Project: evlblk-M.A.G.12

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

As many know, I won the TAC47 M.A.G.12 magwell giveaway. I would like to start by saying "Thank you!" to TAC47, yet again, for your generousity. These kind of giveaways rally the forum body and give us something (that is usually really cool) to look forward to possibly winning.... and we all like winning! Also, it is a great way to get new products out there in the hands of some guys that might not otherwise consider using or realize the benefit of such an item.

 

For me, the win has sparked much internal debate. I have 4- S12s that are already exactly like I want them, a NIB optic railed model, and a NIB non-railed model. Out of those, I am having a hard time deciding which one to put the M.A.G.12 magwell on, but I have it narrowed down to a few options.

 

The intended use for the M.A.G.12 will be on a 3 Gun rig. Barrel length is my "hangup" and the main source of my indecision. I seek the advice of those who know more about 3 Gun than I do (which isn't a lot, lol). I will be using a PolyChoke or may get one of those fine Winchoke adapters that Cobra sells.

 

Which Saiga 12 should I install the M.A.G.12 magwell on if I intend to use it for 3 Gun?

 

1- 24" IZ-107 (converted/welded, reliable, scope rail intact, and fixed WARSAW stock)

 

2- 18" IZ-109 (converted/welded, reliable, no scope rail, cut/crowned/rethreaded @ 18 1/16", and AK100 triangle folder)

 

3- 19" IZ-109 (NIB, 100% factory, no scope rail.... essentially an empty canvas on which I can paint a completely new picture) I'm leaning toward this one....

 

4- 11 3/8" IZ-109 (converted, no scope rail, AK100 polymer folder, and I await an approved Form 1 for SBS) I'm confident that I can get this thing running well with a standard length gas system and a choke. However, I am concerned that I may have trouble knocking down steel with it. Also, I will not be able to take it across state lines without prior permission from the BATFE. There may be some 3 Gun events in SE GA that I may want to attend and this might not be a convienient choice.

 

Help a brother out!

 

BTW The wife just bought me a GoPro HD Hero 2 camera, so some better videos will be shot in the near future.... maybe even some slo-mo POV action I will most certainly be doing a live fire review of the M.A.G.12 and possibly some 3 Gun footage in late January!

Edited December 12, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[datrowl 111]

If #1 were a 19 inch i'd say it would just about fit the bill but that damn 24inch barrel gonna play hell with cover fire drills in a 3 gun match. I would be alot less inclined to put a folder on it for a dedicated 3gun build as well as the odds of ever useing it in a match folded will be slim and none....

 

Looks like a good excuse to work on gun #3 to me

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

If #1 were a 19 inch i'd say it would just about fit the bill but that damn 24inch barrel gonna play hell with cover fire drills in a 3 gun match. I would be alot less inclined to put a folder on it for a dedicated 3gun build as well as the odds of ever useing it in a match folded will be slim and none....

 

Looks like a good excuse to work on gun #3 to me

Well stated. These were some of the things that I was concerned about. With a choke, I'll be near 21" on #3 and it seems like almost every shotgun that I saw at my first match were 20" + win or Rem choke. The integrated trigger guard on the magwell almost makes it a no-brainer to use #3 too. I already have a MD grip and PG screw. All that I will need to be converted will be a FCG, retainer plate, and a WARSAW stock. I need some SGM mags from CSS as well. I have to say that Greg is always helpful when I call and I never get that "I'd rather be doing anything other than talking to you" feeling from him. +1 for CSS

 

BTW You never know, I may get this magwell and decide to put one on #1.... just because I'll have mags for it. I have a feeling that I will like the utility of the M.A.G.12. I ordered a couple of Autoplugs today and it sounds like M.A.G.12s will be going out the door of TAC47 in the next week or so. The gentleman on the phone said they were delayed during anodizing. Stuff happens and I'd rather wait for one that looks right than to get one that is purple or blue because it was rushed....

Edited December 12, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[elvis christ 451]

I don't know much about the magwell, but if it has trigger guard integrated, and you're looking for a dedicated gun for competition, #3 seems like the logical choice. You could add a rail if you ever felt the need for optics on your shotgun.

 

Also, if you're worried about the length, you shouldn't be. What's a couple of inches on a shotgun? If most people are running 20" guns and you're at 19", no big deal.

