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Kushnapup Bullpup Stock. MY REVIEW.


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#1 -Indy-

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 07:45 PM

I am editing this as I write... so I dont lose the whole thing and have to freak out cause my laptop sucks!! LOL so if you read it before its done, you will get it in pieces as I am writing it.


Well, as promised... I said I would be getting a Kushnapup bullpup stock for product testing and review.

YES, THEY EXIST!!!! YES I HAVE ONE!!!! NO I AM NOT BJORN!!! LOL I figured that if a MODERATOR of the forums could get one and do a review and write up... those on the fence, or unsure, would realize they are the real deal, and if interested... purchase one for themselves!!!
I would like to THANK Bjorn very much, for delivering these to market! Like a LOT of Saiga products that are new and innovative, there is always a ton of bad mouthing, and claims of vaporware and rumors of "it will NEVER happen... they took the money and ran!" It happened with the MD arms drums... it happened with these. We stuck with Mike D. when things were bleak... and I would like to think we did the same for Bjorn with his product!

HERE THEY ARE!!! I gotta tell you... I LOVE the looks of this stock!!! Some folks don't... some think its the worst... and that's fine... diversity is what makes the word go round... saigas are not for everyone either... I personally think it looks BAD-ASS... and so far... ( in the 4 hours I have had it assembled... and shown it to about a dozen people...) EVERY ONE thinks it is VERY cool!! they love the look, the lines, the feel, the fit, and the function!!!! I don't think you could ask for any more than that!!! I *DO* have some negative comments to add... I will get to those LAST... Some are significant... however, I think they are rectifiable, and do not sway my decisions in any way... and would not sway my purchase in the future!!

It shipped Thursday, and I received it this afternoon!! YAY! Las Vegas to NY in 4 days! FAST!! Posted Image

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The first things I noticed was the smaller than expected box it arrived in. It does not need a large box, however. and everything fit nicely inside. I DID have a small puncture in the box from shipping. I did not think anything of it at the time, however I do believe that it cause some minor damage which I will go into later. Also... ignore the date stamp on the photos... I did not reset my camera when I changed the battery in it. LOL

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Everything was packaged very nicely inside, and the stock came wrapped in some soft flexible foam padding which I thought made a VERY NICE table covering which to work on... and I did!! Posted Image All the parts are easy to work with although I would have liked to have had a parts list with diagram of each part included in the package, as the directions, while VERY EASY to follow have you having to assume you know which screws are which to put in the correct places. I was able to identify and figure that out without an issue... however I am sure that some lesser technically minded individuals might have an issue... along those same lines... they probably should not be attempting this if they cant figure out that the longer screws go into the THICKER portion of the stock... Still... I think a parts diagram would have been a nice addition.

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I took the parts out and examined them. They actually felt a lot more rugged and solid than I would have guessed just by their appearance. They feel to be made of the same polymer material that magazines and the saiga factory stocks/forearms are made from.
I did notice that the two front halves had a VERY TINY amount of flex to them, and they didn't want to fit perfectly together when I held them by hand.... but once screwed into place it was not an issue. I am sure that is just a molding thing, and I did not even consider that to be a negative point.

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I followed the assembly instructions precisely... and had a few small issues.

There is supposed to be a spring just behind the trigger along the linkage to assist in resetting, I am guessing. When I installed the spring it made my trigger nearly impossible to function. Without the spring, I actually found my trigger pull to be similar to a two stage trigger, with some take up and a relatively decent break. It would never do for a target rifle, However it is certainly satisfactory for a tactical style shotgun! My trigger reset just fine without this spring installed so I chose to omit it from the build. I have run several 10 round mags through the shotgun as fast as I could dump them, and had zero issues with trigger reset. ( Vids to follow when I get them hosted. )

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I did not have a standard factory buttstock so I did not have the rear sling mount to install. I plan to install a true QD stud, and have to purchase one with a machine thread to install. All I had currently were wood thread styles. I DID get the one on the front installed, however. Posted Image

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I spent a bit of time fit testing, and setting the trigger linkages. The trigger linkages went together exactly as the instructions say, and are easy to adjust. I have not locktighted mine yet... as I have to disassemble for the sling lug when I get one.

