ramlake 98 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) My first dissapointing impresions after disassembling the legion IZ-433 I have found: 1) The front handgaurd retainer is only a slip fit on the barrel, no locking lever. It can slip forward during firing. 2) The gas system is non self adjusting as I first thought. It is fixed, and probably tuned for a limited range of ammo. probably military / law enforcement/ buckshot loads. There is no compensating device present. This system could be easily duplicated but why? 3) Front buttstock latch spring is installed in lower handgaurd. Latch and openings not present. Many more small differences. Pics on the way Edited January 17, 2012 by RamLake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 the system is designed as to not need adjusting. Where did you pick yours up? I just ordered through Legion USA's web site as none of the distributors have them in stock yet. But, I still need their fax # as it's not on their site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Pics? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Pics? Lots of this^^^ Or a Video would be nice too Edited January 17, 2012 by AZG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Gas block with thru hole Note retainer with no locking ability, just a slip fit. Edited January 18, 2012 by RamLake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 The front fits like a krink. What is the problem? Does the rear slip out or something? I guess I'm not seeing the problem here... It looks unfired. Did you shoot it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 It looks like there are 5 gas ports, haven't seen that before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 The front fits like a krink. What is the problem? Does the rear slip out or something? I guess I'm not seeing the problem here... It looks unfired. Did you shoot it? Acually not like a krink at all. Krink has a locking cam and lever on lower retainer just like any other AK. This does not. that's my concern. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ahhh, reading comprehension... I thought you were talking about the front of the top handguard slipping into the retainer. I see what you mean, the retainer istelf slipping onto the barrel. Hmmm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 It looks like there are 5 gas ports, haven't seen that before. It's a 030. I guess not many of us have. 5 ports .070" ( #50 ) drill in a large pattern. More holes with smaller dia. help with fouling, better than fewer larger holes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 The fat barrel under the grip must be preventing from using the "standard" ak style retainer lever. Wonder of the Vepr's are different? In regards to adjustability, I have read several reviews on the Vepr 12 that ran 24g target load birdshot fine. One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) 28g loads worked fine too. I'm anxious to get mine.. Still need that damn fax # for legion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lelandeod 179 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 When you get Legion's fax number, please post it here. I need it too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 The fat barrel under the grip must be preventing from using the "standard" ak style retainer lever. Wonder of the Vepr's are different? In regards to adjustability, I have read several reviews on the Vepr 12 that ran 24g target load birdshot fine. One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) 28g loads worked fine too. I'm anxious to get mine.. Still need that damn fax # for legion Granted barrel dia. would not allow "standard" AK style lever butt this should not have given them a reason for no locking mechanism at all? Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. I should have video testing soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 When you get Legion's fax number, please post it here. I need it too. I dug through my old emails from alex from legion USA and in his signature was this fax # 305-436-3753 which is a FL area code atleast.. there 888 # goes no where and says the voicebox is full then disconnects Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lelandeod 179 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 When you get Legion's fax number, please post it here. I need it too. I dug through my old emails from alex from legion USA and in his signature was this fax # 305-436-3753 which is a FL area code atleast.. there 888 # goes no where and says the voicebox is full then disconnects My invoice says Legion USA, Boston, MA... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 thats the weird thing. FL is what the import stamps say on the side of the guns. The Boston MA # hasn't ever worked for me. the two real emails I have for them are: alex@legionusainc.com jacob@legionusainc.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 thats the weird thing. FL is what the import stamps say on the side of the guns. The Boston MA # hasn't ever worked for me. the two real emails I have for them are: alex@legionusainc.com jacob@legionusainc.com Also the checkout is not a secure website.....no HTTPS:// so don't use debit cards....no protection at all. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lelandeod 179 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Terrific... Wish I had known that yesterday! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 so it appears the 030 did come with the same gas system as the usdrag 030?not a standard one we are used to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vitamink 90 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 from the picture it looks as though the barrel thickens keeping the retainer from sliding, though i may be looking at the wrong side. Is there any info on a true 030 gas system that we can compare this one to? I hope it off gasses the excess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think all we have to go by is images. It's the same gas system as the "military" version as well as the Vepr 12. