay home because of how dangerous it was and we did. We were one of four White families who lived in that part of town for several blocks. We were lucky to have a home on an acre of land that had crops and chickens. I completely agree...leave if you can.

[Donkeyshins 87]

Why would "OWS movement types" be committing "theft, rape and murder"? I doubt if they have any greater percentage of criminals than any other cross-section of America (I don't include Black Bloc anarchists as they have as much in common with OWS as the KKK has with the Tea Party - e.g. they may show up, but they're not accepted by the mainstream movement).

 

Also, you shouldn't look down upon the unemployed as you may very well become a member yourself given the economy and the non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism.

 

That being said, if there were some sort of scenario like you outlined, I'd probably get my extended family out to my farm, coordinate with the neighbors and hunker down to ride it out.

[longhorn 81]

Why would "OWS movement types" be committing "theft, rape and murder"? I doubt if they have any greater percentage of criminals than any other cross-section of America (I don't include Black Bloc anarchists as they have as much in common with OWS as the KKK has with the Tea Party - e.g. they may show up, but they're not accepted by the mainstream movement).

 

Also, you shouldn't look down upon the unemployed as you may very well become a member yourself given the economy and the non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism.

 

That being said, if there were some sort of scenario like you outlined, I'd probably get my extended family out to my farm, coordinate with the neighbors and hunker down to ride it out.

 

 

The OWS types are committing theft and rape but not murder...yet. They have destroyed property and shit on everything, leaving trash everywhere. What good have they done in comparison to the Tea Party, who accomplished very much through non violence and even cleaned up after themselves.

 

I don't look down on the unemployed because I've been there. I, for example, lost my company in 2008, which payed me over 100k per year. I then lost my 70k per year job in 2010 but, I never filed for bankruptcy, took unemployment checks or took to the streets and acted like a crybaby back bitch. I got up, dusted myself off, jumped back in the saddle and continued to kick ass. I have had good success with only a GED that I didn't receive until 2008. I make much less in this economy, but 6 months ago I was still able to purchase my first house. I refuse to feel sorry for people who would rather smoke dope, riot and act like animals, rather than stand in front of Home Depot or work for an unemployment agency.

[yakdung 2,926]

Sounds good to take up arms to protect your neighborhood. Depending on the flavor of the looters, you could be labeled a racist.

http://www.wdsu.com/r/20048909/detail.html

 

Yakdung

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Why would "OWS movement types" be committing "theft, rape and murder"? I doubt if they have any greater percentage of criminals than any other cross-section of America (I don't include Black Bloc anarchists as they have as much in common with OWS as the KKK has with the Tea Party - e.g. they may show up, but they're not accepted by the mainstream movement).

 

Also, you shouldn't look down upon the unemployed as you may very well become a member yourself given the economy and the non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism.

 

That being said, if there were some sort of scenario like you outlined, I'd probably get my extended family out to my farm, coordinate with the neighbors and hunker down to ride it out.

Yep, Capitalism is all that is wrong with this country! Wait, who is it again that takes 30+% off the top of my paycheck (which my employer has to match most of by law) to pay the unemployed not to work.

 

Oh, and on consumables, it's the evil corporations that charge 5%-10% profit margins to make their greedy profit while the government only gets 25% to 35% of it to pay for people that don't work. So if an end product has 5 steps of production, the consumer pays these taxes on each step which inflates the price to well over 50% in some cases.

 

Yeah, Fuck those evil corporations, we need more government to take away the rest my income! OWS are the saviours of our time!

Edited November 28, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer

[Heath_h49008 442]

The OWS has half of the picture... The banks and Wall St did run a casino where if they won they kept the winnings, and when they lost they passed the failures to the taxpayers.