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As mentioned above... While I was fit testing I noticed that where the two front halves fit together the upper half was missing a little tab which I found in the lower half. I fixed the gap with a small nut in the gap, and the two halves fit together just fine, and seem solid enough once screwed together.. so I am thinking it will be just fine!!! Nothing else was broken, or missing, or screwed up in any way... and everything went together VERY easily.

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I probably took close to two hours for a complete assembly. That included pictures, and I took a lot of time to fit, and feel and fiddle with things... If I had a second, I could probably assemble a second in about 10 or 15 minutes, knowing what I know now. Posted Image IT is THAT easy to put together!

I also was VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with having to cut off the tangs... That may be well and fine for some... but I prefer to keep the option of removing the firearm from the stock in the future if needed, and remount a standard style buttstock back on it... so I had to do some fabrication to allow for the tangs. Which... happened to be VERY EASY, and I will detail that process as well. I took a factory saiga stock ( from a rifle, I think...that I had laying around. I could not find the ones off my shot gun, as I had the dragunov style izmash thumbhole mounted to begin with... i had to measure how far the tangs protruded from the rear of the stock... and then cut that much off the factory stock with a miter saw. It took seconds to cut, then a few moments of dremeling to make sure everything was right and a moment to drill the holes out again from where the chopsaw filled them with melted plastic. I got a pair of longer screws and my stock was complete. It might not be quite as aesthetically pleasing to the eye as it would be with the tangs cut... but I think it works, and I only added an inch to the overall length, and length of pull.

The stock from the rear before shotgun is inserted...

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Tangs exposed... NOT something you want to shoot like that!!!

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And all put together.... with a spacer to take up the tang space. I like it!! NOT perfect... but with what I had to work with... It will do! Posted Image

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I got the shotgun into the unit, and put it all together... Care has to be taken with the push-rod for the gas regulator detent spring. IT seems to want to move when you put the two halves together... but with a little care it will align correctly, and things line up just fine. Posted Image

After figuring out which screws go where... and tightening everything down... I had a functional bullpup shotgun!!!

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"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#2 -Indy-

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:37 PM

I am going to continue my write up here... I will start with the things I REALLY like about the stock...

I LOVE the looks!!! I love the lines! It is the most badass bullpup for a saiga I have seen to date. This is obviously an opinion... but I really do think it looks very cool! I love the balance that you get from a bullpup. It moves the center of gravity rearward, and allows you to move and react with the shotgun faster. It is a smaller overall package. That of course is huge!!! IF I had a shotgun with an 18" barrel, instead of one with a 24... it would have been 6 inches shorter yet!

SOLIDITY...
This unit FEELS RUGGED!! I am not going to drop it on concrete... or off of a roof... or run over it with a car... but for the average shooter, that is not going to go out of their way to abuse the hell out of it... I think it will stand up to almost anything you could do with it. Would it break if it was dropped from several feet onto concrete?? NO! Probably not... but I don't want dings and gouges in a brand new stock... and I apologize if you feel that a product testing should include me doing me best to destroy an item. I am sure that I ultimately could do just that... everything breaks, if you try hard enough. This is going to give MOST people who purchase one years of enjoyment if taken care of like anything else, and will stand up to everyday wear and tear, and then some! I think it could be used hard... and used hard often without any failures. Only time will tell... and I LIKE this one... and I plan to use it a lot and often... and I will report back with more range testing as I get to it... The first range testing went well. 10 round magazine dumps of high base hunting reloads, all without a hiccup. 33 grains of longshot pushing an ounce and a half of lead down the pipe at close to 1500 FPS! The one video has me shooting 5 rounds of 3" turkey loads. They fired just fine!!! I am confident the stock would hold up to extensive amounts of heavy shotshell firing. I did not have any slugs with me at the place I was shooting today. That will have to wait till I go to the proper range for that. and I will report back with how it handles 10 round mag dumps of slugs when I do a few! Posted Image Posted Image

PLEASE NOTE.... "close the window to play" where it says "you don't support this video" or some other AD bullshit... you really CAN watch it..


http://videobam.com/fMLYd
( the peafowl love a good mag-dump too!! HAHAHAH )


MAGAZINE INSERTION...
10 round mags just fall into place with this design. The grip section is not in the way at all. I actually found the 5 rounders to be slightly more difficult to fit, as you had to reach up inside the stock section to seat them, whereas the longer 10 rounders were long enough your hands remained near the bottom for good leverage. Vids of mag here:

http://videobam.com/RmOxu

BHO cutaway...
I like the way the bolt hold open tab is exposed for use. It is actually shorter now that it is in the bullpup stock, and I think easier, and more comfortable to engage... and had I shortened it to use it on the gun as it came from the factory as some folks do... It might have been too short to operate easily as it is now.

