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Kushnapup Bullpup Stock. MY REVIEW.


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#31 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:23 AM

Also a UTG stock butt pad with holes drilled out carefully can make room for the tangs to fit in the pad so you won't have to cut them or bend them.

#32 -Indy-

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

Is this configuration legal in New York on a saiga 12?


Didnt really want to open THAT can of worms... as you have to deal with INTERPRETATIONS... I am NO LAWYER... what I say here is MY OPINION and MY INTERPRETATION of the NYS penal code...

The definition in the penal code is a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action. That is the moving parts of the firearm.
When you put pistol grips on pump shotguns, they DO NOT protrude beneath the receiver, they are BEHIND IT.
Likewise... Thumbhole stocks ARE in fact legal, and are used frequently, and they too have a grip BEHIND the action, not underneath it, and are CONNECTED to the rest of the stock in the same way that THIS stock is fabricated. The same is true of this. Although, it is not behind, but in FRONT of the action/receiver

I am going with the letter of the law, and this grip DOES NOT protrude conspicuously beneath the action, Therefore not an issue. Posted Image

Quoted from NYS PENAL CODE... Section 265 subsection 22 subsection b.

(b ) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine

No - folding or telescoping.
No - grip BELOW THE ACTION ( again... it is out front... not below the charging handle or "ACTION" )
No - fixed magazine
YES - accepts detachable magazines.

To me that is ONE item, and not an issue. It is like the THUMBHOLE stock configuration.



Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#33 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:14 PM

I was thinking the same as you, I purchased the stock but was hesitent at first to install it on the 12. Have you taken it out to any public ranges yet?

#34 -Indy-

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:15 PM

yes. To my range with about 1200 members. And I have shown it to a shitload of people, everyone LOVES it... never had any questions about it. :up:

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#35 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:17 AM

FYI... for those interested... I have the SHORT RAIL coming from CSS... as the LONG Ultimak rail is out of stock for the fixed sight S12 shotguns. I am thinking It should be here by this weekend, and I hope to have it installed, with optic, and field test/range report posted as soon as possible after all that is completed... :up:


:smoke:


What is this short rail you speak of? Got a link?

#36 mavidal

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:30 AM

FYI... for those interested... I have the SHORT RAIL coming from CSS... as the LONG Ultimak rail is out of stock for the fixed sight S12 shotguns. I am thinking It should be here by this weekend, and I hope to have it installed, with optic, and field test/range report posted as soon as possible after all that is completed... Posted Image


Posted Image


Indy:

I presume this is the one they talked about that replaces the rear fixed sight in the saga 12? I have looked at their website but they don't have it up yet, and am very interested in this.

Thanks

Mike

#37 CarolinaSS

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:35 AM

It will be available in 2 weeks. We made a small change to allow for all the variances in the shotguns. It is 2 3/16" long with 5 slots. It does replace the rear sight on any of the 12, 20 or 410 saiga shotguns.
It will work with any sight that uses a picatinny rail to attach.

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#38 305

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:29 PM

great write up, thanks!

#39 Zambidis

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:43 PM

No - grip BELOW THE ACTION ( again... it is out front... not below the charging handle or "ACTION" )


Is there any case law in NY to support the legality of thumbhole stocks? Is there any case law to support the idea that below the action means directly below it? Is there any law, statute or case law, that would help us extrapolate form how bullpup rifles have been categorized or treated? As someone who has gone to law school and has worked in a prosecutor's office, it seems there is way too much room, in the absence of any strong case law, to argue that the grip is in fact below the action. It is directly below the gas tube where the carrier (part of the action) is moving back and forth. That is about as below the action as the PG in normal AK configuration the carrier moves back and forth over it when the action is cycled. This would seem to make it readily distinguishable from a thumbhole stock that the action does not cycle over. I have won much more tenuous arguments than that in court.

I'm not particularly familiar with NY state gun laws, and I have no idea how the statute cited to has been interpreted by the courts. I will simply say that if it is a blank slate I would feel really uncomfortable banking on the interpretation that the grip is not a pistol grip protruding below the action. Without good case law you are just one judge (who may have a dim view on firearms to begin with) away from saying you are wrong. It likely would cost you 4-5 grand to even hire an attorney to write the brief and make the argument that this doesn't fall under the statute. If you lose and appeal that is going to be thousands more. And of course at the end of all that if you still have lost you will with all likelihood end up with a serious conviction and the consequences that come with it.

