New Owner Ammo Experience and ?

[yamadog35 28]

I'm a new S-12 owner and want to ask the experienced shooters if my gun seems to be in a "good" place. I obtained the gun about a month ago from an acquaintance of a family member who was leaving the state in pursuit of a job. I didn't get much chance to find out a lot about the gun before he left and didn't know enough about the S-12 at the time to know what questions to ask anyway. I was getting it pretty cheap so I thought worth it to take a chance. About the only info I got was that he bought it new and already converted from a gun shop and he had only put about a hundred rounds through it - almost all slugs. Supposedly it ran fine with those loads.

 

I've had it out to the range twice. The first time I ran about a hundred slugs through it with no problems whatsoever. At that time I knew almost nothing about the platform so I didn't check the gas plug setting or anything. Just popped in a mag and let 'er rip. Since then I found this site and I've been READING, READING, READING. I've dug into the gun now quite a bit to see what is there and I got familiar with components - for example, it has what appears to be the DPH Arms 6-position gas plug (or at least that what it looks like. It also has a Tapco puck). So with that info in hand I decided to gather up various types of 12 gauge ammo and go to the range today for a bit of a test to see what the gun would cycle.

 

In today's test I had seven different types of ammo from slugs to Federal 7-1/2 Game Loads. I found that I could run all ammo I had with me reliably at one setting or another on the gas plug with most of them working well on either setting 3 or 4 (the slugs ran well on #2 and nothing ran on #1). I did not need setting numbers 5 and 6.

 

So my question is this. Is there another "problem" type ammo I should try as an additional test to see if this thing is "good to go" as set up or are these 7-1/2 game loads far enough on the on the light end of the spectrum to be a good test? I'm pretty happy with it as it is now, but I'm just curious to know its limits.

 

Other info about the gun:

• I can see it is a three port and I can get a curved dentist type hook into each pretty deep. None appear to be blocked but the edges of two are very close to the opening in the gas block.
  
• As noted above, it appears to have a DPH Arms 6 position gas plug (are there other 6 position plugs that look similar?) and it has a Tapco puck.
  
• Nothing in the action appears to be profiled or polished.
  

I've included a photo of the gun as it sits now. The only thing I changed was the addition of the Hogue grip as I have lots of issues with my right hand and this grip makes it much more comfortable to handle a gun like this. Also included is a photo of the box of Federal game loads used during the testing.

[Goose 95]

Find anything that you can buy in bulk for cheap prices. But it sounds like you got away with a really great gun, and it came with an AGP mag, so kudos. Also, what kind of handguard is that, and can you take a picture from a top view so we can see how thick it is?

[msrdiver 42]

If you don't hang anything on that lower rail, I suggest removing it for a more comfy grip or hold the magazine itself.

 

Winchester Universal loads are famous for not cycling the S12. Try a box of those on settings 3-6. Otherwise, be very content with what you have.

 

Please don't tell us you got the gun for under $800.

[Nephilim7 107]

Hand guard appears to be a Phoenix Technology Tri-Rail. I have been thinking of getting one set up the exact same way. Do you like the feel of it? Is it solid feeling but light weight? Enjoy the gun! About to take mine dove hunting right now!

[rnemhrd 165]

I saw a vid of a gun shop in florida selling converted S12s and that was the furniture and flash hider they used. Claimed all guns were tested and 100% reliable. Sent a pm with link since it's a sales add and he is'nt a buisness member. I'm sure if you called with your SN he could tell you if they built it.

Edited September 22, 2012 by rnemhrd

[Pro2A 17]

Enjoy the gun! About to take mine dove hunting right now!

I didn't know the Saiga could be used for hunting.

I thought the smallest mag was the factory 5 rounder.

Is there a smaller one, or is this legal?

I have a friend at work that dove hunts too.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Pro2A

[yamadog35 28]

I did get it for under $800 and I will just leave it at that At that time I knew nothing about S-12's or their prices but my cousin (who knew the seller) did. He would have bought it himself but didn't have the money at the time. We went to the guys house the night before he was to leave town and my cousin said calmly "Yah, I think it is a reasonable deal" while the looks he was giving me were screaming "BUY IT! BUY IT NOW! FOR GOD'S SAKES MAN, HAND HIM THE CASH!" I got a factory 5 round mag and 2 AGP 10-rounders plus a Pro-Mag 20-round drum. Also got some of the ammo I used yesterday in my testing - probably around a 100 rounds total of various types.

