bruce soderholm 4 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I have sgm mags that fail to load the first round when loaded with 2 3/4 rem 9 pellet buck and 2 3/4win PDX12 rounds. The mag when loaded with ten rounds of buck or pdx12, the rounds drive into the bottom of the barrel. When down graded to 8rds, the first round chambers. Now when I load the mags with 10 rounds of Fed 7 1/2 100 pack round the first round chambers and all go off 100% no ftf. This is what I noticed. Factory mag loaded buck sgm 10rds loaded buck sgm 8rds loaded buck sgm 10rd loaded bird shot sgm buck FTF sgm pdx12 FTF I contacted sgm and was told it's my gun and they will replace them with the same mags. Is anybody else having these same issue's with SGM 10 rd mags? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 SGM's stance on all potential (notice I wrote potential) SGM mag issues, is that it's the VEPR, and never the SGM magazine. Read around some and you'll see that every single SGM magazine for the S12 is 100% identical and correct in function and fit, eliminating the magazine form any potential fault.... I laughed too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 ensure u are not loading the one more round than the max capacity of the magazine. (this goes for both factory and aftermarket) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted March 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 They are loaded with 10 rounds and even at 8 rounds look at how low the rounds sit in the mag almost a 1/2'' lower then the factory 5 round mag loaded. It's clear that the feed angle changes after each round is added to the sgm mag. Even with one round in the sgm, the mag holds the rounds lower then the factory mag. Sgm came up with their on design on these, instead of copying the factory mag. According to the guy a sgm my vepr and mag that came with the gun are one offs from the factory. Even after I told him the second factory mag I got after I received my vepr works and functions the same as the one that came with the gun. I have 10-10rd SGM mags and they all do the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGM 217 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 We will be happy to replace any and all magazines that need to have a warranty issue addressed. I know it is hard to believe but the firearms vary (hell one guy on here couldn't even use our mags because the mag well was so out of spec on the shotgun also he could only use the factory mag that came with the gun) and our mags are from a brand new mold so they are basically identical. Unlike other companies we do not attempt to simply copy other companies products that is simply wrong and not ethical. Does everyone know that the coveted factory mags are not all identical and are actually fitted to each firearm? it is true, when the rear metal locking lug is inserted it is fitted to the specific firearm then painted. We have identified what is causing the follower to not move all the way up on some of the new magazines and it is simply a matter of the factory not cleaning and trimming the body good enough on the inside backstrap. So we recommend if the customer doesn't want to send them back to either hand load and unload the mags a few times to eliminate the issue or find the spot and dissemble the magazine and lightly sand on the inside of the back strap where the follower is getting stuck. Or simply send them back for replacement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 SGM: Can you guys provide some pictures examples of a SGM backstrap before and after sanding so we can understand what to look for, etc? OP: Do a test. See if your follower sticks on the SGMs when seated in the vepr. Remove your Bolt and Carrier Group. Leave the top cover up. Find yourself a heavy table/bench or something you can rest the handguard on. Leaving enough room for the mag. Insert a mag, depress the follower repeatedly. Does it ever stick or feel sticky? Now, Pull the mag bottom back as hard as you can without breaking it. Or use the bench to leverage it back by pushing forward on the firearm. Repeat depressing the follower. More or less sticky follower? Same thing, but push forward on the bottom of the mag. One vepr I had locked the follower up completely when I pushed on the mag. I noticed a full mag of slugs caused this as well, perhaps weight distribution. Turns out it was deforming the mag in the magwell causing it to pinch the follower. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Went out today with mine and a friends vepr 12's. We had 3 5rd molot, 1 8rd molot, 1 izhmash 8rd, 1 modded AGP, and my 10 sgm's. All mags worked in both veprs but the SGM's with high brass only. after shooting we took a look at the mags and this is what we found. The SGM mags are collapsing in the middle at the top 5rd section of the mag and pinching the high brass. The mag do not do this with low brass as the brass is not as long. This pinching of the brass is what causes the rounds to nose dive as this is the pivot point in the mag. with no spring or follower in the mag high brass shells can not pass threw the top 5rd section of the mag. All ten of mine are like this. With 5 shells being pniched at once causes the rounds to nose dive when the bolt passes over them. I'am 100% sure the mags are at fault here and not the gun or guns now. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Seek out Molot USA's 8rd mags for starters. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Tired of being nice and politically correct. SGM Vepr 12 mags are garbage. Period. Edited April 25, 2013 by Muffman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sharky 1 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Went out today with mine and a friends vepr 12's. We had 3 5rd molot, 1 8rd molot, 1 izhmash 8rd, 1 modded AGP, and my 10 sgm's. All mags worked in both veprs but the SGM's with high brass only. after shooting we took a look at the mags and this is what we found. The SGM mags are collapsing in the middle at the top 5rd section of the mag and pinching the high brass. The mag do not do this with low brass as the brass is not as long. This pinching of the brass is what causes the rounds to nose dive as this is the pivot point in the mag. with no spring or follower in the mag high brass shells can not pass threw the top 5rd section of the mag. All ten of mine are like this. With 5 shells being pniched at once causes the rounds to nose dive when the bolt passes over them. I'am 100% sure the mags are at fault here and not the gun or guns now. This could be trouble.... Sharky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40calpunisher 0 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I've got SGM 10 and 12rd mags and besides them not actuating the LBHO they work great in my VEPR! So far I have only shot Federal Value Pack. Guess I lucked out... Edited April 25, 2013 by 40calpunisher Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGM 217 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 send them back for replacements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 send them back for replacements. Is SGM paying for return shipping? I feel that I should not have to pay for return shipping on 10 defective mags. Especially after SGM blamed the gun and dropping just under $400 on these mags. These cannot be the only 10 mags like this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I've got SGM 10 and 12rd mags and besides them not actuating the LBHO they work great in my VEPR! So far I have only shot Federal Value Pack. Guess I lucked out... How did you luck out? You have not tried high brass yet and the LRBHO does not work because the SGM mag follower sit's lower then the factory mag. My friends vepr did this also, you need to remove the LRBHO lever and bend it down some. My SGM mags feed low brass 100% no ftf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Not sure I would bend my LRBHO lever just yet, only if you plan to use SGMs only and/or it's proven to not effect the system(s) when using Molot mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40calpunisher 0 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I've got SGM 10 and 12rd mags and besides them not actuating the LBHO they work great in my VEPR! So far I have only shot Federal Value Pack. Guess I lucked out... How did you luck out? You have not tried high brass yet and the LRBHO does not work because the SGM mag follower sit's lower then the factory mag. My friends vepr did this also, you need to remove the LRBHO lever and bend it down some. My SGM mags feed low brass 100% no ftf. Oops, must have deleted the part where I said that my 10rder works with high brass. After reading this thread I loaded up my 10rder with buck and it feeds that first round every time. I am using 2 3/4" Remington Express 00 buck IIRC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
40calpunisher 0 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 send them back for replacements. Do you have a newer follower that will work with the LRBHO? I bought all my SGM's new and none of them will trip the LRBHO. If I send these mags in under warranty, would I just be getting new replacements that still wont trip the LRBHO? Thanks, Joe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I really don't know why so many of you guys are having trouble with these. I have 3 of the 12 rndrs and never had any feeding issues. When I first got mine I left them loaded for a week. I never had my followers stick either. I hope you guys get them figured out, as they are good magazines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I haven't had any issues with the SGMs in one of my veprs, the other one is another story entirely. That being said, clearly there are variances. The pictures showing the concave sides indicate there is in fact and issue with the mags Havock has, so it's not really something for Havock to figure out rather it's defective product, the opposite of a good magazine. Edited April 25, 2013 by ec4321 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I haven't had any issues with the SGMs in one of my veprs, the other one is another story entirely. That being said, clearly there are variances. The pictures showing the concave sides indicate there is in fact and issue with the mags Havock has, so it's not really something for Havock to figure out rather it's defective product, the opposite of a good magazine. I can see that. I wish I had another V12 so I could test this further. I know that others may feel differently, but Ive been pleased with all of the mags I have for this shotgun, not just the SGM. I dont have any issues using any of the Russian mags I have, nor the Izzy 8's that my buddy has for his S12. This is a pretty fucked up phenomenon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGM 217 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 If anyone has issues with our magazines all they have to do is contact us via phone or email. we stand behind our products for 5 years and deal directly with the consumer. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I will say this.... when there was an issue with feeding from SGMs on my one vepr fully documented to be a variance in the dimensions on the vepr, but they would work fine with the molot mags, SGM had offered to swap out the Vepr to fix the issue. Email them and see what can be done, it looks like the mags may need to be swapped out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrewOnFire 1 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I have been a longtime lurker, not normally one to jump in but at the risk of being labeled the douchewaffle FNG, here goes.I've had nothing but problems with the SGM mags. FTF on average every other round. Sometime if lucky it may feed 4 in a row but that is rare. The mags lock in fine. The feed angle appears to be much more steep with the SGM as compared to the factory molot 5 and 8s I have. Pressing the follower on the SGM is not smooth, both when out of the weapon as well as when locked into the magwell.When I took the SGM mags apart just to clean them to see if that would help, they were littered with plastic debris. Even after cleaning this out and lubing the mags as SGM suggested they are still in the same state; not reliable. As an engineer I find the VEPR "variations" excuse just that, a sad excuse. Any engineer knows to account for slight variation in the host when developing an accessory. And why do you suppose