Grinderhead 1 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Maybe this is why some people are breaking the tap while installing a bullet guide. Odered the bullet guide, tap,drill bit and screw from a well known vendor( not going to mention any names). Really took my time tapping the hole, but I was not getting anywhere, then the tap broke off, slammed it with a punch, that cleared the hole. Then reshaped what was left of the tap and noticed the cutting face of the tap looked like it had never been machined. I'm no machinist but I thought the cutting face for the threads should have been sharpened but it had a cast type grainy texture and just was not cutting. So I re faced the cutting edge and it cut smooth as butter. What should have taken 5 min. to do ended up taking a good hour. Could have been a defective tap or some one is sending out cheap tools. Just a heads up if you are about to do it yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 The tap in the kit sucks. Tried it, and threw it away after 3/4 turn. Grabbed one out of the toolbox and it cut smooth and fast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
themadhatter196 18 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) I have a good tap that I am willing to get rid of. I have used it once in a drill with no problems. If you got your tap from CSS then the one I have is the right size. PM me if you are interested. Jetmech is right some of the taps that are included in kits are shit and shouldn't be used. I have seen a lot of broken tap threads lately. Edited May 30, 2012 by themadhatter196 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AE86FL 6 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 what size tap should be used? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grinderhead 1 Posted May 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 I have a good tap that I am willing to get rid of. I have used it once in a drill with no problems. If you got your tap from CSS then the one I have is the right size. PM me if you are interested. Jetmech is right some of the taps that are included in kits are shit and shouldn't be used. I have seen a lot of broken tap threads lately. Thanks for the offer the madhatter, but I was succesful after I sharpened the tap. As luck would have it , it was my first bullet guide install!! Live and learn. Thanks to all the help on this forum, I was able to overcome this slight problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Be sure to keep those taps well oiled when tapping. Those receivers are hardened steel and will tear up a low quality tap in no time. We use this stuff for our industrial purposes, tapping all sorts of materials from Duplex Stainless, to plain ole carbon steel. http://www.steco.com/TMprotap.htm well that and Aqua-cool when I can find it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I respect trying to help a vendor, but I'm more concerned with my $450 rifle. Can anyone suggest a kit with a GOOD tap? I wanted to get this done in the next few weeks. thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I respect trying to help a vendor, but I'm more concerned with my $450 rifle. Can anyone suggest a kit with a GOOD tap? I wanted to get this done in the next few weeks. thanks. Yes. Pretty much any US or Japanese made tap is going to be higher quality. Try a machine supply shop such as BASS TOOl, or CW ROD. Tell them you want a "Taper" tap in the size you require. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 A fucked up tap, eh? This is why its a good idea to inspect all tools before putting them through your gun. If you caught it earlier, you could have demanded money back or a replacement. Good to hear that you made it work out in the end anyway. Good job on making do with what you have on hand. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grinderhead 1 Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 A fucked up tap, eh? This is why its a good idea to inspect all tools before putting them through your gun. If you caught it earlier, you could have demanded money back or a replacement. Good to hear that you made it work out in the end anyway. Good job on making do with what you have on hand. You are so right Agent Lemon, as a jeweler I should have taken a closer look. live and LEARN. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvin118 2 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I had the same issue; the tap issued from the kit of a well known vendor simply would not cut. I went to home depot and bought an off the shelf replacement in the same size. The job was then finished within five minutes. It was definitely the shoddy tap the first time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mogunner 240 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 My tap that came with the kit from CSS worked perfectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grinderhead 1 Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 My tap that came with the kit from CSS worked perfectly. Maybe I should try them next time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 My tap that came with the kit from CSS worked perfectly. Maybe I should try them next time. Their tap is shitty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 So none of the kits have a good tap? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mogunner 240 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I guess I must be highly skilled then, since I used a shitty tap with no problems whatsoever to install mine... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadchucker 12 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) A better tap can be had, and it may well reduce your chances of breaking it. That being said, the "cheap" tap that came with the kit from CSS did the job just fine. I'm betting that the majority of kit purchasers do just fine with it. If someone wants to use a better tap, just order the bullet guide sans tap, and procure a better quality tap of your choice. Edited June 3, 2012 by leadchucker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 it seems the taps are hit or miss, i think that accounts for all the breaking that occurs even when someone who knows what they are doing is using it, i didn't know about the poor quality control on the taps until looking at this thread but it makes sense because i've read about lots of taps breaking in almost every bullet guide related thread, i got a kit from css and the drill and tap worked perfectly, but it seems other people buy the same kit and get a bad tap. does anyone know the thread size for the screw, someone should