 

The Tea Party... the real one before Palin/Bachman and the rest turned it into bitching about abortion and homos... had the other half right about the corrupt politicos that Wall St and the Banks purchased and ran like whores they are (Republicans AND Democrats alike)

 

Small portions of both groups understand the real issue was BOTH. Government has too much power to sell, and Wall St and the FEDERAL RESERVE are simply printing the money to buy it. Destroying the competition and driving up costs across the board. Hence, actual production, jobs, and business disappears. The money becomes worthless,

 

Starving people don't have political parties... we will be seeing more of them.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Heath_h49008

[Donkeyshins 87]

Why would "OWS movement types" be committing "theft, rape and murder"? I doubt if they have any greater percentage of criminals than any other cross-section of America (I don't include Black Bloc anarchists as they have as much in common with OWS as the KKK has with the Tea Party - e.g. they may show up, but they're not accepted by the mainstream movement).

 

Also, you shouldn't look down upon the unemployed as you may very well become a member yourself given the economy and the non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism.

 

That being said, if there were some sort of scenario like you outlined, I'd probably get my extended family out to my farm, coordinate with the neighbors and hunker down to ride it out.

Yep, Capitalism is all that is wrong with this country! Wait, who is it again that takes 30+% off the top of my paycheck (which my employer has to match most of by law) to pay the unemployed not to work.

 

Oh, and on consumables, it's the evil corporations that charge 5%-10% profit margins to make their greedy profit while the government only gets 25% to 35% of it to pay for people that don't work. So if an end product has 5 steps of production, the consumer pays these taxes on each step which inflates the price to well over 50% in some cases.

 

Yeah, Fuck those evil corporations, we need more government to take away the rest my income! OWS are the saviours of our time!

 

Where did I say, "fuck those evil corporations"? I said, "non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism". You know, when a corporation moves its official headquarters out of state (or the country) to dodge taxes. Or when a corporation decides to close its facilities in the US in order to outsource all the jobs to somewhere overseas that pays 5 cents on the dollar to its employees. That kind of non-worker-friendly nature.

 

And a huge percentage of those who are unemployed (especially those who no longer get unemployment insurance) would love to have a job - it's just that they are unable to find them in the current economy.

 

The OWS has half of the picture... The banks and Wall St did run a casino where if they won they kept the winnings, and when they lost they passed the failures to the taxpayers.

 

The Tea Party... the real one before Palin/Bachman and the rest turned it into bitching about abortion and homos... had the other half right about the corrupt politicos that Wall St and the Banks purchased and ran like whores they are (Republicans AND Democrats alike)

 

Small portions of both groups understand the real issue was BOTH. Government has too much power to sell, and Wall St and the FEDERAL RESERVE are simply printing the money to buy it. Destroying the competition and driving up costs across the board. Hence, actual production, jobs, and business disappears. The money becomes worthless,

 

Starving people don't have political parties... we will be seeing more of them.

 

Thank you!

Edited November 29, 2011 by Donkeyshins

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Why would "OWS movement types" be committing "theft, rape and murder"? I doubt if they have any greater percentage of criminals than any other cross-section of America (I don't include Black Bloc anarchists as they have as much in common with OWS as the KKK has with the Tea Party - e.g. they may show up, but they're not accepted by the mainstream movement).

 

Also, you shouldn't look down upon the unemployed as you may very well become a member yourself given the economy and the non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism.

 

That being said, if there were some sort of scenario like you outlined, I'd probably get my extended family out to my farm, coordinate with the neighbors and hunker down to ride it out.

Yep, Capitalism is all that is wrong with this country! Wait, who is it again that takes 30+% off the top of my paycheck (which my employer has to match most of by law) to pay the unemployed not to work.

 

Oh, and on consumables, it's the evil corporations that charge 5%-10% profit margins to make their greedy profit while the government only gets 25% to 35% of it to pay for people that don't work. So if an end product has 5 steps of production, the consumer pays these taxes on each step which inflates the price to well over 50% in some cases.

 

Yeah, Fuck those evil corporations, we need more government to take away the rest my income! OWS are the saviours of our time!

 

Where did I say, "fuck those evil corporations"? I said, "non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism". You know, when a corporation moves its official headquarters out of state (or the country) to dodge taxes. Or when a corporation decides to close its facilities in the US in order to outsource all the jobs to somewhere overseas that pays 5 cents on the dollar to its employees. That kind of non-worker-friendly nature.

 

And a huge percentage of those who are unemployed (especially those who no longer get unemployment insurance) would love to have a job - it's just that they are unable to find them in the current economy.