the factory Molot mags work; they have accounted for slight variations that MAY exist. And this break-in period, just bull. Anyone else had mags with a break-in period? Long story short, took the SGM mags to a friend that has a CAD modeling/ CNC business. He checked them over and he said he was surprised at the inconsistency of the outside dimension along with the inside dimensions of the mag cavity that the follower travels. Front to back and side to side. Could see this binding. Also, the rounds appear to have severe friction with the small notch cut into the back of the interior of the mag at the very top. When testing, the rear brass hangs in this notch sometime preventing full travel all the way to the feed lips.In aggravation, I e-mailed SGM over a month ago, and have not received a response for a return. My first e-mail to them months ago was returned promptly with ideas to help function better along with the promise to stand by the product if a return was needed. I am not sure I want the mags anyway without a significant change ( anyone waiting on a Gen 2 announcement) or the assurance that this was a production problem. Not the ideal first post but I just want my experience to be out there as well. I have 3 other friend with VEPR 12s and we are all disappointed with the SGM mags. Enough to where, like others, we have bit the bullet and purchase some of the Molot 8s from Molot USA. I wish SGM would issue refunds so at least for every 2 SGM mags I could buy 1 of those damn expensive Molot 8s. Not sure why the above post is a long run on.... When I see it even in preview it has my paragraph structure... Sorry. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 even factory mags sometimes need fitment..the guns are not all the same spec. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) If anyone has issues with our magazines all they have to do is contact us via phone or email. we stand behind our products for 5 years and deal directly with the consumer. I tried this a month ago and I was told it was my gun and was brushed off by the guy who I talk too. He was not concerned about my problem mags only blamed the gun and said this will happen with any mag but the 5rd mag that came with it. And new sgm's will do the same thing because its my gun. Which was not the case at the time when I talked to SGM. So I had to take it to the public fourms for all to see. I sent SGM a email asking for return shipping to be paid for and a return number if needed. Edited April 27, 2013 by HAVOK12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 Havock, keep in mind SGM is the distributor of the Vepr-12. So all of those firearms pass through their hands as well, they are part of the supply chain. If they are saying it's the gun, then hold them accountable for that. If I were you, I would contact Wolf as well, inform Wolf that where SGM stands on the issue. They are partners in this. You have a Vepr-12 and SGM Mags for that Vepr-12. They need to make sure that complete system works together or make it right otherwise. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Zero problems running SGM mags in my 030. Maybe you guys could replace the lrbho lever with after market or 030 lever? Lets seem some pics, what are the differences Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Muffman" data-cid="894871" data-time="1366864419"><p> Tired of being nice and politically correct. SGM Vepr 12 mags are garbage. Period.</p></blockquote> All IZHMASH S12s and KS-K shotguns run SMG fine. You're a moron. Period. Tired of being politically correct - When will you guys accept that the VEPR12 is a poorly built turd? I just hope the vepr-12s shitty rep doesn't rub off and lower the price of my properly built Saiga KS-K. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Havock, keep in mind SGM is the distributor of the Vepr-12. So all of those firearms pass through their hands as well, they are part of the supply chain. If they are saying it's the gun, then hold them accountable for that. If I were you, I would contact Wolf as well, inform Wolf that where SGM stands on the issue. They are partners in this. You have a Vepr-12 and SGM Mags for that Vepr-12. They need to make sure that complete system works together or make it right otherwise. It is not the gun as sgm mags work 100% with no ftf or fte with low brass. It is the mags pinching the high brass. SGM blaming the gun is a lame excuse without looking at the mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Havock, keep in mind SGM is the distributor of the Vepr-12. So all of those firearms pass through their hands as well, they are part of the supply chain. If they are saying it's the gun, then hold them accountable for that. If I were you, I would contact Wolf as well, inform Wolf that where SGM stands on the issue. They are partners in this. You have a Vepr-12 and SGM Mags for that Vepr-12. They need to make sure that complete system works together or make it right otherwise. It is not the gun as sgm mags work 100% with no ftf or fte with low brass. It is the mags pinching the high brass. SGM blaming the gun is a lame excuse without looking at the mags. I am not saying it's the gun, but what I am saying is that IMO, SGM cannot wash their hands of an issue by pointing at the gun since they are the distributor. As the end consumer, if they say it's the gun - you say I will send the guns and the mags back, I expect you to fix or replace and send back to me. Keep in mind, it could be that a dimension on your particular vepr causes the SGMs to deform ever so slightly as to pinch the high brass - not the low brass. Which is what they might be getting at but they don't have the data to support it or articulate the actual issue. Whereas your mags may feed high brass just fine in another Vepr. I don't know that is the case, just speculating as to possibilities. I had a Vepr at one time that wouldn't feed without FTE from any SGM, but those same SGMS fed fine in any other tested Vepr. The Vepr was deforming the mags, some dimension in the magwell was apparently off. YET, it fed fine and without issue from the factory mags. So whose fault is that? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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