TheGreenPotato 0 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I wish I'd had my eyes and ears open in October when the VEPR-12 was still available for pre-order at 1K, but I missed out and now it seems I'll have to pay an extremely large sum to get this gun if I order it now. I got one on back-order for $1,199 feeling that an extra $200 wasn't enough to keep me from getting it, but then the dealer removed it from their site two days later and just refunded me today... Now I look to find another source, but everyone has jacked their prices up tremendously >:| Are these VEPR-12 prices EVER expected to go down or should I just shell out the extra $500 and get it before they jump up another grand next week? Also, how happy are the VEPR-12 owners and do you think the sting of an additional $500 is worth it? Edited January 16, 2013 by TheGreenPotato Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nucjd 6 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Well, I was able to sneak one in at Centerfire for 1199 right before they bumped the price and sold out. At the same time I picked up at SGL 12 from Atlantic for pre panic price. I have shot both. I definitely favor the VEPR. I did not have to fiddle with t to get it to fire light loads and I do not have to adjust the gas settings. I also really like the fit and finish. If I could do it again I would have held out on the SGL and just went ahead and bought two VEPRs for the extra price. Edited January 16, 2013 by nucjd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 First off, that sucks, im sorry to hear you missed out. These are awesome shotties. Im glad I pulled the trigger on mine before all the panic. I just dont know if I could panic buy one for 1500. Nothing against the shot gun. I LOVE this thing. It is awesome to no end. But 1k is a lot different than 1500. plain and simple. I cant really make a call for you. All I can say Is I love this thing and you may or may not be able to get one for a very long time. Who can know if they will go after imports. We may know soon enough though... its a really tough call to make. You either pull the trigger and get lucky and you have one at the risk of the price coming back down....or you wait and no more come in. Not trying to cause any more rumors or scares, but its the sad truth right now. Just no way to know what they will go after at any minute. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightmareArmory 6 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Hi, Sorry to hear that you got caught in the crossfire so to speak. I'm new to the forum and a new owner of the VEPR 12 and can tell you that this shotgun is a real blast to shoot and it's accurate with plain 'ol iron sights. I've been having fun buying Tacti-Cool components and it's finally looking like I want it to. I picked up mine from Mississippi Auto Arms and they were great to deal with and had a fair price. Like any hobby, prices change based on a lot of variables and you have to look at it like it's money spent for fun and not necessarily for an investment. If it's worth it for the fun GREAT and if not maybe you shouldn't do it. I went to the outdoor range in Twentynine Palms this weekend with the Sniper Team. They all loved it and we had a blast shooting the VEPR along with all the other interesting items brought out there for the day. I highly recommend the rifle and am very pleased with my purchase. Good luck! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 What you are really asking is for someone to predict the future. Right now everything is a gamble as nobody knows what will happen. If you buy now you might be overpaying, if you wait, they might stop import. So you have to ask yourself one question, Do you feel lucky? For me personally, if I bought one, they would drop in price 6 months from now, if I waited they would stop import and I would have to pay double what they are now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brad cole 65 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 you can make 500$ more later . you cant get one if they ban them. I find it funny how some people dont haggle $500 on a car but that will stop them from something as sweet as the vepr 12. by the way Im a very happy vepr owner , and its the only "assault weapon" I have not sold Im the red guy on your shoulder--- buy it if you want it--. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nikolai Volkoff 0 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I didnt like paying 400 extra but seeing what people are paying on auction sites I dont feel so bad now. If you have the money do it, worry about the rest later. Shank where you from I shoot at Wolverine you near there? Good to run into a neighbor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGreenPotato 0 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Alright I've given in :| I'm trying to buy it from mach1, but their procedure is a bit strange and confusing. I'm waiting on an email from a representative for further direction. I wish A of A had taken the gun off their site before I wasted my time with them, I might have saved a hundred bucks! Maybe if i buy 2 I can sell the other at a ridiculous price as well and actually come out on top ..but I don't have another grand and a half lying around to try this out Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cbwyer 0 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 HAHA, Quote from Hog76 (For me personally, if I bought