twoskinsoneman 72 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Everyone knows that Heller Vs DC was a bombshell for the people's right to keep and bear arms. Thanks to Heller Vs DC the Supreme court of the United States found the 2nd Amendment to Be a Fundamental, Enumerated, and Individual Right. Something we here have long-held to be true. This landmark decision will now set the groundwork for giant leaps to be made including a sound, fundamental challenge to the National Firearms Act which implements a tax on what is now affirmed to be a civil right. This one Supreme court decision, a case the NRA declined to take, may end up being one of the most important cases for the cause of the 2nd Amendment in our life time. Please join me in supporting the Heller Foundation as they make the push to reap the fruit of that historical ruling. Please visit Hellerfoundation.org to learn more and make a donation. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salt1219 176 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) thank you for sharing, i will check them out. I seem to remember that there is a local law office that fights for 2A rights, right here in washington Edited August 2, 2012 by Salt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I would like more details and pending site owners/mods permission this would be a great open forum to do that in. I will visit the website, but I would like someone to spend the time and type things out, and not cut and paste. Seeing someone put some time into getting the word our rather then being an indoctrinating cut and paster or fact puking puppet would be nice (not saying you are I'm just tired of "info" that is glorified propaganda) How could it affect the NFA specifically. I don't mind speculation as long as it's well informed. *shrug* just my thoughts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 "Another case was filed this month because, while the H/G is on the Cal. approved list, GREEN was NOT an approved COLOR for that model. 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 1234 HELLER – II (a) July 28th, 2008 Docket no. 08-1289, before District Judge Ricardo M. Urbina Semi-automatics labeled a machine gun – the city rolled over . . . a semi-auto pistol is not a machine gun ! Trigger Locked & unloaded – not practical for self defense, city agreed Ammo storage in another room – no longer necessary Bullet count – remains under contest Fees, undefined – under contest Ballistics test – USELESS but still operative law Ugly Guns – Ban remains in limbo" REALLY? that's actually something that passed http://www.hellerfoundation.com/?page_id=293 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Curious as to it's affect on NFA as well. NFA is bullshit regardless.... I don't care to own FA but SBR, SBS, and AOW are some I'd really like to do. Having to pay $200 to lose a couple inches on a barrel is robbery. Especially since the firearm is already paid for and legally registered. I have heard that the NRA will only take cases they are sure they'll win. Anyone else heard this? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I have heard that the NRA will only take cases they are sure they'll win. Anyone else heard this? I will say that here in MA, the NRA isnt looked upon kindly. We have our own gun-rights group because the NRA will not touch any MA politics, which you would think it should be the other way around, fight hardest for those already in the worse situation. My guess is they have the same policy in regards to NY and Cali. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twoskinsoneman 72 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I would like more details and pending site owners/mods permission this would be a great open forum to do that in. I will visit the website, but I would like someone to spend the time and type things out, and not cut and paste. Seeing someone put some time into getting the word our rather then being an indoctrinating cut and paster or fact puking puppet would be nice (not saying you are I'm just tired of "info" that is glorified propaganda) How could it affect the NFA specifically. I don't mind speculation as long as it's well informed. *shrug* just my thoughts Well my post was original and heartfelt. The only thing I copied was the wording concerning the ruling " Found the 2nd Amendment to Be an Fundamental, Enumerated, & Individual Right". The rest was just my call for support for a cause I care about. No propaganda. the proof of this cause is the DC win. I honestly feel this group can do more. Curious as to it's affect on NFA as well. NFA is bullshit regardless.... I don't care to own FA but SBR, SBS, and AOW are some I'd really like to do. Having to pay $200 to lose a couple inches on a barrel is robbery. Especially since the firearm is already paid for and legally registered. I have heard that the NRA will only take cases they are sure they'll win. Anyone else heard this? I am not deeply involved, I just have info from a friend who is deeply involved hand in hand with Dick Heller. From my information the move is going to have to do with the fact that taxing a civil right is unconstitutional. Since Heller Vs DC affirmed the 2A to be a civil right they believe that have a