SAFETY location...
The safety works properly, and I think its nicer being partially hidden. It is no harder to operate in the bullpup configuration, in fact, I think it might even be slightly easier to manipulate as its mostly covered and you can get leverage exactly where it needs to be!!! I didn't feel I was going to get pinched if I got my finger in the wrong spot with this setup.

Front and rear SLING LUGS...
I like the location of the sling lugs. It will make for a comfortable way to carry the firearm once installed.

NON CONVERTED READY...
That it works with a NON converted Saiga... That is pretty cool. most things require a conversion back to PG configuration. Also, as below.. this could be a negative if you have a converted S12 already and want one of these bullpups...


Some NEGATIVE things I have noticed....

Nut holes...
on the left side... the holes where the retaining nuts seat... some hex hole plugs would have been nice just to fill them in. It's not BIG deal... bit I think it detracts a little bit from the smooth lines of the stock...

CONVERTED SAIGA ONLY...
That it ONLY works with a NON converted Saiga... Again... not a huge issue... and as above... it CAN be a plus for some...

Lack of a RAIL or SIGHTS...
The shooters I have shown this completed bullpup to, while they love the feel, and heft, and point... all have complained that it is practically unusable without a rail and a sight of some sort, mounted. I wholeheartedly agree. A Picatnny rail mount is certainly in my VERY NEAR Future!!! and a red dot or holosight will be the next purchase!!! It is truly a necessity as in the configuration it is in now you can not bring the stock up properly and maintain a proper shoulder position and utilize factory sights. This is something that anyone purchasing this item knows from the onset... so it is not a true negative complaint...

Cost...
When the cost is revealed... most thought it was a bit high... or that the kit should have included the sight rail in the package for the current price. Hopefully as production gears up in the future, tooling costs can be absorbed, costs can be lowered a bit... and perhaps a rail system could potentially be included in the kit package, as well. I personally am not opposed to the cost. I feel that in today's market, for what is involved with bringing a product like this to the customer... it is what it is. However, to most that I showed it to,the current retail price is just a LITTLE bit higher than they were hoping for. I feel that if these returned to the pre-sale pricing... more units would sell faster, as when I mentioned THAT price... they seemed to think that acceptable and workable.

One final thing I noticed with the completed unit... is the potential for it to be accidentally discharged by someone not paying attention. When the gun is picked up there is a propensity to grab it, by the grip, right where the trigger is... and the possibility exists for the trigger to be depressed, causing an unintentional discharge. I believe that this is an inherent issue with all bullpup designs, and this one is no different.
This is not an issue that experienced shooters would often overlook, as they should have the sense to keep their fingers away from the trigger at all times, until ready to fire. NEW shooters, however... should they be handed a loaded firearm with the safety OFF... could possibly encounter an issue. This is true of ANY FIREARM of course... but with the way that *ANY BULLPUP* handles, as there is no stock, as such, to grab hold of like a standard monte carlo style stock, this is a point that needs to be kept in the forefront of the mind, when handling!!


I am SURE I will come up with more to add to this... but it is late, and I have been playing with this on hand, and online, since 3... I will add more as I think of it, or remember what I wanted to say. and I will be happy to answer any and all questions you may have for me in regards to this excellent and awesome product!!!



Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#3 -Indy-

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:35 PM

My buddy Brian shooting some reloads...2.75" rem high brass, 33 grains of longshot, ounce and a half of 4's... 1500 FPS. Posted Image

http://videobam.com/epYdT

then myself shooting 10 of the same loads...

http://videobam.com/AJAFe

Last video of the night...
3" turkey loads... 5 rounds. Posted Image The first was a 2.75 inch shell I tossed in there to swap between short and long in the mag... the last 5... boy do they get flung out in a hurry!! :lol:

http://videobam.com/MWQRV


Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#4 -Indy-

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:18 AM

Another VERY good write up... and some pics here that I did not think to take... Also some good info!!!


http://gunwiki.net/G...lKushnapupSaiga



Enjoy!



:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#5 -Indy-

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:16 PM

By the way, folks... if anyone has questions... THIS is the thread to ask them in... no need to start others... :up:

Please, ASK AWAY!!!! :lol:


:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#6 -Indy-

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:30 PM

I need YOUR input now... for a sight rail....

THIS????

http://forum.saiga-1...as +tube +mount


or something LIKE that?!?!?!


I was thinking a nice long piece of picatinny rail... but it has to have the proper radius curve on the underside... then just position, mark, drill and tap... and done... Right?!?!?! Is it THAT easy??


I guess THIS ONE *IS* that easy.... no fuss no muss!!! :up:
http://store.carolin...ga-12-20/Detail


Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#7 brownwood

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:19 AM

I like that Ultimak rail!

#8 ec4321

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:48 AM

You almost have to go with a full length gas tube rail with the Kushnapup, such as the ultimak. For me, I want to have some flexibility in placement of optics and sights and the space is short as it is.

I've found, on my Steyr Aug, the Eotech is much more accurate when placed almost all the way at the front of the rail. The further back I place it, i seem to loose some bit of accuracy. I don't know if that is true for others or other optics, but it's something to consider.

The Bullpup design also makes for a great CQB/HD platform so you can use a bit of rail space for an offset rail or offset flashlight holder for use in HD.

ATF Tech Branch Letterhttp://i.imgur.com/h9wxb5t.png

Question: Can a permanently attached muzzle attachment which brings the length of a rifle barrel to 16 inches or greater be removed and immediately replaced with a muzzle attachment of a different design?

Answer: Yes, provided that the replacement is performed expeditiously, that the new attachment is of sufficient length to allow the resulting barrel to measure greater than 16 inches in length, and the method of attachment meets ATF guidelines for permanent attachment. 


#9 mavidal

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

Hi:

I'm curious of one thing, I presume that you need to remove the rear cover of the stock in order to remove the dust cover from the shotgun in order to pull the bolt carrier? I have not gotten my 12 yet but I have the stock and this looks like the process to take out the bolt carrier based on my AK underfolder.

Mike

#10 ec4321

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:09 AM

Hi:

I'm curious of one thing, I presume that you need to remove the rear cover of the stock in order to remove the dust cover from the shotgun in order to pull the bolt carrier? I have not gotten my 12 yet but I have the stock and this looks like the process to take out the bolt carrier based on my AK underfolder.

Mike



You do have to remove the back cover of the Kushnapup stock to get access to remove the bolt carrier, etc.

ATF Tech Branch Letterhttp://i.imgur.com/h9wxb5t.png

Question: Can a permanently attached muzzle attachment which brings the length of a rifle barrel to 16 inches or greater be removed and immediately replaced with a muzzle attachment of a different design?

Answer: Yes, provided that the replacement is performed expeditiously, that the new attachment is of sufficient length to allow the resulting barrel to measure greater than 16 inches in length, and the method of attachment meets ATF guidelines for permanent attachment. 


#11 mavidal

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:19 AM


Hi:

I'm curious of one thing, I presume that you need to remove the rear cover of the stock in order to remove the dust cover from the shotgun in order to pull the bolt carrier? I have not gotten my 12 yet but I have the stock and this looks like the process to take out the bolt carrier based on my AK underfolder.

Mike



You do have to remove the back cover of the Kushnapup stock to get access to remove the bolt carrier, etc.


Thanks for the reply.

#12 -Shooter-

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:08 AM

Awesome write-up, Indy.

Quick question.........

If you had already cut your tang, could you still use this stock? From looking at the pics, the tang appears to not be used, so I assume a tang-less S12 is not a problem in this?