 

That is a Phoenix handguard. It came with rail pieces on each side which I have removed for now. I left the bottom rail pieces on for now because I want to try a Magpul angled fore grip. Otherwise I'd take the bottom rail off as well as it would be more comfortable. I weighed the whole thing including the side rails on a postal scale - 14.2 oz (405 grams / .89 lb) As it sits on the gun right now without the side rails - 11.2 oz. It is simple to mount, but has no insulation so it does get kinda hot after shooting a bunch of rounds. Three piece design. Bottom attaches with a tang that slips into the front of the receiver and then one screw into a threaded hole on the bottom of the gas block. The sides bolt to the center with three screws. The rails are two piece (two on each side, two on the bottom) and attach with screws.

Overall I like it, but don't have experience with much else. I do also have an Arsenal SGL21 AK-47 with their standard polymer hand guard and I like the feel of the Phoenix in my hand a little better. It's longer so there's more option for hand placement/arm extension. I need to shoot it a lot more to really make a judgement though.

Pictures below show width.

[rnemhrd 165]

http://www.saiga-12....AGP-S12-MAG-2RD for bird huntin' where mag limits are enforced. Edited September 22, 2012 by rnemhrd

[yamadog35 28]

I saw a vid of a gun shop in florida selling converted S12s and that was the furniture and flash hider they used. Claimed all guns were tested and 100% reliable. Sent a pm with link since it's a sales add and he is'nt a buisness member. I'm sure if you called with your SN he could tell you if they built it.

It's interesting you mention this. I had actually found this same shop awhile back and tried to buy one of their conversions. There was a problem with the financial transaction (not the shop's fault) and I ended up cancelling the order. It was right after this that my cousin got me in touch with the seller of the one I have now. You're right, they do look similar although mine also had a different hand grip (as well as the stock) and the gun in the video also had Krebs battle sights on it which mine does not. I might call them and see if was one of theirs.

[rnemhrd 165]

They may have added the buttstock, sights, and handgrip and bumped the price up from past conversions. Like going to a Harley dealer and they add 1k. worth of chrome that took 2hrs labor to put on and charge 4k more for a "Custom?" bike. Even the gas plug is the same.

Edited September 22, 2012 by rnemhrd

[Goose 95]

I did get it for under $800 and I will just leave it at that At that time I knew nothing about S-12's or their prices but my cousin (who knew the seller) did. He would have bought it himself but didn't have the money at the time. We went to the guys house the night before he was to leave town and my cousin said calmly "Yah, I think it is a reasonable deal" while the looks he was giving me were screaming "BUY IT! BUY IT NOW! FOR GOD'S SAKES MAN, HAND HIM THE CASH!" I got a factory 5 round mag and 2 AGP 10-rounders plus a Pro-Mag 20-round drum. Also got some of the ammo I used yesterday in my testing - probably around a 100 rounds total of various types.

 

That is a Phoenix handguard. It came with rail pieces on each side which I have removed for now. I left the bottom rail pieces on for now because I want to try a Magpul angled fore grip. Otherwise I'd take the bottom rail off as well as it would be more comfortable. I weighed the whole thing including the side rails on a postal scale - 14.2 oz (405 grams / .89 lb) As it sits on the gun right now without the side rails - 11.2 oz. It is simple to mount, but has no insulation so it does get kinda hot after shooting a bunch of rounds. Three piece design. Bottom attaches with a tang that slips into the front of the receiver and then one screw into a threaded hole on the bottom of the gas block. The sides bolt to the center with three screws. The rails are two piece (two on each side, two on the bottom) and attach with screws.

Overall I like it, but don't have experience with much else. I do also have an Arsenal SGL21 AK-47 with their standard polymer hand guard and I like the feel of the Phoenix in my hand a little better. It's longer so there's more option for hand placement/arm extension. I need to shoot it a lot more to really make a judgement though.

Pictures below show width.

 

That's pretty neat I didn't realize the hg was three parts, feel pretty solid? And go ahead and put an AFG on there, you'll never take it off again, I promise

[yamadog35 28]

That's pretty neat I didn't realize the hg was three parts, feel pretty solid? And go ahead and put an AFG on there, you'll never take it off again, I promise

Yes, so far feels solid to me. I guess time will tell.