Maybe you should look at the government imposing regulations and taxes that make it financially impossible to manufacture durable goods in this country and not be in the red or have to price your product out of the market. If you feel that 10%+ State taxes (on top of the myriad of other taxes) on corporations is a good thing, realize that all of that is passed to the end consumer meaning it is another tax on all of us. If the price is too high, there aren't any fucking consumers and the corporation is no longer in business.

 

Also, remember that importing requires a hefty transportation cost but it is quickly made up due to the fact that labor cost is now almost double what the worker's wage is due to mandatory matching of taxes, unemployment insurance and mandatory healthcare insurance which are all the government's doing, not the company's. That means the company should be able to hire two employees for the price they are paying for one... Now do the math as to why unemployment is so fucking high.

 

Taxes don't create prosperity and the flaw with the anti-capitalist doctrine spewed out on the news and media is that when you take away from one person to give it to another, you eliminate both peoples' incentive to work harder and better themselves. If you really believe the class warfare Socialist agenda, you should give me all your money and private property so I can give it to people less fortunate than your greedy rich ass.

Edited November 29, 2011 by BuffetDestroyer

[Donkeyshins 87]

Why would "OWS movement types" be committing "theft, rape and murder"? I doubt if they have any greater percentage of criminals than any other cross-section of America (I don't include Black Bloc anarchists as they have as much in common with OWS as the KKK has with the Tea Party - e.g. they may show up, but they're not accepted by the mainstream movement).

 

Also, you shouldn't look down upon the unemployed as you may very well become a member yourself given the economy and the non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism.

 

That being said, if there were some sort of scenario like you outlined, I'd probably get my extended family out to my farm, coordinate with the neighbors and hunker down to ride it out.

Yep, Capitalism is all that is wrong with this country! Wait, who is it again that takes 30+% off the top of my paycheck (which my employer has to match most of by law) to pay the unemployed not to work.

 

Oh, and on consumables, it's the evil corporations that charge 5%-10% profit margins to make their greedy profit while the government only gets 25% to 35% of it to pay for people that don't work. So if an end product has 5 steps of production, the consumer pays these taxes on each step which inflates the price to well over 50% in some cases.

 

Yeah, Fuck those evil corporations, we need more government to take away the rest my income! OWS are the saviours of our time!

 

Where did I say, "fuck those evil corporations"? I said, "non-worker-friendly nature of modern corporate capitalism". You know, when a corporation moves its official headquarters out of state (or the country) to dodge taxes. Or when a corporation decides to close its facilities in the US in order to outsource all the jobs to somewhere overseas that pays 5 cents on the dollar to its employees. That kind of non-worker-friendly nature.

 

And a huge percentage of those who are unemployed (especially those who no longer get unemployment insurance) would love to have a job - it's just that they are unable to find them in the current economy.

Maybe you should look at the government imposing regulations and taxes that make it financially impossible to manufacture durable goods in this country and not be in the red or have to price your product out of the market. If you feel that 10%+ State taxes (on top of the myriad of other taxes) on corporations is a good thing, realize that all of that is passed to the end consumer meaning it is another tax on all of us. If the price is too high, there aren't any fucking consumers and the corporation is no longer in business.

 

Also, remember that importing requires a hefty transportation cost but it is quickly made up due to the fact that labor cost is now almost double what the worker's wage is due to mandatory matching of taxes, unemployment insurance and mandatory healthcare insurance which are all the government's doing, not the company's. That means the company should be able to hire two employees for the price they are paying for one... Now do the math as to why unemployment is so fucking high.

 

Taxes don't create prosperity and the flaw with the anti-capitalist doctrine spewed out on the news and media is that when you take away from one person to give it to another, you eliminate both peoples' incentive to work harder and better themselves. If you really believe the class warfare Socialist agenda, you should give me all your money and private property so I can give it to people less fortunate than your greedy rich ass.

Excuse me? What manufacturing business do you own that was forced to go out of business because of government regulations? Tell you what, let's be scientific about this and perform an experiment (unless you don't believe in science, that is): Nevadans can stop paying taxes to the state or federal government and will stop receiving any money or benefits from the state or federal government that would result from said taxes. We'll check back in 15-20 years and see how that works out for you...

