Chaingun81 3 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I took my brand new Saiga-12 shotgun to the range on Friday. I’m very familiar with AK platform and therefore neglected to fully read the manual, so I had no idea about 2 different gas settings on Saiga-12. I was surprised by violent recoil and magnum shells ejecting 5 feet downrange so I tried to do some research upon my return from the range and to my horror realized that I was firing a bunch of high power shells on “2” setting, which is reserved for weak loads. I read a few horror stories of bent and cracked rear trunnions from doing exactly this and I’m now really worried that I might have seriously damaged my Saiga. Here what I shot through it using “2” gas setting: 2-3/4” rifled slugs x 40 shells 3” rifled slugs x 5 shells 3” #4 buckshot x 2 shells 2-3/4” 00 buckshot x 3 shells 2-3/4” 7-1/2” target load x 5 shells As you can see out of 55 shells I shot, only 5 were meant to be fired on “2” setting and the other 50 should have been fired using restricted “1” setting. I’m not sure if this number of shells would bring any serious damage or not. I inspected the rear trunnion and bolt carrier and both are definitely scuffed up by recoil, although damage appears to be rather superficial and mostly paint related. Nothing looks bent, cracked or out of shape. Interestingly enough, similar marks appear on touching surfaces of the front of the bolt carrier and front trunnion, which I doubt have anything to do with gas setting – is that just normal break-in process? Take a look at 4 pictures below: rear trunnion, rear of bolt carrier, front trunnion, and front of bolt carrier. Let me know what y’all think and whether or not I have anything to worry about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeAK 337 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Looks fine to me, just took the paint off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
varickm 10 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 It looks fine. Just don't do it again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I don't see any damage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Looks normal to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 In the first pic, at the right side where the trunion meets the receiver, in the corner is it showing bare metal where the trunion has moved out of the receiver or is that just the way the light is hitting it? Also what do the rivet heads that are holding the rear trunion on the outside of the receiver look like. Even if the trunion did move a little it is not a big deal. Just don't do it again as been mentioned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Holy crap thats the worst I've ever seen. It's probably not even safe to fire anymore without risking a kaboom. So youll need to part it out and hopefully you can recover some of the funds it will take to purchase a new S12. Im one to help out a fellow S12 members so Ill step up and buy the bolt for $75. I usually wouldnt offer top dollar for a potentially damaged part, but if it gets you closer to owning a safe gun without injuring you or others, Im all for it. What do you say? Jk 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barrage 33 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 If you haven't seen them already, I'd recommend picking up an MD Arms V-Plug, or the Tac-47 Autoplug, both available in the e-store on this site. I'm using the V-plug currently, and it's made remembering to switch my settings a lot easier, if for no other reason that it's less of a pain in the a$$ to switch. The plug is designed to keep retention from the detent pin while still being able to simply turn to the next setting with minimal effort. Works great, plus gives you the added benefit of 3 settings. The Autoplug is supposed to regulate overgassing automatically, but I can't speak to how well it works as I haven't received mine yet. Both plugs have been covered extensively on this board and others, so you'll have plenty of opinions to think on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Holy crap thats the worst I've ever seen. It's probably not even safe to fire anymore without risking a kaboom. So youll need to part it out and hopefully you can recover some of the funds it will take to purchase a new S12. Im one to help out a fellow S12 members so Ill step up and buy the bolt for $75. I usually wouldnt offer top dollar for a potentially damaged part, but if it gets you closer to owning a safe gun without injuring you or others, Im all for it. What do you say? Jk You beat me at my own game. I'll give you $500 for the whole gun. I would normally give you closer to $599, but it seems severely damaged. I like my weapons dangerous, like my wimmin's, so I'm willing to take a chance on that hazardous weapon of yours. Please send me your contact info as well as your bank account number, and the pin number for your atm card to make it a smoother transaction. I will then send my staff to pick up said dangerous weapon and deliver to me as a service to you. Look forward to hearing from you soon... Edited February 18, 2013 by Big John! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Holy crap thats the worst I've ever seen. It's probably not even safe to fire anymore without risking a kaboom. So youll need to part it out and hopefully you can recover some of the funds it will take to purchase a new S12. Im one to help out a fellow S12 members so Ill step up and buy the bolt for $75. I usually wouldnt offer top dollar for a potentially damaged part, but if it gets you closer to owning a safe gun without injuring you or others, Im all for it. What do you say? Jk You beat me at my own game. I'll give you $500 for the whole gun. I would normally give you closer to $599, but it seems severely damaged. I like my weapons dangerous, like my wimmin's, so I'm willing to take a chance on that hazardous weapon of yours. Please send me your contact info as well as your bank account number, and the pin number for your atm card to make it a smoother transaction. I will then send my staff to pick up said dangerous weapon and deliver to me as a service to you. Look forward to hearing from you soon... I dont know about you OP, but the above sounds like a scam. Do not contact him. Ive seen him scamming several other members and the outcome hasnt been good. He enjoys scamming people, swiping their guns and their money right out from under their nose. You know what they say, If it sounds this good, it cant be true. All that aside, the offer I made above is legit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 It is fine. Don't worry about the rear block. Your main concern should be the carrier where the op-rod threads in and at the thin point just behind that. This area usually will show signs of failure before anything else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Echo... Nothing wrong/damaged. Pay attention from now on. And yeah, cracked bolt carrier at the op-rod is an area of concern, more so than the trunnion.