EDIT: Nevermind. I saw the part where you talk about the tang. I missed it on first read. I also realize now that it does not work with converted S12's. I missed that part, too. You distracted me with all the pictures.Posted Image

Edited by -Shooter-, 26 May 2012 - 08:48 AM.

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#13 pjd393

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:40 AM

By the way, folks... if anyone has questions... THIS is the thread to ask them in... no need to start others... Posted Image

Please, ASK AWAY!!!! Posted Image


Posted Image


Sorry! I'm new to the forum and just posted a few questions elsewhere.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking the time to post all of this!!! Without your generosity I would NOT consider taking this on! Now it seems like a fun hobby project (I'm far from a Gunsmith). I also thought about getting creative with plugs for the holes (I'll brainstorm on that later).

1.) After it is all assembled and the kinks are worked out. How long would it take to remove all of it for a field cleaning? Do you have plans or how will you do that in the future? I'm not THAT concerned because I will not be putting tons of rounds through it. How many rounds between cleanings?

2.) Stock: I have a bad right shoulder so I need to devise a good way to take the shock. Maybe a modified limbsaver or something. Where did you get that stock extension piece (I will not cut off my tang either). Any ideas on adding the extension as you have and putting an entire slip cover stock over the entire end? What ever I do, I definitely WANT it to look planned and as stock as possible.

THANK YOU!!!!

#14 AE86FL

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:34 PM

Very interesting project and write up.

I have a Saiga 223 NIB undecided what conversion to do with it. These pullpup write-ups lately steer me to pullpup direction. I think it will be fun for my 223 project.

I have 3 concerns:

1) The integrity of the stock mounting holes that connect to the gas block and the receiver. In the picture, they look flimsy.

2) Mounting rail options for sights?

3) As mentioned before, any bolt-on extension for uncut tang?

Edited by AE86FL, 26 May 2012 - 12:46 PM.


#15 -Indy-

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 02:12 PM


By the way, folks... if anyone has questions... THIS is the thread to ask them in... no need to start others... Posted Image

Please, ASK AWAY!!!! Posted Image


Posted Image


Sorry! I'm new to the forum and just posted a few questions elsewhere.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking the time to post all of this!!! Without your generosity I would NOT consider taking this on! Now it seems like a fun hobby project (I'm far from a Gunsmith). I also thought about getting creative with plugs for the holes (I'll brainstorm on that later).

1.) After it is all assembled and the kinks are worked out. How long would it take to remove all of it for a field cleaning? Do you have plans or how will you do that in the future? I'm not THAT concerned because I will not be putting tons of rounds through it. How many rounds between cleanings?

2.) Stock: I have a bad right shoulder so I need to devise a good way to take the shock. Maybe a modified limbsaver or something. Where did you get that stock extension piece (I will not cut off my tang either). Any ideas on adding the extension as you have and putting an entire slip cover stock over the entire end? What ever I do, I definitely WANT it to look planned and as stock as possible.

THANK YOU!!!!


The stock extension is the factory stock that I chopped the last inch off of, on a compound miter saw. Then just used LONGER screws to mount it to the KPUP stock.

As far as how long to disassemble.... well... how fast can you unscrew 10 or 11 screws??? :up: It would be that easy to take apart.


I have 3 concerns:

1) The integrity of the stock mounting holes that connect to the gas block and the receiver. In the picture, they look flimsy.

2) Mounting rail options for sights?

3) As mentioned before, any bolt-on extension for uncut tang?


3 - as above... you have to fabricate the tang extension yourself...
2 - You will need to buy an aftermarket rail, or fabricate something yourself. I went into details on this above... and it was my primary negative comment to this whole thing.
1 - It is NOT flimsy. the entire stock is very rugged. :up:

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#16 DistalRadius

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:21 PM

Thinking about doing one of these for the wife. Only thing is, she shoots lefty. Any way this could be fired off the left shoulder? I may try to fabricate a shell deflector if theres enough space. Id also love to work out a barrel-mounted front sight tower but I'm not sure how to get one high enough.