Edited November 29, 2011 by Donkeyshins

[Heath_h49008 442]

Honestly? Nevada would thrive and I would be moving there TODAY.

 

If you could keep what you earned, and didn't have the massive costs of the EPA fees, reviews, labor insurance, labor taxes, tax attorneys fees, and licensing fees... You could produce your product for a vastly lower cost to the customer, and be able to afford the best employees! You could even take a risk on that new product or method with VASTLY reduced expense/risk.

 

Government is the problem... But then again so are the people who support it to get handouts.

 

That means GE who gets enough to not pay a dime in taxes when their competitors still have to, as well as the low paid citizen demanding free healthcare, cell phones, foodstamps, and subsidized housing... they are ALL the problem. And the only exist because the FED prints the money to fuel it.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Excuse me? What manufacturing business do you own that was forced to go out of business because of government regulations? Tell you what, let's be scientific about this and perform an experiment (unless you don't believe in science, that is): Nevadans can stop paying taxes to the state or federal government and will stop receiving any money or benefits from the state or federal government that would result from said taxes. We'll check back in 15-20 years and see how that works out for you...

 

I wanted to get my ammo manufacturing license until I learned about ITAR, Zoning Special Use Permits, Hazardous Materials Variances, and the mandated insurance costs in addition to the inexpensive Type 6 FFL ($30 for 3 years). I would have to produce enough ammunition to recoup well over $8,000 in up front licenses, taxes and regulatory costs if I were to sell just one round - not including the actual cost of materials or equipment. Try doing a break even test to see how many rounds I would have to sell not including the additional 12% Federal Excise Tax to reach a point where that cost is less than $.05/round.

 

I just started a business partnership with an unemployed friend to manufacture weapons slings. For me to hire someone besides the two of us to do any of the labor or administrative duties, we would have to have that person produce twice the output that we are currently capable of to get to the break even point to afford a minimum wage salary for them. BTW, despite a decent margin I don't take a cut nor do I get paid for my time so that my friend can put food on his table and pay rent.

 

I also currently do business consulting and after the taxes I pay on my wages, I get to keep less than 60% of my income from that business because I pay the mandated taxes rather than doing it under the table like more and more people are doing. BTW the evil greedy businesses that I work with pay a lot in taxes and the government and insurance regulations have cut their business in half meaning they pay less in taxes than they would have before the regulations.

 

Since you're such an expert on creating economic wealth how many companies have you started and made financially profitable or does that go against your ideals of a utopia where we all stand in bread lines to get our government issued rations and size 9 shoes (one size fits all right)?

[swells08 128]

Honestly? Nevada would thrive and I would be moving there TODAY.

 

If you could keep what you earned, and didn't have the massive costs of the EPA fees, reviews, labor insurance, labor taxes, tax attorneys fees, and licensing fees... You could produce your product for a vastly lower cost to the customer, and be able to afford the best employees! You could even take a risk on that new product or method with VASTLY reduced expense/risk.

 

Government is the problem... But then again so are the people who support it to get handouts.

 

That means GE who gets enough to not pay a dime in taxes when their competitors still have to, as well as the low paid citizen demanding free healthcare, cell phones, foodstamps, and subsidized housing... they are ALL the problem. And the only exist because the FED prints the money to fuel it.

 

I guess you would be cool with me opening a nuclear plant by you, btw I have no Idea how it works but know that it can make money...so with no regulations I could do whatever the hell I wanted...just saying there has to be a balance...unfortunately that balance has been abused by pussies who think people wearing helmets is more important than building those helmets in the USA...lol I remember when every country wanted to be America...so the government quickly found an easier way to make money...sell us out.

 

Back on the topic though...in your scenerio I would not be bugging in...droves of bad guys will eventually come with the numbers and take you out...I would bug out to the family reservation where we would hopefully have numbers and resources.