very strong case to challenge the NFA ETA: Yeah if you research this case you will see that the NRA declined the case, then after it went to the Supreme court and it looked like it would be successful they attempted to get the lawyers to merge the case with one of theirs... or something like that. Edited August 2, 2012 by twoskinsoneman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 ya the info on the site is very vague general legal speak, but I got the basic deal I just was hoping for more is all, not trying to be weird. Before I throw my money around all willy nilly I want to know I'm not supporting a tin foil hat wearing militia etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Winning this type of case would be astounding. I wish we had the same stance on NFA that a few other places have. Such as suppressors being a safety device rather than an "evil implement of death". I'm not a NRA member but am taking their instructor classes. Which I'll continue if the prove to be beneficial. Still probably won't become a member. Edited August 2, 2012 by dayofruin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'll be an NRA member when they keep more accurate gun laws and update them on their homepage, and even then sometimes I think they are way to meh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Salt1219 176 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 i just tried to reply and found out this topic was moved to the place all topics go to die. anyway i was going to say i joined the NRA to support the 2A, but they seem to be busy sending me a never ending stream of junkmail and spam emails Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dayofruin 425 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Not being a member, I even get junk mail from them. Lol! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twoskinsoneman 72 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 ya the info on the site is very vague general legal speak, but I got the basic deal I just was hoping for more is all, not trying to be weird. Before I throw my money around all willy nilly I want to know I'm not supporting a tin foil hat wearing militia etc. Yeah I hear ya. I asked about details and I gave out as much as was possible. They don't exactly want every detail of their next argument to be announced to the "defendant" ahead of time. But I think it's the best 2A cause going right now. i just tried to reply and found out this topic was moved to the place all topics go to die. anyway i was going to say i joined the NRA to support the 2A, but they seem to be busy sending me a never ending stream of junkmail and spam emails Yes very strange and unfortunate this got dumped into political. Shame. I did get permission to post what I did ahead of time. Guess that wasn't necessary if it was going to get dumped here anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Squishy 1,149 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Some thoughts about this. As shown in many of the quotes I put up a few days ago, "their" strategy is to chip away brick by brick until guns of any kind are outright banned in this country. It seems that a strategy to brick by brick restore full rights is an effective counter strategy. Open another "front" if you will. As for the NRA, yeah, they do things now and then I don't agree with and yeah, they send out spam and yeah they're always asking for money. But the "baby and the bathwater" phrase comes to mind here, can anyone seriously say that you and I as gun owners are not in a better position with regard to our rights because of the efforts of the NRA over the years? I'm not a member now, I have been. I am a member of a couple of smaller more grassroots organizations. But as a gun owner and supporter of Gun Rights and the 2nd Amendment, I'm glad the NRA exists. Are they perfect and do they always do exactly what I wish they'd do? Hell No. But show me one organization that is and does. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 If it will make you feel better......we'll move it again.....for now. They may do away with the $200 tax but there will always be barriers to the average citizen owning a machine gun. Bank on it. I could be wrong but I would bet the average citizen does not support the proliferation of machine guns in society. Can you imagine the libs pointing to the Colorado incident and screaming about a machine gun in the theater. We can try but I suspect it is a bridge too far based on Scalia's recent comments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I honestly don't care about what they decide with machine guns, as long as it's possible to own one, great. but all the other NFA stuff needs to be thrown out. as one of my friends told me, you buy the ammo I can arrange a full auto shoot. Ok COOL! bought enough ammo that I felt I could shoot, his buddy with a full auto AR came with his son, and well my 500 rounds didn't last long, and I had to share. It was fun. And the $400 I spent to go to a shoot outside vegas many years ago, ya it was cool, but I hardly see myself dropping much more to do that a lot. For me I get "green" I save and reuse any container that can hold water, fill them and shoot them at the range, it's just as