Bravo One 5 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yo B one, what state is this land in? You mentioned deer and hogs as animals, depending on where this land is. It might make a difference on the choices. The East Texas Region. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I voted other. PSL. lightweight. more bang for the buck. just as handy as any ak platform out there. Reloads can be any .308 dia. bullet on the market surplus is cheap and shoots well. I shouldnt have to "sell it"... BUT... you havent ever shot one, or you would not even have started this poll. and... If you whine about the lack of "hi-caps" ... you are either doing something wrong with your trigger finger. Or are too lazy to swap mags. Sure, you CAN reload 7.62x54R with .308 diameter projectiles, but you won't get great accuracy. .311 or .312 bullets are intended for that caliber, unless you have a Finnish Mosin that was rebarreled with a .308 diameter bore. Ignore what you have READ on the internet about what you GOTTA feed a PSL... because that is ENTIRELY NOT TRUE... ( At least in *MY* experience with one of my rifles. ) I shoot .308 diameter, 168 grain hornady HPBT match bullets out of mine... and with timed shots and a cool barrel I can place 10 rounds under a QUARTER at 100 yards all day long. I am not sure how much you need to squeeze out of YOUR PSL... but that is PLENTY enough accurate for me. ALSO, That is shooting point of impact exactly at point of aim with a cold barrel. So I know that my FIRST SHOT will always be going where I have aimed it... ( within its margin of error of course ) Sure it will string em if you start blowing off mags as fast as you can swap em out... That is an issue with ALL PSL rifles.... but the whole point is using your rounds SMART... If you are hunting you should only need ONE shot to put down a critter. I also reload 150 grain FMJ and soft point which will shoot a LITTLE worse... about an inch and a half at 100 yards with 5 round groups... that is still plenty accurate... It makes no difference in my particular rifle whether I load .311 or .308... BOTH shoot WELL... and to be honest... when I REALLY nurse the load ( as above) the .308 match bullets shoot BETTER! Again.. this is just my personal experience with MY rifle... yours may be totally different... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Oh.... And anytime ya wanna come over and shoot it, you can verify for yourself that it will shoot that well... Load data available on request via PM. LOL not that it would necessarily work in YOUR rifle as well as it does in mine... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Ok one more question, have you shot and carried around a Saiga 308? The reason I ask is, if you can handle the weight the 308 will be the best choice for hunting and anything else that might be out there with you. If you don't like the weight, go with the x39. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 If Weight is an issue... I STILL stick with my choice... The PSL is a bit lighter, overall, than the Saiga 308 with a 21" barrel. It may not beat out the X39 with a shorter barrel... but its going to be close. Anoither thing that totally KILLS me... is the "Need for a sustained rate of fire"... OK... Seriously... SUre you can WHAT IF till the cows come home, and then include THEM in the conversation too... but I would seriously bet CASH that chances are at no point in your life are you going to be out there in a firefight against other HUMAN TARGETS! With that said... lets just pretend that you REALLY DO need to KILL PEOPLE... I would not be looking for sustained rates of fire... but would strive for more guerilla tactics... sniping, and making EVERY SINGLE SHOT COUNT!!! Its TEOTWAWKI... you are NOT going to be blowing off your ammo all willynilly as fast as you can pull the trigger... There will NOT BE ANYMORE ONCE YOURS IS GONE!!!! you are going to do your DAMNDEST to SAVE EVERY ROUND YOU CAN!!! It will be worth more than GOLD at that point... Sure you can hoarde 5000 rounds or more... but if you are blowing off 30 round mags every chance you get... hjow long do you honestly think your ammo is going to LAST?!??!? Just a thought.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo One 5 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Ok one more question, have you shot and carried around a Saiga 308? The reason I ask is, if you can handle the weight the 308 will be the best choice for hunting and anything else that might be out there with you. If you don't like the weight, go with the x39. No, I have not carried around a Saiga .308. I have shot a Bushmaster .308 before and have hauled around AR variants of the .223. ..Anoither thing that totally KILLS me... is the "Need for a sustained rate of fire"... OK... Seriously... SUre you can WHAT IF till the cows come home, and then include THEM in the conversation too... but I would seriously bet CASH that chances are at no point in your life are you going to be out there in a firefight against other HUMAN TARGETS!... Maybe I could have been more accurate in asking about follow up shots, and not sustained rates of fire. The subject of sustained rate of fire does seem to encapsulate follow up shots and more --honestly just after some information that I was unable to find, or answer satisfactorily. And from a purely media driven image of the AK, you can certainly see how one might inquire about sustained rates of fire I do appreciate and agree with your comments regarding encountering significant numbers of Homo infestus --not likely. In the end, it looks like I will be purchasing two different rifle platforms to satisfy my desires. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 In the end, it looks like I will be purchasing two different rifle platforms to satisfy my desires. Get **ALL THREE** platforms mentioned in this post... you will LOVE EVERY ONE!!! Guaranteed!!!! Sure every one has its pro's and con's.... but they are ALL great rifles, and calibers, and ALL are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo One 5 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Get **ALL THREE** platforms mentioned in this post... you will LOVE EVERY ONE!!! Guaranteed!!!! ... Sounds like the trap swinging shut and me being happily ensconced in AK Land. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 That happens after you buy the FIRST and start shooting it... ITs like the ultimate addiction! LOL but then again... Who said its a BAD THING?!?!?!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 dont worry bravo one, i blame this forum for a lot of my addictions!! and its always been a good thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevilGuns 25 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 In the end, it looks like I will be purchasing two different rifle platforms to satisfy my desires. Get **ALL THREE** platforms mentioned in this post... you will LOVE EVERY ONE!!! Guaranteed!!!! Sure every one has its pro's and con's.... but they are ALL great rifles, and calibers, and ALL are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot!! Man this sure sounds like an echo I'm pretty sure I told him to git all them guns. Just try not to tacticool either of yer guns too much or else you'll be heckled into oblivion . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo One 5 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Man this sure sounds like an echo I'm pretty sure I told him to git all them guns. People tell me I can be hard headed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevilGuns 25 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well are you on a budget or is yer credit card screaming use me use me? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo One 5 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Budget, sadly. I impaled myself... with medical bills though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 If Weight is an issue... I STILL stick with my choice... The PSL is a bit lighter, overall, than the Saiga 308 with a 21" barrel. It may not beat out the X39 with a shorter barrel... but its going to be close. Anoither thing that totally KILLS me... is the "Need for a sustained rate of fire"... OK... Seriously... SUre you can WHAT IF till the cows come home, and then include THEM in the conversation too... but I would seriously bet CASH that chances are at no point in your life are you going to be out there in a firefight against other HUMAN TARGETS! With that said... lets just pretend that you REALLY DO need to KILL PEOPLE... I would not be looking for sustained rates of fire... but would strive for more guerilla tactics... sniping, and making EVERY SINGLE SHOT COUNT!!! Its TEOTWAWKI... you are NOT going to be blowing off your ammo all willynilly as fast as you can pull the trigger... There will NOT BE ANYMORE ONCE YOURS IS GONE!!!! you are going to do your DAMNDEST to SAVE EVERY ROUND YOU CAN!!! It will be worth more than GOLD at that point... Sure you can hoarde 5000 rounds or more... but if you are blowing off 30 round mags every chance you get... hjow long do you honestly think your ammo is going to LAST?!??!? Just a thought.... I am waiting on the 27" VEPR in 54R, PSL on steroids! WPA said to be on the lookout! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevilGuns 25 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Budget, sadly. I impaled myself... with medical bills though. Well I'd go x39 right now because it's cheaper to get and easier to find. right now the price is between $350-400 rather then a 308 going for about $560 and up. So add about another $100 for a decent convo kit and you should be squared away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 7.62X39 for 2 legged soft threats/animals 308 for 4 legged threats/animals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 If Weight is an issue... I STILL stick with my choice... The PSL is a bit lighter, overall, than the Saiga 308 with a 21" barrel. It may not beat out the X39 with a shorter barrel... but its going to be close. Anoither thing that totally KILLS me... is the "Need for a sustained rate of fire"... OK... Seriously... SUre you can WHAT IF till the cows come home, and then include THEM in the conversation too... but I would seriously bet CASH that chances are at no point in your life are you going to be out there in a firefight against other HUMAN TARGETS! With that said... lets just pretend that you REALLY DO need to KILL PEOPLE... I would not be looking for sustained rates of fire... but would strive for more guerilla tactics... sniping, and making EVERY SINGLE SHOT COUNT!!! Its TEOTWAWKI... you are NOT going to be blowing off your ammo all willynilly as fast as you can pull the trigger... There will NOT BE ANYMORE ONCE YOURS IS GONE!!!! you are going to do your DAMNDEST to SAVE EVERY ROUND YOU CAN!!! It will be worth more than GOLD at that point... Sure you can hoarde 5000 rounds or more... but if you are blowing off 30 round mags every chance you get... hjow long do you honestly think your ammo is going to LAST?!??!? Just a thought.... Easy on the Straw man argument Indy. Having the ability to do a thing does not mean it is intended to use it foolishly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I would get the 308 for the reason that 39 ammo and 54 ammo can be harder to find at local stores than 308. there is usualy 308 at the gas station sporting stores around here and I have to go to gun stores to find the others.just a thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 If Weight is an issue... I STILL stick with my choice... The PSL is a bit lighter, overall, than the Saiga 308 with a 21" barrel. It may not beat out the X39 with a shorter barrel... but its going to be close. Anoither thing that totally KILLS me... is the "Need for a sustained rate of fire"... OK... Seriously... SUre you can WHAT IF till the cows come home, and then include THEM in the conversation too... but I would seriously