[geepelton 105]

I agree #1 in a 19". What are you going to do when JT comes out with his new magwell that's work with your beloved MD drums?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I agree #1 in a 19". What are you going to do when JT comes out with his new magwell that's work with your beloved MD drums?

Shhhh..... I'm trying to ignore that product for now. Maybe I can win one (yeah right) and do a "Battle of the Magwells" video. FTW!!!!

 

Wait.... #1 is a 24". Did you mean #3. I feel like i'm at a drive-thru, lol!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I don't know much about the magwell, but if it has trigger guard integrated, and you're looking for a dedicated gun for competition, #3 seems like the logical choice. You could add a rail if you ever felt the need for optics on your shotgun.

 

Also, if you're worried about the length, you shouldn't be. What's a couple of inches on a shotgun? If most people are running 20" guns and you're at 19", no big deal.

I have been considering something small like a Burris FasfireII. R&R has a nice looking mount system that goes where the rear sight is..

[geepelton 105]

I'm confused, 19" with fixed stock.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Rangerguy

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I'm confused, 19" with fixed stock.

That would be #3 with the soon-to-be-purchased polymer WARSAW.

[geepelton 105]

I say that would be good.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I say that would be good.

+1 #3 is kicking ass in this poll.

[gunfun 3,931]

I vote use the 19". I know many competitors use the long barrel, but chokes exist, and who wants all that clumsy length. If you are worried about velocity, use a hotter round.

 

I too would love to see those magwells going head to head. I love the JT I have, The Mag12 looks to be functionally equivalent, but that drumwell...

It's always cool watching the guys with sponsorships blaze though the changes, but to see what a normal enthusiastic amateur can do gives me hope.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I vote use the 19". I know many competitors use the long barrel, but chokes exist, and who wants all that clumsy length. If you are worried about velocity, use a hotter round.

 

I too would love to see those magwells going head to head. I love the JT I have, The Mag12 looks to be functionally equivalent, but that drumwell...

It's always cool watching the guys with sponsorships blaze though the changes, but to see what a normal enthusiastic amateur can do gives me hope.

I've been considering using #6 shot.

 

It doesn't take me long to learn things or understand what I need to change within myself or equipment to make sthings go easier or better. After the first stage with shotgun, I was confident that a magwell or LRBHO would be worth its weight in gold. At that moment, I suppose you could say I "got it". I'm sure that the M.A.G.12 could have shaved at least 20-30 seconds off of my overall time. I shoot clays without looking at the sights, but there were things in the 3 Gun comp that would have been easier with sights/red dot, such as the Texas Star and the plates that were far back. I am extremely excited about using a shotgun that a little closer to what would be ideal for 3 Gun. The handguard for my Multi-Gun AR finally arrived, so maybe I will see an improvement there. I know that using the wife's SBR when shooting from barricades was tough. It was the only AR that was complete at the time. Everything else was missing a barrel or a handguard. I have "the bug", for sure, but probably won't be attending any events until January. I suppose you could call it a tactical retreat While I'm waiting on #3 S12 to arrive and work on it, here's a pic of the AR. This thing is stupid-accurate for a non-SS barrel...

 

[geepelton 105]

I switched to #6 shot and it does make a difference. The steel and poppers seem to fall a little easier, plus it shoots faster and its the same price As bulk stuff.

[jdtravers 637]

Note: Most ranges will not allow shot larger than 7 1/2, so #6 is out! Depends on who owns the steel you are shooting at also. 18.500 is as long as you need on a barrel for a Saiga. The 21" and 24" barrels are for matching the magazine tube length or for balance/ergonomics (tube guns). Total velocity out of a shotgun is generally achieved within about 8-12 inches. Shotgun powder is used in many pistol loads and is a fast burning powder.

 

Length does not give more accuracy or velocity.

 

Machine the barrel for chokes. Anything else is lacking (if you are serious about the game). Red dot is not necessary if you have 20/20 vision, it is faster to shoot irons/bead, find your 50 yard zero for slugs.

 

Practice, practice, practice. 90% of your practice should be dry firing.

 

Folding stocks have no purpose on a competition/working shotgun.

 

Jack

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

why dont you cut the barrel and permanently attach a polychoke to keep it at 18.5"

[datrowl 111]

That Troy handguard on your AR is the same one I have on mine... Love that Fin thing man...good looking piece of kit ya got there

[gunfun 3,931]

why dont you cut the barrel and permanently attach a polychoke to keep it at 18.5"

 

 

Why not cut the barrel, internally thread for a choke and permanently affix a compensator? That's what I would want and/or mid comps.