[Donkeyshins 87]

Excuse me? What manufacturing business do you own that was forced to go out of business because of government regulations? Tell you what, let's be scientific about this and perform an experiment (unless you don't believe in science, that is): Nevadans can stop paying taxes to the state or federal government and will stop receiving any money or benefits from the state or federal government that would result from said taxes. We'll check back in 15-20 years and see how that works out for you...

 

I wanted to get my ammo manufacturing license until I learned about ITAR, Zoning Special Use Permits, Hazardous Materials Variances, and the mandated insurance costs in addition to the inexpensive Type 6 FFL ($30 for 3 years). I would have to produce enough ammunition to recoup well over $8,000 in up front licenses, taxes and regulatory costs if I were to sell just one round - not including the actual cost of materials or equipment. Try doing a break even test to see how many rounds I would have to sell not including the additional 12% Federal Excise Tax to reach a point where that cost is less than $.05/round.

 

I just started a business partnership with an unemployed friend to manufacture weapons slings. For me to hire someone besides the two of us to do any of the labor or administrative duties, we would have to have that person produce twice the output that we are currently capable of to get to the break even point to afford a minimum wage salary for them. BTW, despite a decent margin I don't take a cut nor do I get paid for my time so that my friend can put food on his table and pay rent.

 

I also currently do business consulting and after the taxes I pay on my wages, I get to keep less than 60% of my income from that business because I pay the mandated taxes rather than doing it under the table like more and more people are doing. BTW the evil greedy businesses that I work with pay a lot in taxes and the government and insurance regulations have cut their business in half meaning they pay less in taxes than they would have before the regulations.

 

Since you're such an expert on creating economic wealth how many companies have you started and made financially profitable or does that go against your ideals of a utopia where we all stand in bread lines to get our government issued rations and size 9 shoes (one size fits all right)?

Wait - you're surprised and outraged that you need zoning permits, insurance and hazardous materials variances to start a business manufacturing ammunition? WTF?

 

And FWIW, my wife and I own rental properties as an LLC. And I'm tired of your ad hominem attacks upon me so I'm not going to waste any further time trying to have a discussion with you.

[swells08 128]

Excuse me? What manufacturing business do you own that was forced to go out of business because of government regulations? Tell you what, let's be scientific about this and perform an experiment (unless you don't believe in science, that is): Nevadans can stop paying taxes to the state or federal government and will stop receiving any money or benefits from the state or federal government that would result from said taxes. We'll check back in 15-20 years and see how that works out for you...

 

I wanted to get my ammo manufacturing license until I learned about ITAR, Zoning Special Use Permits, Hazardous Materials Variances, and the mandated insurance costs in addition to the inexpensive Type 6 FFL ($30 for 3 years). I would have to produce enough ammunition to recoup well over $8,000 in up front licenses, taxes and regulatory costs if I were to sell just one round - not including the actual cost of materials or equipment. Try doing a break even test to see how many rounds I would have to sell not including the additional 12% Federal Excise Tax to reach a point where that cost is less than $.05/round.

 

I just started a business partnership with an unemployed friend to manufacture weapons slings. For me to hire someone besides the two of us to do any of the labor or administrative duties, we would have to have that person produce twice the output that we are currently capable of to get to the break even point to afford a minimum wage salary for them. BTW, despite a decent margin I don't take a cut nor do I get paid for my time so that my friend can put food on his table and pay rent.

 

I also currently do business consulting and after the taxes I pay on my wages, I get to keep less than 60% of my income from that business because I pay the mandated taxes rather than doing it under the table like more and more people are doing. BTW the evil greedy businesses that I work with pay a lot in taxes and the government and insurance regulations have cut their business in half meaning they pay less in taxes than they would have before the regulations.

 

Since you're such an expert on creating economic wealth how many companies have you started and made financially profitable or does that go against your ideals of a utopia where we all stand in bread lines to get our government issued rations and size 9 shoes (one size fits all right)?

 

Got that break even analysis for you...although with limited resources and knowledge this is just an estimate...a break even analysis shows you what you need to produce and sell in order to recoup your investment without any profit so here ya go:

 

I estimated the numbers:

 

Startup fee's: $8,000

Equipment: $200,000

Supplies: $75,000

Advertising: $10,000

 

Selling a box of ammo at $12 a box

Means roughly 25,000 boxes of ammo to break even

 

I know you said to get cost to .05$ a round but that is not a variable for break even that is your ideal cost so you can profit....a break even analysis is just the minimum to get to zero as the name implies.