\ And from personal experience, be careful when removal/replacing gas puck, so as not to damage the gas block threads. Edited February 18, 2013 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Like Evl said look at the front end for damage. Also it looks like you could have possibly deformed the rear of the carrier where it was impacting the trunnion. Make sure there aren't any mushroomed sharp edges scraping the rails. If so they need to be cleaned back up with a file so you don't have extra resistance or rail damage over time. As far as the Trunnion itself, it looks fine. I messed mine up a lot worse when I fired mine like that the first time with magnum turkey loads. I had to actually drive my recoil spring button out and clean up the pinched slots for it in the trunnion. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingun81 3 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 In the first pic, at the right side where the trunion meets the receiver, in the corner is it showing bare metal where the trunion has moved out of the receiver or is that just the way the light is hitting it? Also what do the rivet heads that are holding the rear trunion on the outside of the receiver look like. Even if the trunion did move a little it is not a big deal. Just don't do it again as been mentioned. You know, I didn't notice this until you mentioned it. I looked at it with a flashlight and it definitely appears that there is a very thin line of bare metal right at this corner. Rivets on the outside look absoutely normal, and trunnion doesn't appear like it have moved so maybe this was just a slight move within it's normal tolerance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingun81 3 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 If you haven't seen them already, I'd recommend picking up an MD Arms V-Plug, or the Tac-47 Autoplug, both available in the e-store on this site. I'm using the V-plug currently, and it's made remembering to switch my settings a lot easier, if for no other reason that it's less of a pain in the a$$ to switch. The plug is designed to keep retention from the detent pin while still being able to simply turn to the next setting with minimal effort. Works great, plus gives you the added benefit of 3 settings. The Autoplug is supposed to regulate overgassing automatically, but I can't speak to how well it works as I haven't received mine yet. Both plugs have been covered extensively on this board and others, so you'll have plenty of opinions to think on. I read about these 2 in several sources today, but reviews were mixed. Some people seemed to think these plugs weren't working as intended. I'll do a bit more research and think about it - thanks! Holy crap thats the worst I've ever seen. It's probably not even safe to fire anymore without risking a kaboom. So youll need to part it out and hopefully you can recover some of the funds it will take to purchase a new S12. Im one to help out a fellow S12 members so Ill step up and buy the bolt for $75. I usually wouldnt offer top dollar for a potentially damaged part, but if it gets you closer to owning a safe gun without injuring you or others, Im all for it. What do you say? Jk You beat me at my own game. I'll give you $500 for the whole gun. I would normally give you closer to $599, but it seems severely damaged. I like my weapons dangerous, like my wimmin's, so I'm willing to take a chance on that hazardous weapon of yours. Please send me your contact info as well as your bank account number, and the pin number for your atm card to make it a smoother transaction. I will then send my staff to pick up said dangerous weapon and deliver to me as a service to you. Look forward to hearing from you soon... I dont know about you OP, but the above sounds like a scam. Do not contact him. Ive seen him scamming several other members and the outcome hasnt been good. He enjoys scamming people, swiping their guns and their money right out from under their nose. You know what they say, If it sounds this good, it cant be true. All that aside, the offer I made above is legit. You two are so kind I feel bad that you'd take my dangerously defective firearm, pay me big bucks for it and risk bodily injury! I tell you what - how about I send it to you free of charge, pay for shipping, send you some free ammo as a thank you gift and accept full financial liability for anything that may go wrong with it. Now it's a bit more fair. Whatcha think? It is fine. Don't worry about the rear block. Your main concern should be the carrier where the op-rod threads in and at the thin point just behind that. This area usually will show signs of failure before anything else. I looked there - no visible damage around that area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chaingun81 3 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Echo... Nothing wrong/damaged. Pay attention from now on. And yeah, cracked bolt carrier at the op-rod is an area of concern, more so than the trunnion.\ And from personal experience, be careful when removal/replacing gas puck, so as not to damage the gas block threads. Thanks. How should I remove it to avoid thread damage? Is there anything specific I can do? Like Evl said look at the front end for damage. Also it looks like you could have possibly deformed the rear of the carrier where it was impacting the trunnion. Make sure there aren't any mushroomed sharp edges scraping the rails. If so they need to be cleaned back up with a file so you don't have extra resistance or rail damage over time. As far as the Trunnion itself, it looks fine. I messed mine up a lot worse when I fired mine like that the first time with magnum turkey loads. I had to actually drive my recoil spring button out and clean up the pinched slots for it in the trunnion. Thanks - I'll check the back of the bolt carrier although it doesn't appear to have any mushrooming. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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