With that in mind if it were me I would not be having that thing in NY unless there was much more solid law to use to support the interpretation of the statute that it is not pistol grip that protrudes below the action. I'm obviously not the attorney of anyone here, and I'm not giving anyone legal advise. I am simply saying if it were me, based on my experience in criminal courts and making legal arguments interpreting statutes and case law it would not be a risk I personally would feel very comfortable with.

Edited by Zambidis, 31 May 2012 - 11:45 PM.


#40 GunFun

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:35 AM

Indy -- it seems bizzare to me that anyone would bring such a product to market without a trigger guard... How hard does it look to add one?

I would want one, just for a comfortable place to rest my index finger when holding it off the trigger. I think safe practices are reinforced by having something tangible to feel with your finger when keeping off the trigger. I note that many manufacturers think so too, and that most guns now have a dent or bit of texture in whatever place is most natural for that. For me it is the safety stop or the side of the trigger guard, but it looks like there is no such comfortable rest with the Kush.
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#41 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:23 AM

No - grip BELOW THE ACTION ( again... it is out front... not below the charging handle or "ACTION" )


Is there any case law in NY to support the legality of thumbhole stocks? Is there any case law to support the idea that below the action means directly below it? Is there any law, statute or case law, that would help us extrapolate form how bullpup rifles have been categorized or treated? As someone who has gone to law school and has worked in a prosecutor's office, it seems there is way too much room, in the absence of any strong case law, to argue that the grip is in fact below the action. It is directly below the gas tube where the carrier (part of the action) is moving back and forth. That is about as below the action as the PG in normal AK configuration the carrier moves back and forth over it when the action is cycled. This would seem to make it readily distinguishable from a thumbhole stock that the action does not cycle over. I have won much more tenuous arguments than that in court.

I'm not particularly familiar with NY state gun laws, and I have no idea how the statute cited to has been interpreted by the courts. I will simply say that if it is a blank slate I would feel really uncomfortable banking on the interpretation that the grip is not a pistol grip protruding below the action. Without good case law you are just one judge (who may have a dim view on firearms to begin with) away from saying you are wrong. It likely would cost you 4-5 grand to even hire an attorney to write the brief and make the argument that this doesn't fall under the statute. If you lose and appeal that is going to be thousands more. And of course at the end of all that if you still have lost you will with all likelihood end up with a serious conviction and the consequences that come with it.

With that in mind if it were me I would not be having that thing in NY unless there was much more solid law to use to support the interpretation of the statute that it is not pistol grip that protrudes below the action. I'm obviously not the attorney of anyone here, and I'm not giving anyone legal advise. I am simply saying if it were me, based on my experience in criminal courts and making legal arguments interpreting statutes and case law it would not be a risk I personally would feel very comfortable with.


Very valid points, why would they mention a specific area of the shotgun vs. just saying no pistol grip on a shot gun period. They leave everything so vague so it can cater to whatever purpose they wanna use the laws for at that given time. Both sides of the argument over legality make excellent points making this a true mindf#%k of a grey area.

#42 -Indy-

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:07 AM

As far as a place for a trigger guard... I am sure someone with some molding skills, or a little bit of time and whim and some fiberglas, resin, and paint, could fabricate up anything they wanted... I would say it wouldnt be an EASY thing... but then maybe it wouldnt be to me... and a guy that does bodywork for a living could have one with an exact finish match fabbed up in 30 minutes... so...

To the legality question... Exactly what I said... LOTS of grey area... DO I like that... no... Will it change anything?? probably not right away... maybe down the road I might revert things back... maybe not... Might even TALK to some legal peeps i know and get THEIR 2 cents...

As the president of a local sportsmens club, and working towards my hunter safety course certification, I deal with a LOT of individuals who might shed some better light on this... and if needed... It can come off in about 2 minutes, and go back in its little box for a rainy day... or a sunny one when things change for the better... Posted Image Posted Image

I think a BIG deal of it is that it is utilized at a shooting range. Its not waved around at the mall, or used in any stupid manner which would draw other attention to it, for people to start thinking... "HMM.... whats that?!?!?! Is tHAT right?!?!? " I am willing to bet that seeing how MOST LEO's in the area here are PRO firearms, and love to shoot, they would probably want to put a few rounds downrange with it, and not even consider it has any issues. Posted Image




Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#43 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:43 AM

yeah my problem is im right outside the city limits on long island. And this is a hot topic on my local forum longislandfirearms.com . I know if I brought my s12 with this configuration to the range anywhere around here I would be getting asked about it and gawked at all day, thats my only concern, I would probably wind up with my picture on the forum from another member reporting that they saw one live and in person. Its very grey, I even emailed Kushnapup to see how many approx units were sold to the NY area just to see but I have yet to receive a reply. I'm about to assemble it and bury it in my yard.

