Battosaii 99 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 well ive had my s12 for a long time now and its had a long history of cycling problems but i refuse to give up! my s12 is an 2008 model and it is in fact one of the infamous Ivan Specials. when i first got the gun it would pretty much FTE every round with some remington bulk load i had, first thing i did when i got home is find this forum and research it. well i looked at my gun and found that it had one port... so i removed the gasblock and found 2 other ports that were covered so what i did was the D mod to the gas block and enlarged the 3 ports with a 3/32 drill bit well after this the gun was cycling much much better but would occasionally have a FTE and would not cycle from the hip at all and before you ask "why do you need your gun to cycle from the hip?" well i want it to be 100% reliable in any position. so i decided to get a professional involved and i sent out my parts to pauly to be polished and profiled and it came back great now it still wont cycle properly from the hip but it is better. I ordered a vplug and went back to the range and it made no difference at all setting 5 was the same as setting 2 on the factory plug i even tried removing my Chaos rail at the range and it made no difference at all. now this is where im at just ordered a MD arms Booster puck from CSS and it should be here tomorrow but if that dosnt work i dont know. i feel like ive done everything i could have done to fix my problem maybe a 4th smaller gas port? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 i imagine the booster puck will work, too well maybe. i have the css puck which i bought because you can also use high brass but i havn't had a chance to test it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Im right there with you but I havent done the D mod to the gas block yet but I do have the booster puck and it has seemed to help out alot. I got a video of my saiga up on the Youtube look up tfblkhwkguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 yea im hoping the booster puck will work but when you have done so much to a weapon to make it work i can only expect the booster puck not to work lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 lol yeah i hear you......how hard was the gas block D mod? I might do it this weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 i removed the gas block with my press but i hear some can do it with a hammer but a press is so much easier. after its removed i just used a hand file to make sure the other 2 ports wouldnt be covered Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 here ya go http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/33836-modification-to-repair-fte-issues-on-saigas-with-blocked-gas-ports/page__p__301796__hl__+gas%20+block%20+removal__fromsearch__1#entry301796 imo this should be stickied 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 its easy to remove with a hammer, theres a tutorial on here somewhere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 How much for the polishing and who did it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Batt, is the gas block canted? Also, I'd check for spots of resistance on the rails with nothing but the carrier in the gun so you can feel any spots where there's more resistance than others, then address just those spots on the rails. Next, I'd try the extractor slot fix; http://forum.saiga-1...post__p__480426 Polishing the chamber wouldn't hurt either, but just polish. Also, I might try a CSS puck to see if the increased length of stroke helps. If the gas block's not far enough back, the stroke won't be long enough & the CSS puc can help that. Of course, next there's the gun's timing, but you'd want someone like Jack to work with you on that. He's a little bit west of you in LA. How much for the polishing and who did it? $160.00 for GlassBolt & IceRack lol yeah i hear you......how hard was the gas block D mod? I might do it this weekend. Some absolutely require a press, but many can easily be tapped off with a hammer & cold-chisel against the raised part at the underside of the gas block. The biggest sonofabitch is when they almost drill the upper retaining pin hole too low but then "correct" by coming in from the other side at a slightly different angle, then press the pin in. You'll be talking in tongues as you break punch after punch if they pulled that shit on your gun, if so, controlled heat is one's friend. Once the gas block's off, the D-mod is most quickly done with Dremel chainsaw sharpening stones (long & thin little needle-stones) then dressing it up with a small file. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 thanks again Pauly! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Try this. Remove the dust cover and recoil spring. Then pull the trigger and hold it back while you hand cycle the bolt. Holding the trigger down, place the rifle in a vertical position with the bolt barely unlocked. Now, while still holding the trigger down (this will have the hammer being held in place by the disconnecter) release the bolt and watch it drop. If it drops all the way down and literally jumps out of the receiver, you are good to go. If it doesn't, you need to ID your friction point. In my S12, it turned out that the axis retaining plate was creating friction on my bolt carrier and dragging it to a halt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Batt, You got carried away with that "D" mod. I do not advocate it. You are loosing more gas than you should where there used to be metal in the red area below. I'm not saying that is the only issue, but it is probably contributing to it. It isn't meant to be precision tight, but it isn't supposed to have an open Door there either. The threads probably get fouled much sooner than they did before too. The intention of the "D" mod is to