one, they would drop in price 6 months from now, if I waited they would stop import and I would have to pay double what they are now.) That is so true, I say F%^& IT! Get it! I have been a little silly as of late getting lowers, uppers and ammo.. Just Crackers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nikolai Volkoff 0 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Call and talk to Kerry tomorrow they answered phones when I dealt with them. Tell him you want it give him your info and send him your FFL. Dont wait call early. If you wait youll miss it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGreenPotato 0 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thank you Nikolai, I will definitely do that in the morning. Y'all, I've been back and forth about this whole thing, but I really don't want to be the one that never got his V12 so my wallet will just have to hurt for a while. Thanks for all of your input guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 It's basic economics. I can tell you as far I am concerned, I would not sell mine for $1500. Therefor it's value is > $1500 to me. How much is it worth to u?: (Two scenarios) 1. Ban, or zombie outbreak, comes before you ever get a Vepr 12. You will either never have one, or have to pay or barter much more then $1500. In case of zombie outbreak, you could make the defense of obtaining one from a dead person, but that would just be preposterous. Everyone knows the only survivors of a zombie apocalypse would be Vepr 12 owners. 2. Ban does not come about, and zombie outbreak postponed to later date. You spent $500 extra dollars on this compared to a lucky 1000 buyers and however many more when more or imported, even though these will probably be imported at higher than $1000. You either eat the the extra cost, forget about it or dwell on it. Or use it to fuel you to reduce costs in other sections of your budget, such as food, smokes, booze.etc., to make up for your loss on this portion of your budget. Weigh these, decide which is worse, factor in probability... and make a choice. ps...NightmareArmory.. your avatar is going to be confusing as fuck as it is pretty much the same as PapaZorro. He's pretty much the most knowledgeable person on the Vepr 12 forum since he has had a huge head start compared to everyone else. Not to sound like a dick rider, but it's confusing seeing someone else with PapaZorros Avatar and expecting vast amounts of knowledge to come pouring out... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hdskumm 39 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 PZ was banned . I thought that was him in new form, but the english make sense better Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAKAK47 21 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Why was Papa Zorro banned? I read a TON of his info on the VEPR 12 and that really got me into the shotgun, it was hard to believe that is said banned on his Avatar. What did I miss? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Wow PZ was banned? I know be butted heads with Greg a few times, but it seemed obvious to me it was a cultural disconnect. PZ brough awesome insight into the behind the scenes of the Vepr's etc. What a tragedy. Lame. Edited January 17, 2013 by ec4321 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 People bitched when they were $999 and came with a free SGM Tactical mag because the dust cover rails were canted and the buttstocks were wooden or Tapco. A guy posted a NIB V12 here for $1600 and got a ration of shit for doing so. Now everyone says they are a great deal no matter what the cost. Thanks Obama! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGreenPotato 0 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 People bitched when they were $999 and came with a free SGM Tactical mag because the dust cover rails were canted and the buttstocks were wooden or Tapco. A guy posted a NIB V12 here for $1600 and got a ration of shit for doing so. Now everyone says they are a great deal no matter what the cost. Thanks Obama! He really did just gladly fuck everything up. I hurried and finalized the payment for one today just before the ban proposal thank god. Why was Papa Zorro banned? I read a TON of his info on the VEPR 12 and that really got me into the shotgun, it was hard to believe that is said banned on his Avatar. What did I miss? Same here, he's one of the reasons I was so sold on getting one for a while. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 People bitched when they were $999 and came with a free SGM Tactical mag because the dust cover rails were canted and the buttstocks were wooden or Tapco. I find that very hilarious. So many people did complain about that silly rail and the price at 999.99. Now people are looking everywhere for them at that price. Not looking so bad now huh? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Why was Papa Zorro banned? I read a TON of his info on the VEPR 12 and that really got me into the shotgun, it was hard to believe that is said banned on his Avatar. What did I miss? WTF!!! Had no idea he was banned!!!!! Hopefully I don't get banned for this... but if I was to make a guess it would be that whole hoopla over CSS's replacement top cover rail. CSS created a thread about the new product, PapaZorro made a comment that they already tried that in Russia on a beta version, and it didn't work out, and that CSS was missing a key element they were not accounting for to make it work. Said thread mysteriously disappeared. Then PapaZorro made a new thread asking what happened to old thread and if it was because CSS didn't like what he said. That thread also disappeared mysteriously. Either my guess is off... or I'm about to disappear... Edited January 17, 2013 by Muffman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Why was Papa Zorro banned? I read a TON of his info on the VEPR 12 and that really got me into the shotgun, it was hard to believe that is said banned on his Avatar. What did I miss? WTF!!! Had no idea he was banned!!!!! Hopefully I don't get banned for this... but if I was to make a guess it would be that whole hoopla over CSS's replacement top cover rail. CSS created a thread about the new product, PapaZorro made a comment that they already tried that in Russia on a beta version, and it didn't work out, and that CSS was missing a key element they were not accounting for to make it work. Said thread mysteriously disappeared. Then PapaZorro made a new thread asking what happened to old thread and if it was because CSS didn't like what he said. That thread also disappeared mysteriously. Either my guess is off... or I'm about to disappear... Actually what happened was he started that thread, then upon CSS asking him what was wrong and he would not tell them. Long story short he went back and forth at them for some time instead of just telling them, in the end there was nothing wrong with their rail. What PZ had been hinting about was already addressed with the CSS rail and in fact in the design. He could have just got off their nuts and told them "what he thought was the issue" to begin with and saved the whole ordeal. There was nothing wrong with the rail. He also would not get off CSS nuts about "stealing" the muzzle comp design from zeRussian. Dont get me wrong. I liked PZ on the surface and thought he had tons of good info too. He actually had a shit ton of good info. But was on a high horse and had it out for CSS and other US manufacturers for some reason. Must be a Russian thing. He was warned and guess he didnt give it up. I hope is he is still on the forums he lets its go this time and doesnt make it a competition. I have no idea why he was permabanned. I can only guess too. But I can say from my personal experience. I say and do stupid shit some times. I have a habit of giving people more shit than deserved. I have been banned twice(I think hell maybe 3 times), Its hard to get perma banned if you just go along and work with the mods. They are all reasonable on most circumstances. Regardless of if I disagree with any one of them or not. They try hard to accommodate everyone. If you are perma banned, you worked hard for it and deserve it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) Ahhhhh... I did not know of the back and forth and a lot of that info. From what I've heard and read though... CSS's Molot brake copy also rubs me the wrong way. Everyone bash's companies for making knock offs of EchoNineThree products, and TAD tools just to name a couple. I don't see how this is any different. Yes it's very convenient for 922r, and its opposite in that it is a US product ripping off a foreign product when it is usually the other way around, but still wrong in my book. If CSS cuts them checks for making these, or has some sort of arrangement I do not know of, then I retract. But from what I've read, don't think that is the case, so I do not do business with them. The same respect I pay to other American companies by purchasing the real deal and not paying for a knock off, even if it is equal in quality. Anyway... totally threadjacking... and you are right, a permaban more then likely involved a lot to obtain... Edited January 17, 2013 by Muffman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Ahhhhh... I did not know of the back and forth and a lot of that info. From what I've heard and read though... CSS's Molot brake copy also rubs me the wrong way. Everyone bash's companies for making knock offs of EchoNineThree products, and TAD tools just to name a couple. I don't see how this is any different. Yes it's very convenient for 922r, and its opposite in that it is a US product ripping off a foreign product when it is usually the other way around, but still wrong in my book. If CSS cuts them checks for making these, or has some sort of arrangement I do not know of, then I retract. But from what I've read, don't think that is the case, so I do not do business with them. The same respect I pay to other American companies by purchasing the real deal and not paying for a knock off, even if it is equal in quality. Anyway... totally threadjacking... and you are right, a permaban more then likely involved a lot to obtain... Please explain how exactly are they ripping anyone off? Go ahead, enlighten us. I bet you even shop at wal mart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'm not an engineer, though I wish i was. But from what I have seen of it, the product, imo, does not differ enough from the original product, which imo is a very distinctive product compared to the rest of what is available on the market. However this is just my opinion, not fact. Very easy for me to be wrong on this. Also a pretty huge blunder in my book accidentally using Molot's name on it for a while on their site... ps... not even going to open that can of worms, but I actually DO NOT shop at Walmart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I'm not an engineer, though I wish i was. But from what