#44 mavidal

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:11 PM

It will be available in 2 weeks. We made a small change to allow for all the variances in the shotguns. It is 2 3/16" long with 5 slots. It does replace the rear sight on any of the 12, 20 or 410 saiga shotguns.
It will work with any sight that uses a picatinny rail to attach.


As we say in the south, that dog will hunt. I am definitely getting one of these. Curious, how does it attach, do you remove the old sight and wedge this one in its place?, as that is what my rear sight looks like, it was wedged onto the barrel ring.

Mike

#45 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:26 PM

yeah my problem is im right outside the city limits on long island. And this is a hot topic on my local forum longislandfirearms.com . I know if I brought my s12 with this configuration to the range anywhere around here I would be getting asked about it and gawked at all day, thats my only concern, I would probably wind up with my picture on the forum from another member reporting that they saw one live and in person. Its very grey, I even emailed Kushnapup to see how many approx units were sold to the NY area just to see but I have yet to receive a reply. I'm about to assemble it and bury it in my yard.


Stick a rifle platform in it instead, then... no worries. :D Simple solution. :up: that also might be my next step... remove the S12 and insert a 21" barrel 308 into it... i would LOVE ME a 308 bullpup. :up:

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#46 Zambidis

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:28 PM

Would there be issues with the 308 having a different FCG than the unconverted shotgun? A 308 would be pretty cool.

How long does a barrel need to be to clear the end of the stock. I'm thinking bullpup SBR but it appears that the 11.5" barrel of a draco maybe wouldn't clear the end.

#47 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:54 PM

the 16" rifle barrels BARELY clear the end of the kpup... there are pics of them floating around somewhere here...

I think the saiga 308 trigger may need some tweaking with its funny angle to it... but nothing that could not be fabbed up if it didnt ALREADY work the way it is.

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#48 GunFun

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:54 PM

That seems like an excuse for a cool compensator, on your 308 kpup. Or maybe a supressor if that's an option. That would be a handy gun for pest control.

#49 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 06:34 PM

I got the SHORT rail from CSS today. Posted Image

I GOTTA say I LIKE IT... It will work FABULOUS on a factory saiga of any kind with a rear rifle dovetail style sight... but not so sure if its the thing for the KPUP. You will see why in the images below...

I also hit up Bass Pro on the way home, and picked up a BSA red dot holosight. It has 4 different reticle patterns, too... a VERY tiny DOT, + , Circle with DOT, and circle with plus lines outside of it. I needed a very short optic to fit this rail, as my Bushnell Trophy is far too long between the rings to mount to this.

The parts were VERY easy to install, and nicely finished... not that the silver on the bottom of mine, is due to the fact I have one of the original re-machined prototypes... future ones I believe will be completely black.,

Attached File  css-new-rail-bottom.jpg   99.37KB   19 downloads

Drift out the factory sight dovetail. I went from left to right to remove... came right out... Then drift IN the CSS dovetail mount... I went back in from right to left... using GENTLE taps from a large flat-head screwdriver and a small hammer... I didn't have a flat-punch handy... but I didn't need one, and figured MOST folks doing this mod wont either... so I used what most people will probably have for tools on hand, and it was very easy to do, both the removal, and install of the new part.

Attached File  css-rail-mount-1.jpg   83.59KB   8 downloads

The mount dovetail fits in very nicely... Posted Image
Once mounted... the CENTER set screw tightens the mount into the dovetails, and locks it in place...

Attached File  css-rail-mount-3.jpg   109.49KB   9 downloads

Attach the rail to the dovetail with the two provided screws and tighten with the provided allen wrench.

Attached File  css-rail-mount-top.jpg   111.56KB   7 downloads

You can see in the images below... that the rail does not QUITE clear the plastic cover on the receiver of the KPUP... This causes the rail to sit tilted a bit forward. BUT... it would be VERY EASY to notch out the KPUP in this area... if you wanted to... it is just not something I am going to do... If it were notched out... I am thinking this would fit exactly the way it is intended to... and work perfectly... Posted Image OR,... If you are even more clever... re-drill the holes in the mount and mount it off one end... and move the mount forward off the cover... but thats probably a less stable mount idea... so... might not be the best way to go about things, to do it THAT way...

Attached File  css-rail-mount-2.jpg   84.8KB   10 downloads

Attached File  css-rail-mount-4.jpg   213.81KB   8 downloads

I took a few shots around the house with the red dot on... Eye height with this setup and this optic is about PERFECT. It gets the optic right where you need it to be to align with your eye for proper shouldering, cheekweld, and sight picture. Posted Image YAY!!! Its actually AIM ABLE now!!! Posted Image And we all knew that was a big issue with the factory setup of the KPUP... lack of useable optics of any kind...