allow gas to escape from covered ports. For some reason, people have decided that it means modifying the surface area of the orifice in the gas chamber. Not neccessary. All it needs is a bevel where the gas block contacts the barrel around the ports. It can be done in a few minutes with one of these, but don't go crazy. Measure the width and length of your port pattern and make the bevel a slight amount larger in every direction where the gas block contacts the barrel around the ports. Do not get carried away on the front edge of the orifice or you will grind through and have the same issue that you will get with the "D" mod. I saw some spare parts for sale here recently. I believe it was VermontMadman that had them. You might grab another gas block. Or.... send that one to Pauly or someone that is a good welder and have them build that edge back up and get you sealed a little better. You may need more gas even after that is fixed, but one step at a time. My "Flawless" S12 has 4 ports @ .093". The AK100 rear block is holding up fine and the weapon fires just about anything reliably. It looks like everything else on yours is GTG from here. ETA: take that quad off until you get the weapon running well. Then, if it fails again after you put it back on there, you will know that there is an issue that is most likely related to the quad rail. Edited December 11, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 here ya go http://forum.saiga-1...__1#entry301796 imo this should be stickied That used to be stickied. I used that thread too. I wonder why it's not anymore...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 my rails are fine with nothing in the gun the colt carrier slides on the rails with ease. as for the extractor slot i assumed that was only for FTF problems wich i did have and i did do that to the extractor slot and it cured all my FTF problems but i have FTE problems. and as for fouling i dont have that problem at all sure it gets dirty but there are almost never any particles in the gasblock and every time i check the ports are always clear. as for DLT i tried what you said and only resistance i get is with the hammer but its already profiled by Pauly and if i let go of the bolt carrier it still drops all the way down to the receiver just no bounce like you said just a thud lol. and as for evlblkwpnz ill take what you said into consideration but after i test with the booster puck, there would be no reason to do all of that if the booster puck works Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Has the hammer been re profiled to match the factory hammer" The larger Saiga bolt needs the clearance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Pauly re profiled my hammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I am an advocate if nearly all MD products , but the benefit of the MD booster puck is negligible, at best. I have first hand experience wit it. I have wanted to try the CSS puck as many here seem to favor it. Filling that gap where the D mod was done would be a last resort after all other options have been employed, unless you can weld. It would drive me crazy just knowing it was like that and I would fix it just because. OCD.... And all of that. I hope you get that thing running to your liking. Nothing more frustrating than an anemic S12. It is nice when people see that sucker run flawlessly and start asking questions about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Pauly re profiled my hammer Don't take any more off brother... I match my hammers to the underside of the carriers & just leave a cunthair of room so it all still works as the hammer gets beaten down from a lot of shooting. Some of my hammers are larger than others, if the underside of the carrier was thinner than others, but they're matched sets. The way I currently ramp the underside of the carrier in GlassBolt to reset the hammer easier during the extraction cycle, if you remove much more than I do, the hammer will not catch into the disconnector. I've seen what happens to a hammer after 10,000 rounds so I leave it just a touch larger than just on the verge of not working so it will not malfunction with heavy use. If a hammer is made smaller than I do for the carrier it's matched to, the disconnector's catch surface must be raised, then the disconnector must be adjusted to sit further forward when resting. If this is not done, either the hammer will eventually end up following the carrier rather than catching into the disconnector, or it will skip the sear & discharge as you release the trigger... So yeah, the hammer's good. I test each & every FCG/carrier combo in my shop-gun before shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 i wasnt questioning your work man should test fire sometime next week with a forum member that just got a new s12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThGdThBd&ThUgly 0 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) I am having the exact same issue as Battosaii. I just completed my conversion and it won't cycle. After reading thru all these suggestions I am curious about the test that DLT suggested. I removed my cover and spring pushed the Tapco hammer down and held it back with trigger and let my bolt fall after lifting the gun vertical. The bolt caught on the hammer and with out some help it won't slide past and out of the receiver. Can I clarence the hammer with my Dremel accordingly or will that cause other issues? Edited December 11, 2011 by ThGdThBd&ThUgly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThGdThBd&ThUgly 0 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Not all at once! :-D Any Advise? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Not all at once! :-D Any Advise? Have you read all the stickies? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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