Then if she likes it we'll eventually SBR it and throw on the suppressor!
  • Mr.BlahX3 likes this

"Nope; these days if you don't have a linkless cam that tilts the breech end of the barrel downwards and locks it to the ejection port and a machined slide with a single locking lug that forms the front of the firing chamber riding on a one-piece polymer frame with interchangeable backstraps and a striker-fired assisted DAO trigger mechanism, nobody will take you seriously." -LoudClankingSound


#17 pjd393

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:18 PM

By the way, folks... if anyone has questions... THIS is the thread to ask them in... no need to start others... Posted Image

Please, ASK AWAY!!!! Posted Image


Posted Image

I know this *might* be the Capt. Obvious statement of the day but the Kush = 3 compliant parts for the 922r?

I plan on getting a muzzle brake, MD puc and auto-plug. I know it sounds crazy but I actually like the look of the stock mag and I'd like to run them. I just picked up another spare for $26 shipped!

I was going to order the Pro-Mag 12 but I'm concerned it will be awkward with the Kush. Have you tried it yet?

#18 pjd393

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

I need YOUR input now... for a sight rail....

THIS????

http://forum.saiga-1...as +tube +mount


or something LIKE that?!?!?!


I was thinking a nice long piece of picatinny rail... but it has to have the proper radius curve on the underside... then just position, mark, drill and tap... and done... Right?!?!?! Is it THAT easy??


I guess THIS ONE *IS* that easy.... no fuss no muss!!! Posted Image
http://store.carolin...ga-12-20/Detail


Posted Image


Ok, I have a dilemma. I am thinking about the pic mount ahead of time.

1.) I am NOT fond of grinding down the bead sight permanently to install this (even though I think it looks amazing!):
http://store.carolin...ga-12-20/Detail

2.) I *might* even buy this to go on top of the pic rail (angled on the left side - I am right handed) because I feel like it would be easier to sight a target in slightly higher and from the left side of the rifle. I would just pick a certain distance to sight it in at:
http://store.carolin...-red-dot/Detail

Here is the BIG question! Is it possible to use the upper section of this set up (the top piece + the short or long top pic rail) and screw it to the Kush stock?
http://store.carolin...-12-quad/Detail
There seems to be 4 mounting screws that would screw into the stock. I'm not sure *IF* it will seat well to the flat top section of the Kush stock and/or if tapping screw holes for the mounting screws will even work.


All that being said it might move a little but given it will float above the barrel the entire contact will be made with the stock so it will have far less shock to it.

I might even knock out the rear sight and take the extra long rail set up and cut it down so that it barely covers the top cover for a more custom look. Besides, I am going to mount the holo as far forward on the rail as possible.

THOUGHTS PLEASE?!!!!

#19 AE86FL

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:01 PM

Indy, is there any interference issue with the siderail bracket on the reciever to the stock or the trigger rod?

#20 -Indy-

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:15 PM

No interference from the Side rail.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#21 -Indy-

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

The stock covers the dust cover of the saiga firearm. Nothing else on the top. Over the gas tube is really the only structurally ridgid place to mount a rail for optics.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#22 {ROS}_me

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

Thank's for the write up , Posted Image

I do have a few questions .
Couldn't tell from the pics,
Are the stock sights useless after installing this stock?

You had mentioned dropping on concrete,
Do you think the weapon would stand being dropped from 3 or 4 feet to a concrete floor?

Again thank you for the write up ,

me

#23 ec4321

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:18 AM

Thank's for the write up , Posted Image

I do have a few questions .
Couldn't tell from the pics,
Are the stock sights useless after installing this stock?

You had mentioned dropping on concrete,
Do you think the weapon would stand being dropped from 3 or 4 feet to a concrete floor?

Again thank you for the write up ,

me


Stock sights are unusable.

In another Kush thread, some brave fella did drop tests from ~3ft on to concrete. There are videos. It was fine.

ATF Tech Branch Letterhttp://i.imgur.com/h9wxb5t.png

Question: Can a permanently attached muzzle attachment which brings the length of a rifle barrel to 16 inches or greater be removed and immediately replaced with a muzzle attachment of a different design?

Answer: Yes, provided that the replacement is performed expeditiously, that the new attachment is of sufficient length to allow the resulting barrel to measure greater than 16 inches in length, and the method of attachment meets ATF guidelines for permanent attachment. 