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/20380-new-model-saigas/ I have read two things, a shorter spring and puck (shortened by one "band/groove") will allow cheap bird shot. And others claim it runs 28g shells no problem. But, in reality, I dont think this gun was intended to shoot much birdshot. We will just have to fiddle w/ it so we can shoot cheap wally world ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 The fat barrel under the grip must be preventing from using the "standard" ak style retainer lever. Wonder of the Vepr's are different? In regards to adjustability, I have read several reviews on the Vepr 12 that ran 24g target load birdshot fine. One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) 28g loads worked fine too. I'm anxious to get mine.. Still need that damn fax # for legion Granted barrel dia. would not allow "standard" AK style lever butt this should not have given them a reason for no locking mechanism at all? Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. I should have video testing soon. Well, to each his own, only my internals are polished so you can't tell from the outside of the weapon, but you are correct, the Russians don't need polishing since the gun is designed to cycle ammunition that is more powerful than ours... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. You are right, Russian military and police don' t polish their Vepr-12 and Saiga-030 they use magnum shell (44g) without problems - no any reason to use light weight shot shells (24-28 g)!!! Polish guys who want to use 28 g for some reason. After several hundred shots Vepr-12 eats 28 g without polish, don't like polish upgrade puck and spring to short versions for stable work with 28 g shells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) Yes, they started to produce them again for hunters, they calld Fetter Retro 32g, (12/65 and 12/70) and they cost twice as much as plastic shells 32 g. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. You are right, Russian military and police don' t polish their Vepr-12 and Saiga-030 they use magnum shell (44g) without problems - no any reason to use light weight shot shells (24-28 g)!!! Polish guys who want to use 28 g for some reason. After several hundred shots Vepr-12 eats 28 g without polish, don't like polish upgrade puck and spring to short versions for stable work with 28 g shells. Sounds like testing is needed to verify which popular american ammo operates properly and which tappet / puck and spring operates without rear truniun damage. The fat barrel under the grip must be preventing from using the "standard" ak style retainer lever. Wonder of the Vepr's are different? In regards to adjustability, I have read several reviews on the Vepr 12 that ran 24g target load birdshot fine. One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) 28g loads worked fine too. I'm anxious to get mine.. Still need that damn fax # for legion Granted barrel dia. would not allow "standard" AK style lever butt this should not have given them a reason for no locking mechanism at all? Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. I should have video testing soon. Well, to each his own, only my internals are polished so you can't tell from the outside of the weapon, but you are correct, the Russians don't need polishing since the gun is designed to cycle ammunition that is more powerful than ours... So their less than lethal is also more powerful than ours? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) Yes, they started to produce them again for hunters, they calld Fetter Retro 32g, (12/65 and 12/70) and they cost twice as much as plastic shells 32 g. The paper shells shred in a self loading action. Not recommended in S-12's!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
moshaholic2 1 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just got an update. The correct fax number for legion is the one listed above. They are all at shot and will ship anything ordered this week on Monday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battosaii 99 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 305 is a Miami area code didnt know Legion is where i live Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. You are right, Russian military and police don' t polish their Vepr-12 and Saiga-030 they use magnum shell (44g) without problems - no any reason to use light weight shot shells (24-28 g)!!! Polish guys who want to use 28 g for some reason. After several hundred shots Vepr-12 eats 28 g without polish, don't like polish upgrade puck and spring to short versions for stable work with 28 g shells. Sounds like testing is needed to verify which popular american ammo operates properly and which tappet / puck and spring operates without rear truniun damage. The fat barrel under the grip must be preventing from using the "standard" ak style retainer lever. Wonder of the Vepr's are different? In regards to adjustability, I have read several reviews on the Vepr 12 that ran 24g target load birdshot fine. One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) 28g loads worked fine too. I'm anxious to get mine.. Still need that damn fax # for legion Granted barrel dia. would not allow "standard" AK style lever butt this should not have given them a reason for no locking mechanism at all? Yes I hope light loads work for I am not a fan of polishing anything on an AK. Obviously proper breakin and some tuning works but I don't want a bling military weapon. I doubt the russian millitary are sending their weapons off to have them honed and polished. I should have video testing soon. Well, to each his own, only my internals are polished so you can't tell from the outside of the weapon, but you are correct, the Russians don't need polishing since the gun is designed to cycle ammunition that is more powerful than ours... So their less than lethal is also more powerful than ours? Well, one would have to assume, unless they build the sporter Saigas that they send to us differently than their own... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 One guy had problems using paper shells (they make those still???) Yes, they started to produce them again for hunters, they calld Fetter Retro 32g, (12/65 and 12/70) and they cost twice as much as plastic shells 32 g. The paper shells shred in a self loading action. Not recommended in S-12's!! Of cause only for classic 1-2 barrels shotguns! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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