 

Must be nice that the only thing stopping you is that last $8,000....

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Excuse me? What manufacturing business do you own that was forced to go out of business because of government regulations? Tell you what, let's be scientific about this and perform an experiment (unless you don't believe in science, that is): Nevadans can stop paying taxes to the state or federal government and will stop receiving any money or benefits from the state or federal government that would result from said taxes. We'll check back in 15-20 years and see how that works out for you...

 

I wanted to get my ammo manufacturing license until I learned about ITAR, Zoning Special Use Permits, Hazardous Materials Variances, and the mandated insurance costs in addition to the inexpensive Type 6 FFL ($30 for 3 years). I would have to produce enough ammunition to recoup well over $8,000 in up front licenses, taxes and regulatory costs if I were to sell just one round - not including the actual cost of materials or equipment. Try doing a break even test to see how many rounds I would have to sell not including the additional 12% Federal Excise Tax to reach a point where that cost is less than $.05/round.

 

I just started a business partnership with an unemployed friend to manufacture weapons slings. For me to hire someone besides the two of us to do any of the labor or administrative duties, we would have to have that person produce twice the output that we are currently capable of to get to the break even point to afford a minimum wage salary for them. BTW, despite a decent margin I don't take a cut nor do I get paid for my time so that my friend can put food on his table and pay rent.

 

I also currently do business consulting and after the taxes I pay on my wages, I get to keep less than 60% of my income from that business because I pay the mandated taxes rather than doing it under the table like more and more people are doing. BTW the evil greedy businesses that I work with pay a lot in taxes and the government and insurance regulations have cut their business in half meaning they pay less in taxes than they would have before the regulations.

 

Since you're such an expert on creating economic wealth how many companies have you started and made financially profitable or does that go against your ideals of a utopia where we all stand in bread lines to get our government issued rations and size 9 shoes (one size fits all right)?

Wait - you're surprised and outraged that you need zoning permits, insurance and hazardous materials variances to start a business manufacturing ammunition? WTF?

 

And FWIW, my wife and I own rental properties as an LLC. And I'm tired of your ad hominem attacks upon me so I'm not going to waste any further time trying to have a discussion with you.

So you're an evil corporation that should be taxed more? Nothing is stopping you from giving all your rental income to the government.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

Excuse me? What manufacturing business do you own that was forced to go out of business because of government regulations? Tell you what, let's be scientific about this and perform an experiment (unless you don't believe in science, that is): Nevadans can stop paying taxes to the state or federal government and will stop receiving any money or benefits from the state or federal government that would result from said taxes. We'll check back in 15-20 years and see how that works out for you...

 

I wanted to get my ammo manufacturing license until I learned about ITAR, Zoning Special Use Permits, Hazardous Materials Variances, and the mandated insurance costs in addition to the inexpensive Type 6 FFL ($30 for 3 years). I would have to produce enough ammunition to recoup well over $8,000 in up front licenses, taxes and regulatory costs if I were to sell just one round - not including the actual cost of materials or equipment. Try doing a break even test to see how many rounds I would have to sell not including the additional 12% Federal Excise Tax to reach a point where that cost is less than $.05/round.

 

I just started a business partnership with an unemployed friend to manufacture weapons slings. For me to hire someone besides the two of us to do any of the labor or administrative duties, we would have to have that person produce twice the output that we are currently capable of to get to the break even point to afford a minimum wage salary for them. BTW, despite a decent margin I don't take a cut nor do I get paid for my time so that my friend can put food on his table and pay rent.

 

I also currently do business consulting and after the taxes I pay on my wages, I get to keep less than 60% of my income from that business because I pay the mandated taxes rather than doing it under the table like more and more people are doing. BTW the evil greedy businesses that I work with pay a lot in taxes and the government and insurance regulations have cut their business in half meaning they pay less in taxes than they would have before the regulations.

