obiwanbonjovi 337 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 How are the aluminum saiga 12 muzzle brakes holding up? I like the idea of less weight, but am curious as to how long they las, and if they have any problems with loosening up due to heat.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Squishy 1,149 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 While I don't have thousands of rounds through mine it's holding up fine from what I can see. As for loosening, with the barrel nut tight mine hasn't moved and with the GK-01 being basically a square length-wise it's really easy to see if it's off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I dont use a barrel nut on my GK-01, just loctite, I would guess I have shot 200 to 300 rounds in mine and all is good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I've just hand tightened mine and put 2-300 rounds through it that way. Never have had an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Squishy 1,149 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I've just hand tightened mine and put 2-300 rounds through it that way. Never have had an issue. What kind do you have? And out of curiosity, how many aluminum brakes are out there other than the Molot? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I pressed my GK-01 on and pinned it. Hasn't budged As far as wear goes, I haven't noticed any significant baffle erosion. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I've just hand tightened mine and put 2-300 rounds through it that way. Never have had an issue. What kind do you have? And out of curiosity, how many aluminum brakes are out there other than the Molot? There is a silly looking one made by Alumalite called Thor, the discontinued Chaos Wave, and the one I am testing that Tapeworm made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I got the Wave, Why was it discontinued? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 People weren't buying it at the time. Everyone wanted poky things for a couple of years. It wasn't poky. Do you think yours actually does any braking? I have been curious for a while about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Seems to, but its been awhile since I've shot without it. I did have to move my light back as it was covering the lens with gsr. I would like something a bit shorter though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dcgregorya 5 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'm guessing aluminum muzzle brakes are purely for cosmetics? Overwhelming majority of the recoil reduction of a muzzle brake comes from the weight, not the actual porting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hmm I prefer the non-pokey brakes... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'm guessing aluminum muzzle brakes are purely for cosmetics? Overwhelming majority of the recoil reduction of a muzzle brake comes from the weight, not the actual porting. Says someone who hasn't done slow motion video of several different brakes of similar design and different materials. The aluminum one I compared has about zero muzzle flip as tested, and reduces recoil comparably to the steel ones. Aluminum would be my design material of choice. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 They seem to survive alright, but if you fired a bunch of rounds in a short period of time, it could get hot and warp from continued shooting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dcgregorya 5 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I'm guessing aluminum muzzle brakes are purely for cosmetics? Overwhelming majority of the recoil reduction of a muzzle brake comes from the weight, not the actual porting. Says someone who hasn't done slow motion video of several different brakes of similar design and different materials. The aluminum one I compared has about zero muzzle flip as tested, and reduces recoil comparably to the steel ones. Aluminum would be my design material of choice. Weight and redirection of gases are the only two factors. If you had the same design on two muzzle brakes, one made of steel and one made of aluminum the steel will always work better. It's physics. If you have a camera that says otherwise you need to recheck your setup because there's something wrong. Is the gun braced when you ran the tests or was someone holding it? I won't go into all the different ways that can mess up but aluminum as a base material won't do you any favors when it comes to reducing recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 The damn thing weights a ton already, why hang more weight on it? My GK-01 is great, thing only I will use, will never get a steel one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 I dont use a barrel nut on my GK-01, just loctite, I would guess I have shot 200 to 300 rounds in mine and all is good. You'd better use a barrel nut that was with you GK-01 due to loctite doesn't fix in high temp and easily untwist. You can put your GK in an kitchen oven for 40 min and after easy untwist steel insert from it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) I dont use a barrel nut on my GK-01, just loctite, I would guess I have shot 200 to 300 rounds in mine and all is good. You'd better use a barrel nut that was with you GK-01 due to loctite doesn't fix in high temp and easily untwist. You can put your GK in an kitchen oven for 40 min and after easy untwist steel insert from it. I threaded my barrel (more on the factory thread)to clock the GK-01 at the right spot, with the loctite is has not moved yet, did the same to all my chokes and rifled choke. Edited October 6, 2012 by RED333 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'm guessing aluminum muzzle brakes are purely for cosmetics? Overwhelming majority of the recoil reduction of a muzzle brake comes from the weight, not the actual porting. Many Russian IPSC shooters switched from steel muzzle brake such as Polygon and PSH-2 to aluminum Molot GK-01, and after 3000 shots says that it looks and works perfect and don't want to switch not only to Steel models but also custom Ti Molot GK-01. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dcgregorya 5 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Many Russian IPSC shooters switched from steel muzzle brake such as Polygon and PSH-2 to aluminum Molot GK-01, and after 3000 shots says that it looks and works perfect and don't want to switch not only to Steel models but also custom Ti Molot GK-01. Then I guess they would rather lighter weight and the looks of it. That doesn't change the fact that, if you could comfortably carry 40 lbs on the end of your gun, it'd kick a lot less . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sergii 142 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 GK-01 13 March 2011, 10,000 rounds. Section 1 Section 2 Section 3. To be continued ... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sergii 142 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) GK-01 October 7, 2012, about 20,000 rounds. Section 1. Section 2. Section 3. Edited October 7, 2012 by Sergii 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) I'm guessing aluminum muzzle brakes are purely for cosmetics? Overwhelming majority of the recoil reduction of a muzzle brake comes from the weight, not the actual porting. Says someone who hasn't done slow motion video of several different brakes of similar design and different materials. The aluminum one I compared has about zero muzzle flip as tested, and reduces recoil comparably to the steel ones. Aluminum would be my design material of choice. Weight and redirection of gases are the only two factors. If you had the same design on two muzzle brakes, one made of steel and one made of aluminum the steel will always work better. It's physics. If you have a camera that says otherwise you need to recheck your setup because there's something wrong. Is the gun braced when you ran the tests or was someone holding it? I won't go into all the different ways that can mess up but aluminum as a base material won't do you any favors when it comes to reducing recoil. Yes it is physics, but you are looking at the question far too narrowly. It's physics. However, take into account the rest of the factors which are affected by physics. All things equal, a lighter break will be moved further by the same energy as a heavy one. That is not the point I was making. My point is that the Physics effect of redirecting high velocity gas and powder can be as substantial or more so than that of reasonable weight alone. I guarantee you that If I take any well designed brake and tape it to the end of the barrel, plus a bit of weight to compensate for leverage changes, and compare it to the effects of threading that same brake onto the end you will see a significant difference. That is physics. If your question is "how can I most effectively reduce muzzle rise, sideways deflection, and rearward motion/ or at least slow the movement?" Then "effectively" includes the concept of making your gun cumbersome. It is very apparent to anyone who has used a good brake with hot ammo, that the vectoring and the weight both have positive consequences but the vectoring makes a more significant contribution. Where there is not much gas pressure to work with the proportion between those two changes is less significant. Sure you could accomplish the same thing by bolting a brick of lead onto your barrel, but it is much more effective to do so with something that makes the most use of thrust vectoring. It isn't a magic cure-all, but it is more than nominal. What my low-tech videos showed conclusively was that adding some weight alone made very little difference at all, whereas adding even a small amount of weight with several deep gills and large vertical ports makes a very substantial difference. What brakes have you tried? I am not asking for basic conceptual physics. We all get that. I am asking for real world personal comparisons between several designs. It looks like when I do the next round I will have to make a very heavy "control" to convince some people. If that even comes close to comparable performance to an equally weighted brake then I would call all brakes a waste of money and effort. Edited October 8, 2012 by GunFun 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Sergii-- It looks like that aluminum one is holding up just fine-- do you see any real benefit to your fancy Titanium one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Many Russian IPSC shooters switched from steel muzzle brake such as Polygon and PSH-2 to aluminum Molot GK-01, and after 3000 shots says that it looks and works perfect and don't want to switch not only to Steel models but also custom Ti Molot GK-01. Then I guess they would rather lighter weight and the looks of it. That doesn't change the fact that, if you could comfortably carry 40 lbs on the end of your gun, it'd kick a lot less . As GunFun wrote above you forget one thing that Ilyns muzzle brake, known as GK-01, is not a "pure" muzzle brake - it's muzzle brake-compensator and 3 upper windows do the same work as extra weight of steel on the end of the barrel, even more effective! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Correctly speaking, nothing for a shotgun is a "pure" brake. They are all compensators. A true brake has a bit of constriction aka strike plate so that the bullet itself tugs the barrel down. i.e. the Browning Boss system or Firebirds .223 brake. Compensators re-vector gas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dcgregorya 5 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Where there is not much gas pressure to work with the proportion between those two changes is less significant. That's my only point. If you look at, for instance, the JTE vs the Tromix Monster, the ports are both adequate. If you can tolerate heavier weight, the heavier one will perform superior. If you were to put one without any ports on it, sure it would not perform as well but I don't think anyone was asking that. The question is whether or not the "superior porting" makes such a large difference as to compensate for the difference in weight and in any reputable brake it's going to be the weight that makes my choice for me based on how much I'm willing to imbalance my gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sergii 142 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Sergii-- It looks like that aluminum one is holding up just fine-- do you see any real benefit to your fancy Titanium one? Aluminum brake holds fine. Titanium has a greater weight and higher price. I will not use titanium. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 So to recap, you are a champion competitor who is fully sponsored by Molot and you could have just about anything you want built by the factory, you have run enough rounds through your guns to wear out the trigger components and yet you prefer their cheaper aluminum model. -- I think that alone should be enough to put the question of materials to rest. Also it doesn't look like you find lighter weight to be a handicap. you are level, smooth, and fast with light loads approximately 3 1/4 dram equivalent. (28 gram @ ?? m/s) so your light brake is helping even with low gas pressure at muzzle. And there is plenty of footage of you and your team in competitions that you can't cherry pick showing that you have near instantaneous shot to shot recovery times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaZorro 401 Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 So to recap, you are a champion competitor who is fully sponsored by Molot and you could have just about anything you want built by the factory, you have run enough rounds through your guns to wear out the trigger components and yet you prefer their cheaper aluminum model. -- I think that alone should be enough to put the question of materials to rest. Also it doesn't look like you find lighter weight to be a handicap. you are level, smooth, and fast with light loads approximately 3 1/4 dram equivalent. (28 gram @ ?? m/s) so your light brake is helping even with low gas pressure at muzzle. And there is plenty of footage of you and your team in competitions that you can't cherry pick showing that you have near instantaneous shot to shot recovery times. Molot don't use stock aluminum for production Ilyns muzzle brake GK-01, as does guys in China who make GK-01 replicas, many of them brake after several hundred rounds unlike Sergeys GK-01 made by Molot that after 10000 looks good. I don't know how US replicas of GK-01 are made, but if they use stock Al for production, like Chinees - they are not so safety as Molot. Before making GK-01 Molot prepare Al for production forging Aliminium pigs as forged aluminium wheels maker do for changing a structure of metal and increasing its safety factor!!! So NOT ALL Aluminum muzzle brake are safety to use. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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