Attached File  reddotview.jpg   35.38KB   8 downloads

Attached File  red-dot-view-2.jpg   39.73KB   10 downloads

I ran five 3" remington sluggers through it outside. It seemed to be shooting QUITE HIGH at abot 75 yards... but I was just fire testing to see if the optic and mount would hold... ( IT DID ) I will be going to the range either tomorrow or early this week to try to get it dialed in... If I cannot adjust it DOWN far enough I will have to scrap this setup and buy the full length Ultimak rail as I originally was considering... as I would prefer to mount the Bushnell Trophy red dot on this shotgun,,, BUT... IF I can get it adjusted in properly with it setup the way it is... I will leave well enough along for now... Posted Image I think it LOOKS COOL... but for actual HUNTING outdoors in bright winter time conditions... that particular optic is really NOT what anyone would want to use! I DO plan to utilize this shotgun for hunting... so I need to tailor my setup to the field conditions I will encounter.
For range work... the BSA holosight will work perfectly!!!

I also received a little something else in the box from CSS... so I put it on for all to enjoy! You wanna talk about SWEET!!! It it VERY solidly built!! It looks fabulous! I would not want to get chunked with the ends of this baby!!! Posted Image Posted Image

Attached File  CSSshroud.jpg   78.28KB   10 downloads

And the finished product... with everything mounted... Posted Image

I think it looks awesome!!!!

Attached File  csskpup.jpg   77.41KB   11 downloads



Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#50 GunFun

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:10 PM

How about a picture holding it so we can see how it lines up with your eye in a natural stance?

#51 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:22 PM

I will have to get someone to take one of me... I am not quite THAT dextrous... nor have a third arm. :lol:

But I will get one posted shortly... :up:


:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#52 pjd393

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:22 PM

I got the SHORT rail from CSS today. Posted Image

I GOTTA say I LIKE IT... It will work FABULOUS on a factory saiga of any kind with a rear rifle dovetail style sight... but not so sure if its the thing for the KPUP. You will see why in the images below...

I also hit up Bass Pro on the way home, and picked up a BSA red dot holosight. It has 4 different reticle patterns, too... a VERY tiny DOT, + , Circle with DOT, and circle with plus lines outside of it. I needed a very short optic to fit this rail, as my Bushnell Trophy is far too long between the rings to mount to this.

The parts were VERY easy to install, and nicely finished... not that the silver on the bottom of mine, is due to the fact I have one of the original re-machined prototypes... future ones I believe will be completely black.,

Attached File  css-new-rail-bottom.jpg   99.37KB   19 downloads

Drift out the factory sight dovetail. I went from left to right to remove... came right out... Then drift IN the CSS dovetail mount... I went back in from right to left... using GENTLE taps from a large flat-head screwdriver and a small hammer... I didn't have a flat-punch handy... but I didn't need one, and figured MOST folks doing this mod wont either... so I used what most people will probably have for tools on hand, and it was very easy to do, both the removal, and install of the new part.

Attached File  css-rail-mount-1.jpg   83.59KB   8 downloads

The mount dovetail fits in very nicely... Posted Image
Once mounted... the CENTER set screw tightens the mount into the dovetails, and locks it in place...

Attached File  css-rail-mount-3.jpg   109.49KB   9 downloads

Attach the rail to the dovetail with the two provided screws and tighten with the provided allen wrench.

Attached File  css-rail-mount-top.jpg   111.56KB   7 downloads

You can see in the images below... that the rail does not QUITE clear the plastic cover on the receiver of the KPUP... This causes the rail to sit tilted a bit forward. BUT... it would be VERY EASY to notch out the KPUP in this area... if you wanted to... it is just not something I am going to do... If it were notched out... I am thinking this would fit exactly the way it is intended to... and work perfectly... Posted Image OR,... If you are even more clever... re-drill the holes in the mount and mount it off one end... and move the mount forward off the cover... but thats probably a less stable mount idea... so... might not be the best way to go about things, to do it THAT way...

Attached File  css-rail-mount-2.jpg   84.8KB   10 downloads

Attached File  css-rail-mount-4.jpg   213.81KB   8 downloads

I took a few shots around the house with the red dot on... Eye height with this setup and this optic is about PERFECT. It gets the optic right where you need it to be to align with your eye for proper shouldering, cheekweld, and sight picture. Posted Image YAY!!! Its actually AIM ABLE now!!! Posted Image And we all knew that was a big issue with the factory setup of the KPUP... lack of useable optics of any kind...