 

Since you're such an expert on creating economic wealth how many companies have you started and made financially profitable or does that go against your ideals of a utopia where we all stand in bread lines to get our government issued rations and size 9 shoes (one size fits all right)?

 

Got that break even analysis for you...although with limited resources and knowledge this is just an estimate...a break even analysis shows you what you need to produce and sell in order to recoup your investment without any profit so here ya go:

 

I estimated the numbers:

 

Startup fee's: $8,000

Equipment: $200,000

Supplies: $75,000

Advertising: $10,000

 

Selling a box of ammo at $12 a box

Means roughly 25,000 boxes of ammo to break even

 

I know you said to get cost to .05$ a round but that is not a variable for break even that is your ideal cost so you can profit....a break even analysis is just the minimum to get to zero as the name implies.

 

Must be nice that the only thing stopping you is that last $8,000....

Mock away and continue feeling good that over 50% of your ammo costs (if you add in sales tax, transportation, excise tax and much more) end up in the government's hands rather than the workers and entrepreneurs in this industry.

 

FYI DJ:

Since we are just randomly pulling things out of thin air for my supposed business plan, you forgot:

$2,000,000 for my salary and paid vacations

$5,000,000 for a private jet to cheaply deliver each box of ammo to the boys and girls

$500,000 for lap dances and pole dancing tips

$25,000 for a spa filled with KFC gravy

 

 

In reality, I was looking at a one-man operation to supplement my hobby and a justification to have the capability of manufacturing enough ammo that I could forget about trigger discipline from time to time.

 

I was looking at investing in a Dillon Super 1050 (in addition to my other 3 presses and equipment which are already producing) which is under $1,700 with all the whistles and doo-dads. I live near X-Treme Bullets that manufactures projectiles for HSM and can get them cheap by picking them up locally.

 

Gun show booths run around $150 and a banner or sign would be less than that and I am already capable of making labels and cards. My business plan was not to compete with Federal, Remington and Winchester, but to hit the local remanufactured market like BVAC, HSM, Ultra Max, Black Hills Blue Box etc. Shipping is a big cost in ammo distribution, so distributing through local gunshops and gunshows would cover advertising.

 

$8,000 is conservative figuring only $5,000 for the SUP in my current Mixed Use Zoning, $2,250 for the ITAR and then to find some insurance for under $3,000 a year, not including several other taxes, inspections, fingerprinting, background checks, engineering fees etc. Amazingly, I am willing to bet that any Ma & Pa ammo you see at gunshows doesn't actually pay all this stuff and the government gets nothing out of their cash business.

 

BTW, it's not just ammunition that is heavily regulated by the government. Try finding out how much it costs to put in a paint booth to finish your product or a sand oil separator for an auto detail, or a grease interceptor for a sandwich shop.

 

 

 

Still not seeing why shit is so fucking hard to manufacture legally in this country and why evil corporations move due to government regulations?

[Heath_h49008 442]

Because the politically connected companies get waivers under the guise of "Job Creation" and forgivable grants for the actual costs...

 

It's only the little competitors who get the shaft... guys too small to jump the hoops for a few years, or too innovative to be competed against by the big guys get shut down before they even open. Hell, local zoning boards do it to favor one restaurant over another or one development over another ALL THE TIME.

 

Anyone who thinks the politicians can be trusted is an idiot. Anyone who thinks a business won't buy a politician to maximize profits is a fool. And anyone who thinks a private organization with the power TO PRINT MONEY AT WILL AND IN SECRET won't abuse that power... well, frankly that person would almost be too stupid to breathe.

[dayofruin 425]

Gravy!? Lap dances?! We must work together!!! LMAO!!!

Seriously though. I would love to start my own business as well. Nobody locally offers real smith services and i felt confident that i could corner the market here. Then i started looking at the cost of renting a building and the insane fees/taxes that I'd have to pay. Still looking into it. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject yet but, if i could do it at home in my spare time, in my garage, it may be worth it.

[Heath_h49008 442]

 

I guess you would be cool with me opening a nuclear plant by you, btw I have no Idea how it works but know that it can make money...so with no regulations I could do whatever the hell I wanted...just saying there has to be a balance...unfortunately that balance has been abused by pussies who think people wearing helmets is more important than building those helmets in the USA...lol I remember when every country wanted to be America...so the government quickly found an easier way to make money...sell us out.