bet CASH that chances are at no point in your life are you going to be out there in a firefight against other HUMAN TARGETS! With that said... lets just pretend that you REALLY DO need to KILL PEOPLE... I would not be looking for sustained rates of fire... but would strive for more guerilla tactics... sniping, and making EVERY SINGLE SHOT COUNT!!! Its TEOTWAWKI... you are NOT going to be blowing off your ammo all willynilly as fast as you can pull the trigger... There will NOT BE ANYMORE ONCE YOURS IS GONE!!!! you are going to do your DAMNDEST to SAVE EVERY ROUND YOU CAN!!! It will be worth more than GOLD at that point... Sure you can hoarde 5000 rounds or more... but if you are blowing off 30 round mags every chance you get... hjow long do you honestly think your ammo is going to LAST?!??!? Just a thought.... Easy on the Straw man argument Indy. Having the ability to do a thing does not mean it is intended to use it foolishly. I agree... but ya know what point I am trying to make... It just gets me when some folks ( and I am not necessarily pointing fingers at ANYONE in THIS THREAD... ) feel the need to have a rifle and enough mags to shoot thousands of rounds at a shot... like they are going to be in the worlds biggest firefight next month, and gotta have enough ammo to kill hundreds and thousands of adversaries... LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yeah point taken. The problem is that when folks feel insecure about the world some tend to go overboard. Now fact is we dont know if it was too much, or not enough, until it becomes hindsight. Frankly if you have 15k rounds of 308 and 30 mags stashed you gotta ask yourself...what didn't you do as a result? Moderation in all things is the path to wisdom. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevilGuns 25 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 that reminds me i need to order more mags and ammo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Not to digress too far but outside of reloading supplies and specialty ammo Ive decided enough was enough. When I went all 308 it was a matter of economy, as odd as that may sound, as it was performance. There is simply very little the round cannot do acceptably well in a semi auto or boltie platform with the right bullet/load. Having all your rifles using the same round has proven extremely useful and allowed me to go into things I wouldn't have been able if I was still stocking for three or more high power calibers. I guess that's my case for the 308/NATO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 As a cartridge, a .308 will do anything a 7.62x39 can do and then some. A .7.62x39 cuts your range and energy about in half. The only consideration I see is mag capacity and weight / cost / bulk of ammo and mags. In that case, the 7.62x39 wins. ...but the .308 is a superior, do just about anything at any reasonable distance cartridge (out to possibly 1000 meters). Assuming I had neither,... If I had to pick one AND had the funds for mags and ammo, - .308 If funds are tight and I was willing to settle for "good enough", - 7.62x39. Macbeau sends... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 The only consideration I see is mag capacity and weight / cost / bulk of ammo and mags. Not to nitpick too much I hope, but a csspecs mag weighs roughly the same as a loaded 30 round steel combloc mag, loaded or unloaded. The extra weight in the S308 actually comes from the heavier receiver, bolt carrier, and barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) The only consideration I see is mag capacity and weight / cost / bulk of ammo and mags. Not to nitpick too much I hope, but a csspecs mag weighs roughly the same as a loaded 30 round steel combloc mag, loaded or unloaded. The extra weight in the S308 actually comes from the heavier receiver, bolt carrier, and barrel. Without a magazine inserted, my .308 is exactly a 1/2 pound heavier than my .223 (7.75 lbs vs 7.25 lbs) and about 1 pound heavier than my Draco SBR, again, without magazines. I have 4 Csspec mags, but I also have 20 FBMG's and they work just fine at ounces rather than pounds.. The extra weight of the .308 is mostly in the barrel and, to a much lesser degree, the extra lug on the bolt and trunnion. The receiver is probably a tad lighter due to the mag well hole being slightly bigger. Otherwise, the weights are very similar. Macbeau sends... Edited March 7, 2012 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Heh ever weighed 20 rounds of 308? Heavy stuff compared to 22 cal. Whats the advice of Vikings? Grow Stronger! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Compared to the X-39, the .308 is a LOT heavier - not on the shoulder, but on the WALLET! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well low .20s a round range for cheap x39 low .30s a round for cheap 308. That aint all that bad. If the x39 mil-surp market (Yugo) was as thin as the NATO mil-surp market is that difference would be even less. Given what you get its practically a bargain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dudethebagman 222 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well low .20s a round range for cheap x39 low .30s a round for cheap 308. That aint all that bad. If the x39 mil-surp market (Yugo) was as thin as the NATO mil-surp market is that difference would be even less. Given what you get its practically a bargain. Where are you getting 308 for low .30s per round? The cheapest I found for x39 was 21 cents per round (bulgarian surplus). The cheapest I found for 308 was 36 cents per round (poorly stored and partially corroded Port. surplus). The non-corroded linked stuff was 40 cents. Still, the difference between 21 cents and 36/40 cents adds up fast. Of course, if you need the superior range and power of 308, the price of x39 isn't really relevant. I have both, but the x39 gets shot more often. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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