recommend a quality tap to whoever is making bullet guides Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 it seems the taps are hit or miss, i think that accounts for all the breaking that occurs even when someone who knows what they are doing is using it, i didn't know about the poor quality control on the taps until looking at this thread but it makes sense because i've read about lots of taps breaking in almost every bullet guide related thread, i got a kit from css and the drill and tap worked perfectly, but it seems other people buy the same kit and get a bad tap. does anyone know the thread size for the screw, someone should recommend a quality tap to whoever is making bullet guides 6/32 thread size Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thorherc67 0 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 My tap that came with the kit from CSS worked perfectly. mine was shit, i had to just drill out the hole and bolted the BG in place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
canoecanoe 63 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 i must be lucky. I have ordered several from CSS and have never had a problem. The only one I have broken was from Dinzag and it was my fault. I have always gone slowly (except for the one time), going about 1/8 turn or so and backing off and repeating until done. I always use adequate oil. Drill the hole straight and true and tap straight and true. Works for me. I have done (7) so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy21 18 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 a couple things to remember: 1) a 6/32 screw is not a requirement. They are used because they have small heads. I used an 8/32 because its what i had laying around. The head was too big and i just filed it down a little bit 2) 6/32 is a very common size. Taps can be had from anywhere. They are used in all types of parts, but as an electrician i can tell you that 6/32 screws are used to hold in every switch and receptacle in your house, along with the cover plate. Any place that sells much for electrical supplys will sell 6/32 taps and not junk ones Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 i must be lucky. I have ordered several from CSS and have never had a problem. The only one I have broken was from Dinzag and it was my fault. I have always gone slowly (except for the one time), going about 1/8 turn or so and backing off and repeating until done. I always use adequate oil. Drill the hole straight and true and tap straight and true. Works for me. I have done (7) so far. My CSS tap didn't break, but it cut slower the molasses during an Alaska winter. The tap from CSS works, its just a low quality tool.Used a tap from work that is used for aircraft maintenance, and it threaded the hole with ease. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OAKOC 0 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 My tap that came with the kit from CSS worked perfectly. Maybe I should try them next time. Their tap is shitty. I agree, when I tapped mine, I did so carefully, but the CSS tap broke anyway. Went to the hardware store and bought a Vermont tap and it worked flawlesly. Have since used it again and no brakeage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grinderhead 1 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Believe me, I have read on here SO many times about plenty of oil, go slow and all that, I was going VERY slow, not my first time using a tap. But this one would only go so far and just get tighter, just bind up. It was not cutting at all, after I broke it and then reshaped and sharpened it, it was actually cutting the little slivers of metal off. Aint sayin they send out bad tools all the time, this one may have just been a dud. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Taps are made from very hard steel and sometimes you get a bad lot that was tempered incorrectly or perhaps less than perfect. I've broken many taps of all sizes over the years... inparticular I whent through about 4 custom made taps ( 3/4-10 +0.021") for some use with galvanized bolting. The first 3 snapped just starting in the holes and this was done with a machine. Fourth tap made it about 4 turns and snapped..I called and bitched and gave the company hell, till they sent me a new set. I burned through easily 100 holes and never even had one go dull. So yes you can get bad taps. It happens, but it never hurts to mention gretuitious use of cutting oil on here because you never know who's going to come by later and read the thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
canoecanoe 63 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Believe me, I have read on here SO many times about plenty of oil, go slow and all that, I was going VERY slow, not my first time using a tap. But this one would only go so far and just get tighter, just bind up. It was not cutting at all, after I broke it and then reshaped and sharpened it, it was actually cutting the little slivers of metal off. Aint sayin they send out bad tools all the time, this one may have just been a dud. I probably don't need to mention this, but you also need to back off and break the chips quite often. My success has been to go about 1/8 turn and back off aways and then go to the point of resistance and then another 1/8 turn and back off. Repeat as necessary. Like I say, probably unneeded advice but this has worked for me. I'm not saying that there are not bad taps out there, just recounting my experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Believe me, I have read on here SO many times about plenty of oil, go slow and all that, I was going VERY slow, not my first time using a tap. But this one would only go so far and just get tighter, just bind up. It was not cutting at all, after I broke it and then reshaped and sharpened it, it was actually cutting the little slivers of metal off. Aint sayin they send out bad tools all the time, this one may have just been a dud. I probably don't need to mention this, but you also need to back off and break the chips quite often. My success has been to go about 1/8 turn and back off aways and then go to the point of resistance and then another 1/8 turn and back off. Repeat as necessary. Like I say, probably unneeded advice but this has worked for me. I'm not saying that there are not bad taps out there, just recounting my experience. that's pretty much how i did it, i'd go 1/8 turn 2 or 3 times then take the tap out and clear the chips, i read a lot about broken taps so i was extra careful Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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