#24 -Indy-

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:55 PM

ditto what was said above... and I DO BLIEVE if I dropped mine onto concrete from 4 feet or so that it would hold up JUST FINE... but I am not doing it. I take better care of my firearms. I am not sure who is that much of a bonehead that they could or would drop ANY firearm onto concrete from 4 feet...


Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#25 ec4321

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 07:53 PM

I am not sure who is that much of a bonehead that they could or would drop ANY firearm onto concrete from 4 feet...

Posted Image


I totally get it for needs of the military, or those that really think they may use their Kush against Zombies or are otherwise preparing for disastrous circumstances - but for me, I am like you I do my best to take care of my firearms and love using them at the range. While I want it to be durable, I am not gong to drop test my guns. No thanks.

ATF Tech Branch Letterhttp://i.imgur.com/h9wxb5t.png

Question: Can a permanently attached muzzle attachment which brings the length of a rifle barrel to 16 inches or greater be removed and immediately replaced with a muzzle attachment of a different design?

Answer: Yes, provided that the replacement is performed expeditiously, that the new attachment is of sufficient length to allow the resulting barrel to measure greater than 16 inches in length, and the method of attachment meets ATF guidelines for permanent attachment. 


#26 {ROS}_me

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

Thanks , ec and Indy for your replies.

I am not sure how i missed the utube vid's of the guy dropping his kush, new vid's seem to be popping up hourly.

I was not suggesting that myself or anyone else would throw their weapon to the ground on purpose, was just wondering how the stock would hold up .

After watching a few vid's of the Kush in action I will second "Indy's" caution

"One final thing I noticed with the completed unit... is the potential for it to be accidentally discharged by someone not paying attention. When the gun is picked up there is a propensity to grab it, by the grip, right where the trigger is... and the possibility exists for the trigger to be depressed, causing an unintentional discharge. I believe that this is an inherent issue with all bullpup designs, and this one is no different.
This is not an issue that experienced shooters would often overlook, as they should have the sense to keep their fingers away from the trigger at all times, until ready to fire. NEW shooters, however... should they be handed a loaded firearm with the safety OFF... could possibly encounter an issue. This is true of ANY FIREARM of course... but with the way that *ANY BULLPUP* handles, as there is no stock, as such, to grab hold of like a standard monte carlo style stock, this is a point that needs to be kept in the forefront of the mind, when handling!!"


Hope you do not mind the quote ,
Not going to name and shame , but a few of the review vids had me ducking down in front of my monitor Posted Image

I like the looks of the Kush and would consider a bullpup build in the future.

Again ,
Thank you for your review .

me

Edited by {ROS}_me, 29 May 2012 - 10:04 AM.


#27 -Indy-

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:51 PM

FYI... for those interested... I have the SHORT RAIL coming from CSS... as the LONG Ultimak rail is out of stock for the fixed sight S12 shotguns. I am thinking It should be here by this weekend, and I hope to have it installed, with optic, and field test/range report posted as soon as possible after all that is completed... :up:


:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#28 pjd393

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:39 PM

I need YOUR input now... for a sight rail....

THIS????

http://forum.saiga-1...as +tube +mount


or something LIKE that?!?!?!


I was thinking a nice long piece of picatinny rail... but it has to have the proper radius curve on the underside... then just position, mark, drill and tap... and done... Right?!?!?! Is it THAT easy??


I guess THIS ONE *IS* that easy.... no fuss no muss!!! Posted Image
http://store.carolin...ga-12-20/Detail


Posted Image

I am almost positive I will go the Ultimak route but do you think either of these would work?

http://store.carolin...SAIGA-12/Detail

http://store.carolin...2-Custom/Detail

Given the shorter stock could I get my line of sight behind it enough to use these or is it pointless?

I'm going to get a muzzle brake so I think the front sight wouldn't look bad right behind the brake.

Thoughts?

#29 -Indy-

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:59 PM

your eye aligns almost a full INCH AND A HALF ABOVE the factory "rifle style" sights... you would need a rail and then either an optic of some sort... or BUIS on there, or rail mounted sights of some other fashion if you wanted irons instead of an optic.

:smoke:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#30 JoeyPBasically

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:12 AM

Is this configuration legal in New York on a saiga 12?



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