 

.

\

Sure.. we already have two, but a nice new reactor would be great! Lower energy costs can fuel heavy industry. If they want to make a profit, they have to keep the plant running clean. And if they fail, can be held accountable.

 

We weren't "Sold Out"... Our Grandparents and Parents were sold a free lunch. They didn't care who had to pay... they didn't care about why the money kept losing value. We have the government we deserve... because the people were too damn stupid, lazy, and apathetic to stop it.

 

All those men who died for our flag, died because of what we stood for, not because of the colors or patterns in cloth. We have allowed that to be destroyed over the last 100 years. We did it.

[swells08 128]

BD,

 

Ah so what you are looking at is a hobby for profit...like the guys at the booth who probably manufacture ammo with some loophole that allows them to skip many regulations that you are seeking or they just have not been as well informed as you have...I was not trying to stir up stuff just giving you a business break even point...so it you look at your hobby as an initial startup of $50,000 in all you need to manufacture 4200 boxes of ammo to recoup your investment...now if you can get supplies and all that cheaper your break even point will also be lower or you would just end up with a profit...just saying...I thought you wanted to go full scale...I am sure my numbers were low as manufacturing equipment in the printing industry is through the roof...but at a smaller level is acheivable. I am not mocking and see where you might have took it that way..

 

 

I guess you would be cool with me opening a nuclear plant by you, btw I have no Idea how it works but know that it can make money...so with no regulations I could do whatever the hell I wanted...just saying there has to be a balance...unfortunately that balance has been abused by pussies who think people wearing helmets is more important than building those helmets in the USA...lol I remember when every country wanted to be America...so the government quickly found an easier way to make money...sell us out.

 

.

\

Sure.. we already have two, but a nice new reactor would be great! Lower energy costs can fuel heavy industry. If they want to make a profit, they have to keep the plant running clean. And if they fail, can be held accountable.

 

We weren't "Sold Out"... Our Grandparents and Parents were sold a free lunch. They didn't care who had to pay... they didn't care about why the money kept losing value. We have the government we deserve... because the people were too damn stupid, lazy, and apathetic to stop it.

 

All those men who died for our flag, died because of what we stood for, not because of the colors or patterns in cloth. We have allowed that to be destroyed over the last 100 years. We did it.

 

Unfortunately without regulation of how I operate there would not be regulation for responsibility..see that's the rub...lol I think if the government was less for sale that it would be less involved. Also making a profit has nothing to do with doing things "right"...lol

Because the politically connected companies get waivers under the guise of "Job Creation" and forgivable grants for the actual costs...

 

It's only the little competitors who get the shaft... guys too small to jump the hoops for a few years, or too innovative to be competed against by the big guys get shut down before they even open. Hell, local zoning boards do it to favor one restaurant over another or one development over another ALL THE TIME.

 

Anyone who thinks the politicians can be trusted is an idiot. Anyone who thinks a business won't buy a politician to maximize profits is a fool. And anyone who thinks a private organization with the power TO PRINT MONEY AT WILL AND IN SECRET won't abuse that power... well, frankly that person would almost be too stupid to breathe.

 

With anything that is absolute there will be corruption...from money to power as you grow in it you take advantage of it to keep it or gain more. It seems like going back is never an option and politicians, governments and corporations do not want to loose anything...unfortunately as you stated the people have lost many things we used to have due to the advancement of these other areas.

Edited November 29, 2011 by DJ Big Dog

[Heath_h49008 442]

People with dirty plants are held liable for damages... it's cheaper to be clean. You get more profitable workers if you pay better and have higher standards. If you produce crap, what would force anyone to buy it? You'll lose your shirt.

 

Corruption is the ONLY way bad businesses can last. "Too Big To Fail"... Monopolies where the people have no choice such as cable and insurance... They can be as worthless as they want because there is no risk to them.

 

Eliminate the corruption by eliminating the power of the politicians to sell favors. Remove governments power to it's lowest possible level.

 

I thought that was a kinda basic American concept?