 

As for what Jack said about velocity. --Yes, but a lot of people still get long barrels because they think it is needed for velocity. They don't seem to know we aren't still stuck with the powders available in 1910. I have seen numerous posts and heard numerous people say they didn't want an 18" barrel for hunting or competition because it wouldn't make velocity. For some hand loaders it can make a difference on the really light loads with certain powder burn rates. That's why I mentioned it. The myth comes up enough that it needs mentioned. Why solve a non-problem with an extra 6" of pipe that could be "solved" by using more common ammo?

Edited December 13, 2011 by GunFun

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Note: Most ranges will not allow shot larger than 7 1/2, so #6 is out! Depends on who owns the steel you are shooting at also. 18.500 is as long as you need on a barrel for a Saiga. The 21" and 24" barrels are for matching the magazine tube length or for balance/ergonomics (tube guns). Total velocity out of a shotgun is generally achieved within about 8-12 inches. Shotgun powder is used in many pistol loads and is a fast burning powder.

 

Length does not give more accuracy or velocity.

 

Machine the barrel for chokes. Anything else is lacking (if you are serious about the game). Red dot is not necessary if you have 20/20 vision, it is faster to shoot irons/bead, find your 50 yard zero for slugs.

 

Practice, practice, practice. 90% of your practice should be dry firing.

 

Folding stocks have no purpose on a competition/working shotgun.

 

Jack

Rem or Win chokes? It looks like the ream and tap will be around $290.

 

Really, I don't honestly expect to be a great 3 Gunner or a strong competitor. It is something that I have been interested in for a few years now and never could lock down an event that was nearby. After trying it, I think that I could get OK at it and have a good time. I love these shotguns and another excuse to spend a day shooting one is a great excuse. It feels great to show the Mossberg, Remington, and Benelli boys that my crude little Russian shotgun can send lead downrange fast and reliably too.

 

I just want to build an S12 that will be a little more user friendly when it comes to mag changes and stay fairly lightweight. I may even commit blasphemy by putting a VLTOR Modstock on there. I have one and a milspec tube that I have been trying to figure out what to do with it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

That Troy handguard on your AR is the same one I have on mine... Love that Fin thing man...good looking piece of kit ya got there

The Alphas are my favorite. You should see my latest SBR build.... sick.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

This project will be moving soon! TAC47 is ready to ship the magwell and basically waiting on me to order some other stuff from them. I'm excited!

[TTMR 11]

Duh, #3!

 

Then you will need another NIB clean slate...

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

The build is done. Looks great, IMO, but function was what I was looking forward to the most and the M.A.G.12 certainly delivers that. I am waiting to do the review because I want to post some footage of this thing in action and my GoPro camera is still on backorder. There is a 3 Gun event in March and I hope to get some good POV footage of at least one of the shotgun stages. Can't thank TAC47 enough for their generousity. This magwell is badass. Only bad thing about it is that I am looking at some of my other S12s with evl thoughts of putting M.A.G.12 magwells on them too.... I am so broke right now.

 

This was all of the factory weapon that was actually used in the build.... (handguard from another S12 was used as well)

 

This is the final product....

 

I may ream and thread the barrel for WIN chokes if I can scare up enough play cash for the tools. At $300 for the ream and tap, it may be a while. The PolyChoke did tighten things up a bit, but I'd like to get a head-sized pattern at 50 ft with Federal Multi-Purpose. I'm not sure if it is possible to do that, but the WIN chokes will save me a little weight, if nothing else.

Edited February 4, 2012 by evlblkwpnz

[lbsrdi 1,078]

I really love the style of that gun. Looks really good man. Can't wait to see her in action. Nice build!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I really love the style of that gun. Looks really good man. Can't wait to see her in action. Nice build!

 

I appreciate the compliment and support. I wanted to keep this one simple and fairly light. I had the urge to install an AK100 on it, but figured it would be more practical with the KVar WARSAW on there and I could change it later, if needed. The MAGPUL RVG looks almost like it could have came on the weapon from the factory and doesn't break the bank. This was my first 2011 model and I am glad I installed the M.A.G.12 on this one. As always, the MOLOT grip is my choice over all others, even the Izzy grip. The weapon actually feels better and handles better than I expected. I think the use of 10 and 12 round mags with this magwell have a lot to do with the great handling vs. using 20 round drums.

