20nickels 21 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 1st time barrel threading this is all I get. Yes I'm turning counter clockwise and it's 14mm, see calipers pic. TAT face is about 1/2 way through the die.. It just rounds off the top and won't bite. This is a piece of chopped barrel from a barrel-less AK kit that I'm using for practice. I've cut it down and tried threading it three times.... I'm so pissed. Why won't it thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ben4345 123 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Muhahahahha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/7652-barrel-threading-tutorial/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Are you using oil? Are you pushing hard enough? I don't know, my first attempt at it was a success. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smartbomb 133 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 try flipping the die. look at the die, one side has the teeth flared while the other is straight. use the fared side toward the direction of your cut. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 sometimes you need to TAPER the FRONT OF THE BARREL with a dremel a little bit to get it to start biting... I had to on one of mine... just about an 8th of an inch worth of barrel... just taper it a little bit... not a huge angle... it wont make any difference once you get past it... and it wont hurt anything... EASY... SIMPLE... no stress, no worries! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
20nickels 21 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Are you using oil? Threading oil Are you pushing hard enough? Think so, It's in a vice. I've put all my body weight on it. I don't know, my first attempt at it was a success. That's what everybody says. Grrrr. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
20nickels 21 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Smartbomb, Both sides of the die are tapered, tried both ways. CNC warrior says writing towards work. sometimes you need to TAPER the FRONT OF THE BARREL with a dremel a little bit to get it to start biting... I had to on one of mine... just about an 8th of an inch worth of barrel... just taper it a little bit... not a huge angle... it wont make any difference once you get past it... and it wont hurt anything... EASY... SIMPLE... no stress, no worries! I'll chop again and try this. This is a real mystery. I'm no stranger to light metalworking and shop work. The die is adjustable and opened as far as it will go while still fitting in the stock handle. Tks for the replies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 You DONT need to keep chopping off the end of the barrel... you are going to have to recrown it anyways if you have done that already... a little fucked up at the tip wont HURT anything... as long as you have the TAT in the bore, and the DIE cutting... it will cut concentric, and true, and there will be enough threads to give you good attachment, and then when you recrown, just touch up the tip THEN... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
20nickels 21 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) This is not an actual barrel, it's a piece of destroyed barrel from a parts kit I'm using for practice (good thing I didn't go right to the actual barrel). I'm beginning to think my die is f'd up or dull. It runs on pre-cut threads fine but just won't bite to cut new ones. My 1st threading attempt the barrel was slightly over size, maybe that dulled the threads??? Wouldn't think so but just in case I just ordered another die.. ouch. So sick of this. Edited October 5, 2012 by 20nickels Quote Link to post Share on other sites
presto_z 125 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I've noticed that it's easier for me to thread an AK barrel when it is standing vertical instead of laying horizontal. I suggest standing it upright and clamping it firmly in place if you can. Starting it seems to be the hardest part, once it grabs ot goes fairly easy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pbwe 45 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 Both sides of the die are tapered, tried both ways. CNC warrior says writing towards work Your quote suggests there may be a confusion. There are dies that are "straight cut" but these are used exclusively to clean up damage/corroded threads. I've only seen these once in my life in a refinery context where they have many very specialized tools. So, I interpret your die absolutly has to have tapered cutting facets; in other words, the opening is wider on one side, and this is the start side. Ordinarilly, a thread die has a noticable cone shaping of the thread cutting facets, and this can be seen. Or, insert a low angle cone shape in one side of the die opening, and it goes X distance in, insert the cone shape in the other side, and it either goes in further or less further. The side with the deeper insertion is the die "start" side. The suggestion to orient the barrel vertically is good for bearing down on the metal and feeling the cut resistance. Bear down hard for at least 1.5 full turns of cutting. Then do the back and forth; cutting 1/4 turn, back-out 1/2 turn, additional cutting 1/4 turn, back-out 1/2 turn. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mogunner 240 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I've never seen a die that has a taper on both sides... you should have one side that is wider than the barrel diameter that is used to start the threading, the back side should be the finished diameter, or close to it since that's an adjustable die. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 How about taking 2 more pictures of the die. Take the thing out of the middle, mark the first side 1, with a sharpie on it, take a picture, turn it over and do the same of the other side. But make sure the pictures are not all blurry as hell. I've had a few dies that even after backing out the screw all the way, that I had to take a small flat head screw driver and "wedge" into the slot to get it to open up enough to get it to bite, run it down, to bottom out and then keep running the die down while adjusting the screw to tighten it up until the threads where where I wanted them. This ain't the way it should be done, it's kinda Rube Goldberg, but it worked and did what I needed it to do. Most of the the time, I find that Rube is working with Murphy to just really screw stuff up. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
20nickels 21 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Last pic shows direction of cutting edges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pbwe 45 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Well I'm fulla schitt. That certainly looks to be straight cut. And what occurs to me is that straight cut is specified for barrel threading in order that the threads that are cut in the barrel are cut full depth for the entire cut distance to very near the termination of the thread. A tapered thread die started at its wide end would not cut a full depth thread at the termination end. In a similar case, I first cut a thread starting at the wide end, cut to the distance needed, and then reversed the die direction so that the narrow end is threaded first onto the newly cut threads, and by a judicious back-and-forth manual technique, the die is worked until it cannot go any further, but which is about one thread pitch short of the distance cut with the wide side. I think the die you have is intended for a machine work and is not intended for manual work, especially on a steel that is in some degree hardened. I think you will need a different (read tapered) die for manual work. With novice manual work, I think there is significant possibility that the threads may be cut slightly off center or canted, which will define the alignment, or lack of alignment, of whatever is attached. It may be worthwhile to have a competant garage machinist make the thread cut. Craigslist. Best of luck with the project. PS: Or get a tapered cut die and start the threading process with it, and finish with your in-hand straight cut die. This may be doable manualy. Edited October 10, 2012 by pbwe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Your high speed adjustable die should be loosed up before you insert it into the handle or machine to start cutting. Soaked in oil and loosened up all the way, you will get it to bite and work. The side with the lettering on it will start the thread. You are using a handle right? Good luck and follow the rule of cutting new threads. Trying to do it all at once will just wear out your gear and make you swear a lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
20nickels 21 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Finally got it started. Problem was barrel piece was slightly out of round (bore not concentric w/ OD) and needed a slight .45 angle as opposed to being a flat 90 degrees. Oh, and needed a helluva lot of pressure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Finally got it started. Problem was barrel piece was slightly out of round (bore not concentric w/ OD) and needed a slight .45 angle as opposed to being a flat 90 degrees. Oh, and needed a helluva lot of pressure. Glad to hear you got that figured out. Thats one of those little "gotcha's" that can take a long time to discover. Sometimes not before you decied to bash the gun over a table. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Depending on how non-concentric your bore is in relation to the O.D. of the barrel, in extreme cases just be aware that there's a chance of muzzle device strikes if your pattern looks off. The bettter builders on the board (business members) turn the outer diameter of the barrel on center before threading to correct this as it a fairly common S12 issue. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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