Chickened out drilling holes

[kshew97 3]

I had everything laid out, ready for the conversion, and chickened out at the last minute with the drill.

 

After holding up the 3/16 drill bit to the axis pins I quickly realized there is a very good chance it was going to "walk" on me. I was thinking about going to buy a bit with a pilot tip when I go to pickup paint and a vise (also realized having a vise was probably a wise investment too).

 

How forgiving is the rivet that is being drilled out? Should I look for a different bit, or man up and drill the thing?

[Big John! 2,062]

Grow a sack!

 

If you've done your homework, you can do this in your kitchen. You'd have to be dumber than a monkeys ass to not be able to drill those rivets in about five seconds each.

While I've never put my gun in one, a vise is a must have anyhow.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Big John!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I won't hesitate to cut, grind, weld, press, hammer, beat, and saw just about everything on a weapon if I think it will be beneficial. Buys some tools and do the damn thing!

 

MAKE IT YOURS!

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

You don't have to drill, you can use an orbital sander with a light touch and sand the heads flush the punch then out.

Edited February 5, 2013 by poolingmyignorance

[Big John! 2,062]

Very informational thread that a resident genius posted.

 

I Used To Have A Vagina Too

[sweetcostarica 18]

I had everything laid out, ready for the conversion, and chickened out at the last minute with the drill.

 

After holding up the 3/16 drill bit to the axis pins I quickly realized there is a very good chance it was going to "walk" on me. I was thinking about going to buy a bit with a pilot tip when I go to pickup paint and a vise (also realized having a vise was probably a wise investment too).

 

How forgiving is the rivet that is being drilled out? Should I look for a different bit, or man up and drill the thing?

 

I understand your hesitation kshew97. You have an investment there in the Saiga 12. if you bought the rifle with your hard earned money taking advise from some guy on the internet is a little dangerous. But I recommended you get someone who has done this before to help you (it's still manly to as for help) or send it out to be done.

[SICARIO 26]

One thing I do after grinding off the head of the rivet is to use a spring loaded center punch to mark the center of the rivet to drill, which also helps prevent walking. I'll drill about half way through (this weakens the hold on the rivet). Next use a punch pin that fits inside the hole. A few whacks with the hammer and it pops out. I've been able to knock out the rivets without drilling, and I've drilled them all the way through, I have found the latest method works 100%. I also use a cordless drill since it's not a precision hole.

 

With the Axis pins I just drill enough of the flared end to weaken the pin, then knock it out with a punch, you don't need to remove the flanged end entirely.

 

Spring loaded center punch is around $3 at harbor freight, a worthy investment.

Edited February 5, 2013 by SICARIO-

[kshew97 3]

It is done. All of that worry for nothing. Those little Russian rivets aren't as tough as some I have drilled out in the past.

 

Paint is drying, now onto profiling the hammer, cutting down the BHO, and polishing the bolt!

[Big John! 2,062]

It is done. All of that worry for nothing. Those little Russian rivets aren't as tough as some I have drilled out in the past.

 

Paint is drying, now onto profiling the hammer, cutting down the BHO, and polishing the bolt!

Good man. Now doesn't that feel better? That was the whole point of inspirational vagina thread. You guys can do it. You don't need any crazy drill bits to drill out these rivets. Drill it and smack it out. Hell, I don't even thing you need a dremel to make the grip nut square hole. A drill bit and a file will get the job done. It's all hidden anyhow.

 

Glad you got it done.

[kshew97 3]

Lol. Big John, had you posted that last night I would be done by now!

 

I bought the parts off Goldeneye76 on here, and have been chatting with him and sending pics as I go. I tend to overthink things a bit, so I research too much and then try to remember EVERYTHING I read. Amazing what a smoke break and a beer will do to get your mind back on track!

 

Everyone here has been awesome, kudos to you all!

[Goldeneagle76 24]

Hey, I'm not helping you anymore, it's Goldeneagle not Goldeneye!!!

Although it's better then being called brown eye I guess.

[M49907 3]

My bit didn't have a pilot tip and it was no problem. For other guys worried about this just go for it and don't think twice. For the rivits i just ground a good flat portion on the tops and drilled the piss out of them.

[sccritterkiller 473]

Looks like I'm not the only one who found my satchel lately... Congrats on the conversion!!!

 

I have had the parts to convert #2, as I call her, laying around for a couple months or so..I finally found the time to run a hundred or so rounds downrange, had no issues, so I did the conversion this weekend. While I have another converted gun to look at I found the CSS videos very helpful. The drilling did have me questioning my skills or lack there of at first. I found it to be easier than building up a AR lower, damn detent springs...Hoping to do a function test in the next couple of weeks and then I will put the folder on...wanna test it first to make sure no issue with the conversion.