much fun. But being able to knock out the $200 buy in fee of a suppressor will make it lower costs via economic scale and so on. Unless ammo goes down I don't care about full autos, but you know, getting rid of all ristrictions in the long term is still the best. (and the fact that full auto automatically means gun +$5000 typically since the 1980s clause it's just way to damn pricey) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 My old man donated a ton of money to the NRA growing up. A few years ago, he offered to buy me a lifetime membership as well. I declined. Told him to support his local youth shooters and gun clubs. The NRA gets all the money they need from the guys who build the guns. It's a huge corporate bitch now. Compromise is unacceptable when it comes to our rights. The NRA has disgusted me more than a few times. It's board members are a shining example of the shit they serve. If the NRA were loyal to us and not U.S. , they would have restored MA rights after the ban expired for the rest of us. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 My old man donated a ton of money to the NRA growing up. A few years ago, he offered to buy me a lifetime membership as well. I declined. Told him to support his local youth shooters and gun clubs. The NRA gets all the money they need from the guys who build the guns. It's a huge corporate bitch now. Compromise is unacceptable when it comes to our rights. The NRA has disgusted me more than a few times. It's board members are a shining example of the shit they serve. If the NRA were loyal to us and not U.S. , they would have restored MA rights after the ban expired for the rest of us. My old man donated a ton of money to the NRA growing up. A few years ago, he offered to buy me a lifetime membership as well. I declined. Told him to support his local youth shooters and gun clubs. The NRA gets all the money they need from the guys who build the guns. It's a huge corporate bitch now. Compromise is unacceptable when it comes to our rights. The NRA has disgusted me more than a few times. It's board members are a shining example of the shit they serve. If the NRA were loyal to us and not U.S. , they would have restored MA rights after the ban expired for the rest of us. As bad as you think the NRA is, I can only imagine where we would be without that lobbying force. A lot of politicians move based on the NRA's influence. They are involved in politics and politics involves compromise. I don't like it but it's reality. I am way more concerned about Scalia's recent comments than the efficacy of the NRA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 The front lines in the 2A fight are right here in MD. Go to MD shooters to read the nitty gritty- the first case to to bring "possess" out of the house into the real world. It is now at the 4th Circus - those cowards granted a stay on no merit. Look for lots of fireworks just around election time, and a Supreme Circus show next year! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 If you're serious about getting involved in the NFA world consider joining the National Firearms Act Trade & Collectors Association. http://www.nfatca.org/ These are the folks behind the upcoming removal of the CLEO signoff requirement, they are also working with the American Suppressor Association to remove the $200 tax stamp for suppressors, and are even trying to open up a new amnesty period for old war-tropy bringbacks. The suppressor guys seem to be making quite a bit of headway, what with the recent explosion in suppressor ownership and the fact that NFA branch is inundated with suppressor forms, apparently comprising the bulk of all forms submitted. Heres the vid of the ASA meeting with the ATF and Congress. Note the endless boxes of forms... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm of the opinion that had silencers not been restricted in the 30s. That they would be federally required as a basic safety device. Think about it. How many other items out there that don't have a muffler of some sort.. Most are required by law. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm of the opinion that had silencers not been restricted in the 30s. That they would be federally required as a basic safety device. Think about it. How many other items out there that don't have a muffler of some sort.. Most are required by law. I'm 100% there with you and so are several class 3 dealers I know Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Having read the Heller and McDonald opinions for a paper I just wrote on the history of Second Amendment interpretation by the Supreme Court, I have to say Heller has some pretty lousy parts. Scalia's argument for prohibiting handgun bans is a bit tenuous, making make me doubt that it will stand as precedent for too long. Furthermore, there are enough caveats for the "reasonable restrictions" that the anti-gun crowd clamor for that the precedent need not be reversed to make it totally worthless. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 If you are not tracking Woolard, you are missing the show. Check the Maryland Shooters forum for the bloody details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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