I have seen of it, the product, imo, does not differ enough from the original product, which imo is a very distinctive product compared to the rest of what is available on the market. However this is just my opinion, not fact. Very easy for me to be wrong on this. Also a pretty huge blunder in my book accidentally using Molot's name on it for a while on their site... ps... not even going to open that can of worms, but I actually DO NOT shop at Walmart. That argument would only have ground to stand on if there was a patent on the item. I am not an expert so I dont know if there is or not. But I would think CSS would be smarter than that. Choose to call it what you will. But CSS has proven them self more than enough to worry about what you think of a stupid muzzle device that has no one to back a legal claim on. If you choose to not shop with them over that I can only laugh about it. Product design 101, first get a patent. If you dont, then you have no one to blame but your self. Im curious to know if you think the same about the AK platform. Remember what website you are on lol. How many Ak variants are out there? How is that any different? Do you boycott any vendor that sells any AK platform that is anything other than Russian made? Edited January 17, 2013 by Chevyman097 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I can see your perspective. I am not certain on the patent either. However, imo, even if there is no patent I still would not support it. If this was a Chinese company ripping off a CSS original product they had no patent on, would you buy from the Chinese vendor or support the original maker? Like I said however, I do understand your perspective. If there is not a patent, there should have been. I just don't feel that makes a wrong a right, but just an opinion. As far as the AK platform is concerned, that's just being silly. Patents run out generally after 20 or so years. I'll try and follow along however. If this was 1960, yes, I would only buy a Russian AK. I would want to support them for making such an amazing product. Even if Mikhail would not have seen any extra money for my gesture, I still would do it and feel good for it. However 1947, and 74 were a long long time ago, so I would buy an AK from anyone as long as it is quality. = ] We prob gonna just have to agree to disagree... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 As far as the AK platform is concerned, that's just being silly. Patents run out generally after 20 or so years. I'll try and follow along however. If this was 1960, yes, I would only buy a Russian AK. I would want to support them for making such an amazing product. Even if Mikhail would not have seen any extra money for my gesture, I still would do it and feel good for it. However 1947, and 74 were a long long time ago, so I would buy an AK from anyone as long as it is quality. = ] We prob gonna just have to agree to disagree... lmao, good one there playing the 20 year card. I honestly dont know how long a patent works. But you justified your end by the means. My point stands and you obviously see it and lets be honest. Thats all you have to stand on because I got you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 i'm sorry... but how did you get me? Or you just trying to take the Mickey out of me? = ] 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 CSS's brake is different in the fact that it uses more and bigger ports on the sides. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) I don't think the AK was ever patented until the 90's. The standards in intellectual property are quite a bit different, and by that time the design had long been in the 'Public Domain'. For the AR, Armalite had the patent but sold it to colt. Such a patent i believe holds for 20 years. With the GK-01 we could be really talking about a design patent which is slightly different. It's a fine line, but either way a design patent would be 14 years. I have no idea if molot or anyone else has a patent on the Gk-01. I think the point is PZ may have had a bit of pride for Molot and probably his home country Russia. I think he participated here because he was proud to see people here wanting, using and enjoying the arms from Russia and the folks at Molot he interfaced with and was glad to help out with knowledge where he could. I suspect he probably was a bit turned off, due to the pride, to see a duplicate and goaded people about it. Just a bit of national pride. I don't know how far it went. The thread I saw, I didn't think it was a huge deal. Something I certainly understood to be cultural and born of a pride. And yes, much like when we might see a copied Apple product made by the chinese, we may laugh about it and if we were in a forum with the person that made that copy we have a few moments of fun with it. It's is a copy. No matter how you cut it. Not saying it's a patent or other IP violation, because I don't know there are such protections for the GK-01, but it is a copy - that was the intent from the get go. A US Made version of the GK-01. No denying that. Edited January 17, 2013 by ec4321 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 US Made version This is the key as 922r comes into play here, as well as price and availability. CSS took the original design, changed the porting and the material. They freely admit it is a US copy. If you don't like that, don't buy it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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