Attached File  reddotview.jpg   35.38KB   8 downloads

Attached File  red-dot-view-2.jpg   39.73KB   10 downloads

I ran five 3" remington sluggers through it outside. It seemed to be shooting QUITE HIGH at abot 75 yards... but I was just fire testing to see if the optic and mount would hold... ( IT DID ) I will be going to the range either tomorrow or early this week to try to get it dialed in... If I cannot adjust it DOWN far enough I will have to scrap this setup and buy the full length Ultimak rail as I originally was considering... as I would prefer to mount the Bushnell Trophy red dot on this shotgun,,, BUT... IF I can get it adjusted in properly with it setup the way it is... I will leave well enough along for now... Posted Image I think it LOOKS COOL... but for actual HUNTING outdoors in bright winter time conditions... that particular optic is really NOT what anyone would want to use! I DO plan to utilize this shotgun for hunting... so I need to tailor my setup to the field conditions I will encounter.
For range work... the BSA holosight will work perfectly!!!

I also received a little something else in the box from CSS... so I put it on for all to enjoy! You wanna talk about SWEET!!! It it VERY solidly built!! It looks fabulous! I would not want to get chunked with the ends of this baby!!! Posted Image Posted Image

Attached File  CSSshroud.jpg   78.28KB   10 downloads

And the finished product... with everything mounted... Posted Image

I think it looks awesome!!!!

Attached File  csskpup.jpg   77.41KB   11 downloads



Posted Image

EXCELLENT!!!

What if you cut off the last two pic rail slots so that it would clear? Is that enough to mount the red dot?

#53 twoton

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:37 PM

Don't waste your money on the Ultimak rail. If you notice, there are accessory holes at the front of the stock. Put an AK dovetail on the right side front for $7, get a gen 4 UTG detachable double rail scope mount for $33, and you're set. You can see one with red dot and green laser mounted in the KUSHNAPUP thread I started prior to seeing this thread.

#54 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:43 PM

Don't waste your money on the Ultimak rail. If you notice, there are accessory holes at the front of the stock. Put an AK dovetail on the right side front for $7, get a gen 4 UTG detachable double rail scope mount for $33, and you're set. You can see one with red dot and green laser mounted in the KUSHNAPUP thread I started prior to seeing this thread.


It wouldn't be a waste of money for me to outfit the firearm in the manner I desire. I dont think that your particular way would work for me to properly mount the Bushnell trophy red dot I WANT mounted on this shotgun for hunting purposes... But that may work just fine for others... Good idea! Posted Image


What if you cut off the last two pic rail slots so that it would clear? Is that enough to mount the red dot?


I do not think it would... it is the SAME LENGTH as the rail is now... so the optic may or may not clear the cover if the rail was shortened...


Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#55 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:58 PM

How about a picture holding it so we can see how it lines up with your eye in a natural stance?


Ask and you shall receive... Posted Image

Attached File  me-with-kpup.jpg   113.98KB   9 downloads

Hope that helps...

I am also sporting a JUGGERNAUT GRAPHICS "Wolverines" shirt... :up: BOO YAH!!!

( and YES... I know the date was OFF on the freakin camera again!!! )

Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#56 Bigchris

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:14 PM

Looks sweet! I was checking out those barrel shrouds earlier.... Looks like a winner!

#57 GunFun

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:25 PM

Hey that looks about right. Thanks for the pic.

The rail tilt could be solved with either a vertical spacer, or by notching the Kpup.

Do you have to split this kit apart to remove the top cover? I love how easy it is to strip an AK, it would be sad if this kit takes that away from you.

#58 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:44 PM

Hey that looks about right. Thanks for the pic.

The rail tilt could be solved with either a vertical spacer, or by notching the Kpup.

Do you have to split this kit apart to remove the top cover? I love how easy it is to strip an AK, it would be sad if this kit takes that away from you.



Yes... you have to remove the rear buttpad, then the right side of the buttstock to get the dustcover off. :(

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#59 Russian Hammer

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:47 PM

let me know how that bsa red dot holds up, i have one that i want to mount on my ruger gp100 but i am not sure how it will take the recoil, also, is that a copstache i see hiding behind that gun?
If money smell bad Russian Hammer be stinkin

#60 -Indy-

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:53 PM

let me know how that bsa red dot holds up, i have one that i want to mount on my ruger gp100 but i am not sure how it will take the recoil, also, is that a copstache i see hiding behind that gun?


No... no copstache... HAHAHAHAHA its all connected all the way around... :up:


:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."



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