rcc1111 3 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 First let me start off with some background on my S12. It cycled low and high brass round with no problem. I then decieded I wanted HK sights. So I took it to one of my local gun shops and had them install HK sights. I got the gun back, took it to the range and I couldn't get anothing to cycle. Took the gun home and tried to take the factory puck out and it did not fall out like it normally does. I had to beat it out a hammer and dowel rod. I figured the gun smith welded the HK sights on with the factory puck still in the gas block. Since there were deep scratches in the puck. So I took it back to my local gun shop to fix the work. Finally got the gun back and they said it runs like a champ now... Took the gun to the range again and now it cycles high brass 95% of the time and does not cycle low brass at all now. Took the gun home and tried to take the gas puck out and once again it still did not fall out. I had to use a hammer and dowel again. Only now it just took less force to get it out. I took one of the after market pucks I had and tried to see if it would fit any better and it fit even worse. I would not even do down past the threads in the gas block. So my question is Do i polish up all of my aftermarket pucks to fit the gas block? Or would it be better to hone out the gas block a small amout so I can use the my factory or aftermarket pucks? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Sounds like they warped the walls of the gas block when welding. Honing the gas block might be a good idea, but you want to keep the same tolerances as the factory. If too much material is removed, you could allow gas to blow by making your s12 function worse. Definitely need to check measurements before doing anything. Maybe try contacting tony rumore and see if he has ever run into this problem and what would be the best course of action to fix it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Captken 6 Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 You can go to your local auto parts warehouses and they should have a little hone used to hone automotive brake cylinders. If you are brave, you can try that a little at a time to see if it clears the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Does anyone know how far back into the gas block the gas puck should go? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 What happens is, when you weld the h and k sights sometimes some over penetration happens and you'll get a little stalagtite of weld inside the chamber. Also some contraction of the gas block will make the puck difficult to remove. Some honing for the over pen is fine. but keep it minimal and dont grind to far back, and watch your threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 yikes. I would want to know what they did to "fix " it. Did they clean up the gas block? did they clean up the puck? did they leave those two alone and just jack the porting way up to overcome the drag?... some combination... They owe you a gun that works at least as well as the one you handed to them. That's your right. Whether it makes sense to stand on your rights and continue to mess with them might be another issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 yikes. I would want to know what they did to "fix " it. Did they clean up the gas block? did they clean up the puck? did they leave those two alone and just jack the porting way up to overcome the drag?... some combination... They owe you a gun that works at least as well as the one you handed to them. That's your right. Whether it makes sense to stand on your rights and continue to mess with them might be another issue. As far as I can tell to fix it they may have done some minor honing (but hard to tell the gun was away for so long) on the gas block and they buffed the puck down until the scratched were out of the puck. After taking off the gas block today, the gas ports look to be untouch. As far as me taking it back to them to fix it. I am done with that since it took around 4 months for them to put the sights on and not do any type of test fire after the instal. And almost 3 months for them to do whatever honing and buffing they did. Plus i got more and more pissed every time I went to their facebook page and saw that they had time to build a bunch of full auto stuff for themselfs and not do any work on my gun. It's a great shop and all I just will not give them any more of my guns to do any work on. If I had a welder/ knew how to weld I would have just done it myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Okay if they ground on the puck at all, you need a new puck. Secondly look and see if you can see the obstrction. Chances are it's just a little warping. You can replace the puck for about $10. The just oil your puck up, and intall and remove again and again untill it moves freely inside the gas chamber. After just wipe off the oil and use as normal. Ofcourse you'll want to adress those ports too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Update. Took gun the gun to the range last night for some testing. I poIished the bolt, carrier and hammer. Replaced my puck with a css G2 puck and I replaced the gas plug with a DPH plug. I ran 75 rounds of Federal 8 shot 1145 FPS target loads. Every was FTE some blew the bolt back, some didn't. This happened with both the messed up factory puck and plug as well as the aftermarket parts. I ran 25 round of Federal 7 1/2 shot 1200 FPS target loads and had 5 round FTE. I am not sure which would be better. Checking to see if my ports are drilled to the correct size (if not drill them to the correct size) would help the Federal 1145 FPS round eject. Or just make sure that I buy 1200 FPS rounds from now on. And forget about using the 1145 FPS rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Open the ports. Ensure your puck moves freely. Enjoy your shot gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 The CSS puck moves freely but the factory puck does not. I knew I should have checked the ports what I had the gas block off... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It's not hard to remove. I've found that once they've been taken apart once they come apart the second time much easier. It'll take ya 5 minutes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 The more I hear of stories like this one, the more I'm convinced that letting anyone outside of this community touch one of my Saiga's is just a terrible mistake. I don't think anyone understands these firearms like we do. I also think that most of the so called Professionals are just eago-maniacs that think they know everything, you can't tell them shit, and they sure as hell wouldn't come here for information. I'll do the work my-self, that way I'm the only one to blame, but atleast I'll know what was done wrong. Stories like this just piss me off 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Took the gas block off and one of the ports is .078. The other 2 ports i couldnt even get the .078 drill bit to fit in all the way. Looks like I am going to drill out the ports now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 go atleast .093 for all 3 ports..if bigger proceed gradually. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Or you could add a 4th port at .078" if you have the room. Just chase the other 3 that you have with the 5/64th bit as well. That would probably be the best option. But 3 at .093" will work just fine. Edited March 7, 2013 by sapper1371usmc 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Run and Gun 25 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Make sure your gas ports aren't covered by the gas block also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) If I had 3 tiny ports, I would look to see if I could make it 5 tinyish ports @ ~.072 to start. If the pattern doesn't fit well then 4 @ .078 as a starting point. IIRC I ended up with 5 evenly spaced ports @ .076 on the 109 although it was running win bulk one step smaller. it started with 3 micro ports but actually ran win bulk with the stock FCG and a booster puck. After conversion and a decrease in the performance of win bulk, I added the extra ports and tuned to run without the booster. I can always throw the booster back in if I want to run super light ammo and I know I won't shoot 3". (i.e. competition with range provided reduced recoil crap.) Edited March 7, 2013 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Is it me or are we ignoring that the gun shop warped his gas block? I'd be really pissed personally. The cycling issues I can deal with. Not being able to get the puck in and out without a hammer is unacceptable to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 If the puck moves freely and the gas plug spins in properly it's not warped bad enough to cause an issue. It's IMPOSSIBLE to weld h&k sights on the gb with out a little bit of warping. That's just the nature of the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 The more I hear of stories like this one, the more I'm convinced that letting anyone outside of this community touch one of my Saiga's is just a terrible mistake. I don't think anyone understands these firearms like we do. I also think that most of the so called Professionals are just eago-maniacs that think they know everything, you can't tell them shit, and they sure as hell wouldn't come here for information. I'll do the work my-self, that way I'm the only one to blame, but atleast I'll know what was done wrong. Stories like this just piss me off My thoughts exactly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Last night I went ahead and opened up the 3 ports to .093. None of the ports are covered by the gas block. I dont have room to make a 4th hole unless i open up the gas block hole a lot more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 Then that sounds like a reasonable course of action. It may end up needing another step up, but test for function first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 If a 4th port is needed should it all be drilled to .093 or .078? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 4 ports at .078 That is the standard. If you cant fit a 4th port, just drill out the three you currently have to .093" Either will give you a fully functioning S12 that will cycle Win Universal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted March 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 Update. Took the gun to the range today and it is cycling all type of low brass like it did in the old days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 It's not hard to remove. I've found that once they've been taken apart once they come apart the second time much easier. It'll take ya 5 minutes. I took mine off last night for the first time. Took all of 10 minutes. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcc1111 3 Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Wish my block would have come off that easy. I had to take mine off with an air hammer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 My current gun is easy. The last one required heat to remove it as well as put it on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 If the puck moves freely and the gas plug spins in properly it's not warped bad enough to cause an issue. It's IMPOSSIBLE to weld h&k sights on the gb with out a little bit of warping. That's just the nature of the process. i dunno, my bad ass mufffler welder buddy (who is also a card carrying Russkie) did some hk sights on mine, and had no issues. he welded it farther back on hte block...no problems (or maybe i just didnt see them)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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