[kshew97 3]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Goldeneagle76" data-cid="859742" data-time="1360100123"><p>

Hey, I'm not helping you anymore, it's Goldeneagle not Goldeneye!!! <span rel='lightbox'><img src='http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_emoticons/default/nonono.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' /></span><br />

Although it's better then being called brown eye I guess. </p></blockquote>

 

Goldeneagle, Goldeneye, Goldenshower, I was too busy working to remember which one you go by on this board. Lol

 

Thank you VERY much for putting up with me today!

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

spring loaded center punch to mark the center of the rivet to drill, which also helps prevent walking.

 

Do that... Then if you want to go to the next level buy a center drill. They're all over ePay for cheap (and they're probably pretty low quality... will do a few jobs before becoming worthless). Center drills, as their name implies, are not at all prone to walking, but they aren't for making holes either. Punch, center drill, then step up to your primary OD drill.

 

That's how real machinists do it if they need to carefully locate a hole (if you're a real machinist and don't, that's fine... just the way I do it).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Center drils work well in a drill press because they don't have the flex of twist shank. In a hand drill, they will still walk if you don't have a suitable center punch mark for them to ride in. (Albiet less than a standard twist shank).

After doing many conversions unless your really worried about that factory pain you have to touch up any way, sanding the heads and punching the rivets is the best/quickest approach.

If you go to a regualr machine supply shop and buy high speed steel center bits they'll stay sharp for literally hundreds of holes. Well worth the extra $5

Edited February 6, 2013 by poolingmyignorance

[acidnova 9]

I made my conversion years ago in a motel room when working out of town. Limited tools and it turned out great

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Congrats you are no longer, as the president says, a "sportsman."

[LoudBoomBoom 26]

kshew97 - Congrats!

 

Other posters - If whatever you did worked for you, Congrats to you too. Keep in mind, though, different people have different comfort levels when confronting new situations. Telling anyone to just jump in and do it doesn't always work if there are unknown variables to you that they themselves need to control first. There is more satisfaction in a job well done when you know for sure the reasons behind every step you took as opossed to just blindly succumbing to peer pressure.

 

All future 'chickens' - If you have done your research, if you have watched the pertinent videos, if you have the tools required, if you have just a little bit of experience with tools and repairing things, and the willingness to try doing it yourself and still have second thoughts, that in no way is indicative of any sort of inadequacy of your 'junk'. The problem is one of perception. As suggested by MisterT (I think), break down the situation into its simplest parts and then attack each individually. I have worked as a machinist, I now work as an engineer, I have a small shop in the back setup with the basics, been doing my own gunsmithing for over 30 years, and I still approched drilling those rivets out cautiously; I NEEDED to be sure I wasn't going to mess up ANYTHING because this was my first time doing this. I knew I could do it, but needed to assure myself I was doing it right. That meant not making assumptions based on someone else's success, or bravado.

 

How did I know for sure that the rivet head was centered, concentric, with the rivet body? If it wasn't, and I drilled its presumed center, I might end up enlarging the very hole I wanted to protect. First, I needed to determine the exact center of the rivet body so I could eliminate the guessing from the process. To do this, I ground off the head of the rivet slowly until, just before touching the edge of the hole, I could see its outline. At this point I could center punch the center and go in with my smallest center drill. I followed this with a TiN 1/16 drill bit and then with another TiN bit just under the rivet body size. This completely avoided the edge of the hole and took the stress off the rivet so I could easily punch it out. I took no risks, achieved total success and, in the process, learned that the rivet head had been, indeed, a little bit off center. If I had just drilled without satisfying my need to be sure, it would have worked anyway, but I would have been less happy knowing that, even if you couldn't see it because it was now hidden, there was evidence still there of my haste, and that would gnaw at me. Yes, I know, I am weird that way. I value precision over quickness just about every time.

 

Granted, in a production environment, this level of attention to detail would be impractical. But this was MY gun. So it took me ten minutes instead of only three... I can happily and without regrets live with that. .And I have no doubts or insecurities at all about my gender or specie (100% male Homo sapiens, 0% Gallus gallus domesticus) I know many in this forum feel this way even if many others don't, and I have no problem with that either.

[gunfun 3,931]

grinding the rivets rather than drilling them is easier, and is less dependant on concentricity. You can do the whole job with a file and either a drill or some grinding tool. More tools is nicer, but a $20 dremel clone will get the job done.

 

I think people who are not used to power tools will have an easier time controlling a $20 right angle grinder and skinny wheel than they would using a cut off wheel on a dremel without binding or skittering all over the place. I personally chose this method and removed the last ring with a cold chisel & punch to minimize marring around the hole.

 

Others seem to think they need to make a special mounting block and a Bridgeport mill to remove their rivets.

 

Whatever gets you there, use it.

Edited February 6, 2013 by GunFun

[gunman1 1,753]

a $20 right angle grinder and skinny wheel than they would using a cut off wheel on a dremel without binding or skittering all over the place. I personally chose this method and removed the last ring with a cold chisel & punch to minimize marring around the hole.