[Nephilim7 107]

I didn't know the Saiga could be used for hunting.

I thought the smallest mag was the factory 5 rounder.

Is there a smaller one, or is this legal?

I have a friend at work that dove hunts too.

 

It is legal to use a saiga for migratory game birds in the US as long as the gun can only hold a maximum of two shots in the magazine and one in the chamber. I use a five round mag with a wooden block under the follower. It works really well. I plan on hunting ducks as well. You have to have a choke to be very effective at all though.

[Pro2A 17]

It is legal to use a saiga for migratory game birds in the US as long as the gun can only hold a maximum of two shots in the magazine and one in the chamber. I use a five round mag with a wooden block under the follower. It works really well. I plan on hunting ducks as well. You have to have a choke to be very effective at all though.

I see

That sounds like a perfect solution

 

http://www.saiga-12....AGP-S12-MAG-2RD for bird huntin' where mag limits are enforced.

Thanks, that's perfect

I didn't know there was a mag that small available

[KennyFSU 249]

That's the first muzzle brake I've seen that I like, any idea who makes it?

[yamadog35 28]

That's the first muzzle brake I've seen that I like, any idea who makes it?

 

I think it's this one . . .

 

http://www.mississip...4f4cbaa68c91af3

[rnemhrd 165]

That's the first muzzle brake I've seen that I like, any idea who makes it?

 

I think it's this one . . .

 

http://www.mississip...4f4cbaa68c91af3

Thats it. I think it's more for looks, Dress up the end of the barrel with out a ton of weight. Though I would'nt want a jab in the neck with it either. Edited September 24, 2012 by rnemhrd

[45Bretired 19]

+1 for the Winchester Walmart bulk. If it'll run that then it'll run anything. That's all I shoot through mine.

[dcgregorya 5]

Just a heads up - on my phoenix tri rail my side rail screws started snapping from recoil after a few hundred rounds. Wound up replacing them all. Other than that it's a pretty good handguard and like you, I ran it for quite a while with no side rails and just a bottom rail for my collapsible pistol grip. Since I wanted a flashlight on it when I have it at home, I wound up putting the rails back on with a new set of screws/loctite and picking up/cutting down some Tapco rail covers. They make the grip a bit fat though for when I go skeet shooting so I might swap it back to the rail-less version.

[yamadog35 28]

Thanks for the heads up on the Phoenix bolts dcgregorya. I will check mine tonight. I ran 150 rounds through today and now have close to 500 total. One other thing I did to my handguard before today's session was to drill a hole in the left side to expose the exhaust port in the gas block. There is some clearance there but due to reading here about some rails contributing to FTEs because of this, I thought it would be a good idea to open that up. I also added the Magpul angled foregrip to that bottom rail and I'm really liking that.

 

+1 for the Winchester Walmart bulk. If it'll run that then it'll run anything. That's all I shoot through mine.

 

As for a follow up to my orginal question about what ammo to use as a good test . . . I can say now that it seems I can run about anything through the gun and it runs flawlessly - including the bulk Winchester 7.5 loads. I've run six or seven different "light" loads through in the past couple of weeks and all now run fine. I might try the Autoplug down the road so I don't need to change gas settings but for now it's not a big deal. I've also not tried a drum yet. That will be next.

 

I can say I am a very happy S-12 owner. I've always loved shotguns, but running this one takes that love up a notch. It's now my favorite gun to shoot. I'm now in the process of trying to get some friends hooked . . .

[dcgregorya 5]

As for a follow up to my orginal question about what ammo to use as a good test . . . I can say now that it seems I can run about anything through the gun and it runs flawlessly - including the bulk Winchester 7.5 loads. I've run six or seven different "light" loads through in the past couple of weeks and all now run fine. I might try the Autoplug down the road so I don't need to change gas settings but for now it's not a big deal. I've also not tried a drum yet. That will be next.

 

 

The only ammo my Saiga 12 stovepipes on is this dog shit right here : http://www.northwest...argetammo.aspx . My friend had 100 rounds of it lying around. I'm not sure why anyone would buy reduced recoil bird shot (on bird shot I feel like I'm shooting a BB gun - I could probably rapid fire it one handed and stay on target) but if you're looking for awfully shitty ammo there you go .

 

Edited - fixed broken link.

 

Glad you're having fun with the gun - be wary though it's addicting!

Edited October 17, 2012 by dcgregorya