 

Until recently, I never understood people's choice to use a magwell when 20 round drums are available. After testing this thing during the second session and shooting some steel, I get it (12 plates and 16 sihlouettes set up in 3 "mini" stages.... in 37 seconds). That is blisteringly fast compared to what I was doing with drums. I wasn't even counting my shots and leaving one in the chamber for mag changes with no manipulation of the charging handle, so I could have been a bit faster.

 

Had TAC47 not been generous enough to let us have an opportunity to win one of these, I would have likely never experienced a S12 magwell and would have continued to live " in the dark". I have no direct experience with any of the other magwells, but I can honestly say that I like the looks of this one much better than anything else on the market.

 

I have been focused on a CHF AR15 barrel comparison up until the last week or so and I am trying to recouperate financially from that. Finally, no thanks to botachtactical.com (made me wait months to tell me to get it elsewhere after having it on backorder since early December), I have my GoPro HD Hero2 camera. I plan to do a shoot and full review of the TAC47 M.A.G.12 magwell soon. Only thing that sucks is that I have no clue where to start with editing, so I won't be able to post any slo mo clips. I was really looking forward to that part, but it looks like I will need to find out what editing software to get and how to use it. I have a lot of work right now, but I will be shooting video soon when I can have a good full day to shoot footage. I may throw in some video of me shooting the same mini stages with the evlblk-box-o-parts gun, as a little performance comparison. If anyone knows what editing software might be easy for an editing and GoPro newb to use, please contact me. I really want to do TAC47 and the M.A.G.12 some justice with the video and full review when I post it. Any help appreciated.

 

Thank you TAC47!

[HarleyF250Guy 0]

Looks good man!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

I can give you my first hand advice since I run a Saiga in 3 Gun. The magwell is critical and the AR style mag release makes mag changes a breeze. I run the TAC47 on both my SBS and Race Gun with great success. I have also installed a left handed charging handle on the bolt, it makes charging the gun from cruiser ready a snap and mag changes a lot faster since your hand never leaves the pistol grip. You can drop the mag grab another and recharge without ever taking your eyes off the sights. As for sights run a red dot, you are going to be in open class since you run a Saiga so you might as well take advantage and run the red dot. I also think the AR safety is a huge improvement over the AK and would highly recommend doing that. Also the biggest improvement in shooting fast and flat is the mid barrel compensator, but for that you must move the gas system back. I started with a 19" gun but lost about 3/4 of an inch when I threaded the inside of the barrel for Rem chokes. I will post some picts and a right up of my build once it gets back from paint, I am still waiting on the mid barrel comp but I shoot my friends R&R race gun at every match and I hope it shoots as good as that gun.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Niner,

I appreciate the tips. I agree, the AR style safety would be excellent. Where can I get one?

 

I'll probably get set up to internally thread for WIN chokes eventually. The PolyChoke helps, but damn that thing is heavy.

 

I'm not interested in the mid barrel comps. I'm sure they help a great deal, but I'm not really trying to be a serious competitor. I'm just wanting to have fun and eventually smoke the local 870 and 500 guys Maybe later though....

 

Can someone please help me figure out which file converting and video editing software is compatible with GoPro HD Hero2 cameras.... and is easy to use

 

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Niner,

I appreciate the tips. I agree, the AR style safety would be excellent. Where can I get one?

 

I'll probably get set up to internally thread for WIN chokes eventually. The PolyChoke helps, but damn that thing is heavy.

 

I'm not interested in the mid barrel comps. I'm sure they help a great deal, but I'm not really trying to be a serious competitor. I'm just wanting to have fun and eventually smoke the local 870 and 500 guys Maybe later though....

 

Can someone please help me figure out which file converting and video editing software is compatible with GoPro HD Hero2 cameras.... and is easy to use

 

 

R&R sells the AR safety lever, you need to weld up the AK safety holes which is a little work, and then layout very carefully the holes for the AR safety lever. Everyone talks about not being to competitive until they get out there, the mid barrel comp will totally change the way you shoot. The mid barrel comp will allow you to get back on the next target at least .5 second quicker! Doesn't seem like much until you figure most shotgun stages have between 15-20 targets.