This is ezactly how I did my last one (the .308), record time

[jdtravers 637]

When I first started building Saiga 12 Shotguns a few years ago, I drilled out rivets on the milling machine. BUT, running a business and trying to make a buck is all about

Time is money!

 

Get a grinder and grind those fuckers off.

 

I have thought about videoing my disassemble of a stock Saiga, but I afraid it might scare some people!! I have timed it and once I have the shotgun in the barrel vice, I can have all the parts out, all the pins, FCG, recoil assembly and plastic out/off in approximately 2 minutes. Completely stripped to a bare receiver, barrel with the gas block/tube is all that's left.

 

Jack

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Seems the angle grinder crowd is growing. My only concern is that with the typical grinding discs I use (couldn't tell you what they are... Just "normal" discs) a brief moment of inattention or a sneeze and I'm going to scar my receiver.

 

Are you guys using a less aggressive grinding wheel than a "normal" one? Or is it just a steady hand and guts?

Edited February 7, 2013 by Maxwelhse

[jdtravers 637]

Gotta go with what you are comfortable with and how well the work piece is secured. I use a 4" right angle grinder and lay into the rivets until they burn into the trigger guard. But, I have been working with my hands all my life and just about every day for the last 15 years since I retired and I have yet to touch the receiver even when doing the axis pins. I use a drum sander on a dremmel and lightly take off the heads of the indented side of the axis pins and then drive them the rest of the way out with a pin punch.

 

The rifle/shotgun receiver is facing up when it is secured in the barrel vice. I lay my left armpit/body over the butt stock to keep me steady and keeping the grinder from walking away and I lay into the rivets.

 

Jack

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

This is what I use, first with 80grt sanding disk, then one of the red pads to clean up the surface.

 

For a regular electric angle grinder you can buy these in varing coursness..however they are kinda big and can be tricky to get into tight places:

[LoudBoomBoom 26]

GunFun - Oooohh... You used that word that gives me goosebumps and makes my pupils expand, and I feel lust in my heart...

Bridgeport!

 

I apologize; It took me a moment there to get my composure back and wipe the drool off my chin... Anyway, I got a small, crappy, mill that is hardly much more than a glorified drill press and when I come across the unexpected use of that word... Bridgeport...

 

Sorry. My mind drifted off. What were we talking about?... Is it hot in here, or is it just me?

Edited February 8, 2013 by LoudBoomBoom

[gunfun 3,931]

There you have it. The guy who does hundreds a year and has his choice of tools uses the simple ones.

 

I don't even have a drill press, or a place to keep one. I've been tempted, but then I always catch myself when I realize that I couldn't open the oven door with a drill press in the kitchen. Hope deferred--

[Terminator03 18]

GunFun - Oooohh... You used that word that gives me goosebumps and makes my pupils expand, and I feel lust in my heart...

Bridgeport!

 

I apologize; It took me a moment there to get my composure back and wipe the drool off my chin... Anyway, I got a small, crappy, mill that is hardly much more than a glorified drill press and when I come across the unexpected use of that word... Bridgeport...

 

Sorry. My mind drifted off. What were we talking about?... Is it hot in here, or is it just me?

That's funny about the Bridgeport! I have one and a lathe in my home shop, but would still just use a right angle grinder on the rivets!

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

There you have it. The guy who does hundreds a year and has his choice of tools uses the simple ones.

 

I don't even have a drill press, or a place to keep one. I've been tempted, but then I always catch myself when I realize that I couldn't open the oven door with a drill press in the kitchen. Hope deferred--

 

I didn't have a place to keep mine either when I bought it... STILL damn glad I bought it. I used it on the concrete driveway for awhile until I bought my house. It's a bench top model (though a robust one).

 

You don't have much of a shop at all without compressed air or a drill press... Those 2 things should come before most others as far as I'm concerned (not intending to insult you or insist that machine tools are the only road to success... just expressing myself).

[Big John! 2,062]

There you have it. The guy who does hundreds a year and has his choice of tools uses the simple ones.

 

I don't even have a drill press, or a place to keep one. I've been tempted, but then I always catch myself when I realize that I couldn't open the oven door with a drill press in the kitchen. Hope deferred--

 

I didn't have a place to keep mine either when I bought it... STILL damn glad I bought it. I used it on the concrete driveway for awhile until I bought my house. It's a bench top model (though a robust one).

 

You don't have much of a shop at all without compressed air or a drill press... Those 2 things should come before most others as far as I'm concerned (not intending to insult you or insist that machine tools are the only road to success... just expressing myself).

I concur.

I love tools and have many. Automotive, Welding, woodworking, etc... The kids are growing up and the wife and I are talking about downsizing within the next few years. She's gonna be pissed when our living room closely resembles my current 3 1/2 car garage.