M15A4spr 0 Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 I haven't been around much recently, but a month or so ago, there were multiple threads about new US mfg's starting up production of saiga-12 mags. Where'd they go? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 hang around here long enough and you'll see the pattern. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Illumini 0 Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 lol These guys seem alot more believable than the .308 crowd though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 I'm sure they will resurface when they want some money or need to be worshipped. One of them stated the mags would be ready when the new Saigas got here...and we all know how that's going! The date I've seen several times - 6 weeks out. From what, I don't know. Aside from that... The steel mag looked to be further along. The synthetic one was a CAD model and a rapid prototype. Neither had pics of finished parts or molds/dies yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 When people start posting range reports on them, I will believe. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 --> QUOTE(G O B @ Dec 15 2005, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When people start posting range reports on them, I will believe. G O B Here's a list of what I believe right now. Both Kevin and Ian are real people, not just internet figurines. That third dude (can't remember his name, guy who had stuff ripped off) was iffy at best. They are both interested in making money, long term money not just lets rush to market and make a splash and then go hide for our lives when our mags turn out crap. Thats why Ian changed to metal, at quite a time expense and likely sunk costs into the patent process. They both have learned that quality sells, and nothing is worth tarnishing their name. They know that $ will not flow till the product hits the "stores". They have a vested interest in getting to market sooner than later, but not at expense of quality. This isn't likely their only project/work. If they were posting here regularly, someone would say ... stop typing and get working. BTW, the age old saying is "on time, on budget, done right .... pick 2 of the 3". I'll sacrifice time for the other 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M15A4spr 0 Posted December 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Here's a list of what I believe right now. Both Kevin and Ian are real people, not just internet figurines. That third dude (can't remember his name, guy who had stuff ripped off) was iffy at best. They are both interested in making money, long term money not just lets rush to market and make a splash and then go hide for our lives when our mags turn out crap. Thats why Ian changed to metal, at quite a time expense and likely sunk costs into the patent process. They both have learned that quality sells, and nothing is worth tarnishing their name. They know that $ will not flow till the product hits the "stores". They have a vested interest in getting to market sooner than later, but not at expense of quality. This isn't likely their only project/work. If they were posting here regularly, someone would say ... stop typing and get working. BTW, the age old saying is "on time, on budget, done right .... pick 2 of the 3". I'll sacrifice time for the other 2. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Illumini 0 Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Though the plastic ones look cool I thing the saiga solutions guys will have it out first. It's funny that ppl are already asking for the world out of them. (diff colors,belt clip attachments,red stars,poly chem resistant coating ect)In the spirit of Mother Russia Just make the stuff work right and don't go dancing in front of the batf with them when you finally get one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Those threads were at the top when there was more to be said about them. If more folks use the search feature and post on the threads we'll see them again. Simple enough to me. My impression is that at this point they're in a "less talk, more work" mode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twinhairdryers 2 Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Those threads were at the top when there was more to be said about them. If more folks use the search feature and post on the threads we'll see them again. Simple enough to me. My impression is that at this point they're in a "less talk, more work" mode. I do recall that Z1000 was the top dog who had a showing of a coupla prototypes that looked damn good. I think they are all in the test and re-tesest and find out which combinations work best before the unleashe the purchasing process. I have to have HUGE coodos to all that are trying - since they didn't make the holiday rush to take our money for orders, it could only mean that they are actually testing and refining their designs and materials, and tooling to get us something that works. I'd gladly pay 45.00 for 5 mags that work than 18.00 for 15 that dont. Nobody, including themselves thought it was going to be an easy Russsian copy process. dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Molds are being machined. I don't post every day about it because it's a long process and I don't think you guys care about the day to day BS. I'm more the type of guy who will just post a pic one day of 1000 mags built and ready to ship. My prototype mag has been test fired and went off 10rds in a row without a hitch. If you guys care I'm testing polymer blends right now to find what material I want to use. BTW- I'm way more worried about the shipment of Saiga's getting here in the next couple months. My mags are a sure thing that I have control over, but getting more S-12's into the states seems up in the air. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Illumini 0 Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Thats cool we all can understand where your coming from. It's just alot have ppl have talked a great deal then disappeared. More so with the .308s it would seem. Whenever we get an update it rocks and is interesting as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) Molds are being machined. I don't post every day about it because it's a long process and I don't think you guys care about the day to day BS. I'm more the type of guy who will just post a pic one day of 1000 mags built and ready to ship. My prototype mag has been test fired and went off 10rds in a row without a hitch. If you guys care I'm testing polymer blends right now to find what material I want to use. BTW- I'm way more worried about the shipment of Saiga's getting here in the next couple months. My mags are a sure thing that I have control over, but getting more S-12's into the states seems up in the air. Kevin Kevin and Ian, I appreciate the quiet, look forward to the day that we're buying, not talking about these. I wouldn't assume that we don't care about what you do, but I also appreciate that you don't come accross as pushing it down our throats. I for one would love it if you started a thread that outlined progress to getting these to market. Maybe give your best guess (not the earliest it could happen, but when you think it WILL happen). Bonus material would be expected pricing, when that becomes known. Then, update as you have any changes (ie. Vendor X crapped out deadline slips 25 days or Beta mags better than expected, we're ahead of schedule 10 days, Polymer pricing went down, mags are 3 dollars cheaper than quoted, etc) . Not trying to micromanage, or hassle ya. Just trying to make sure that I/checkbook is ready to go when you are .... Edited December 18, 2005 by kmoore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gummerfan 0 Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 I'm more the type of guy who will just post a pic one day of 1000 mags built and ready to ship. Only 1000?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 ...I don't think you guys care about the day to day BS.Kevin I think we do Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopdogg 0 Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 The photos of the prototype polymore (BEAUTIFUL!) told me this mag WILL eventually be available. The photo(s) of the polymore gone to steel (VERY nice) told me this mag WILL eventually be available. When? They get done when they get done. A month or a year, it doesn't matter. There is currently nothing available, so whenever they come out, it will have been worth the wait. I am 100% confident they will eventually make it to market, but even if they don't it's no reason to bitch. They at least made an effort. Right now we have nothing, so if they never happen, we still have nothing. No one is out anything, so no reason to sulk. I am more worried about the price. I know how much design time, molds, materials, etc cost. I am just hoping one of the two guys (or even better, both) want to sell more cheaper, than less at a higher price. At $15-20 each, I'll buy a dozen and a half. At $50, I'll buy two. I'de rather have the dozen and a half Quote Link to post Share on other sites
epsylum 0 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Molds are being machined. I don't post every day about it because it's a long process and I don't think you guys care about the day to day BS. I'm more the type of guy who will just post a pic one day of 1000 mags built and ready to ship. My prototype mag has been test fired and went off 10rds in a row without a hitch. If you guys care I'm testing polymer blends right now to find what material I want to use. BTW- I'm way more worried about the shipment of Saiga's getting here in the next couple months. My mags are a sure thing that I have control over, but getting more S-12's into the states seems up in the air. Kevin I hope you will take plastic. I will want a few to say the least. Thanks a lot Z. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 As far an Saiga Solutions is concerned I met the owner and he impressed me so when the mags are ready they will be ready. I'm sure the mag producers have lives, work, other interests. Just wait or buy mags from Oleg, or some other sourse. As for me I will just wait. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Z1500 but he sounds like a man of integerity also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M15A4spr 0 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Molds are being machined. I don't post every day about it because it's a long process and I don't think you guys care about the day to day BS. I'm more the type of guy who will just post a pic one day of 1000 mags built and ready to ship. My prototype mag has been test fired and went off 10rds in a row without a hitch. If you guys care I'm testing polymer blends right now to find what material I want to use. Great news. I didn't mean for my post (or this thread) to be a 'bitch n moan'' about not getting updates. I was just concerned I had over looked the "I give up" thread. Glad to see you're still nose to the grindstone. I look forward to helping ( in a small way [my first order with ya] ) you earn your first million Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) Many of us have only 5 round mags so the question is do we buy 8 round mags from overseas or do we wait on the production of U.S made 10 rounders? I've talked to a number of Saiga 12 owners that are in the same predicament as myself. If they don't come out in the next 2 to 3 month's I will be buying from Rusmilitary. Edited December 19, 2005 by TacticalResponse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I can wait. I still have to send my Saiga to Tony for conversion anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) I'm expecting to have my mags done by the end of January. We take Visa+MC or Discover+AMEX through paypal AGP Turbo is my buisness, we'll be putting up a page to buy the mags from. Pricing on the mags- Mags will be $120/3 right off the bat. If I sell a ton and recoup my investment soon, I'll drop the price. But I'm basing that price on how many I think I'll really sell. Kevin Edited December 20, 2005 by Z1500 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) I'm expecting to have my mags done by the end of January. We take Visa+MC or Discover+AMEX through paypal www.agpturbo.com is my buisness, we'll be putting up a page to buy the mags from. Pricing on the mags- Mags will be $120/3 right off the bat. If I sell a ton and recoup my investment soon, I'll drop the price. But I'm basing that price on how many I think I'll really sell. Kevin Thanks Z1500, Then other members on this forum and myself will not have to order from Rusmiltary. We'll just wait until the end of January and place an order for your mags. Tactical Edited December 20, 2005 by TacticalResponse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PogueMahone 0 Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I'm expecting to have my mags done by the end of January. We take Visa+MC or Discover+AMEX through paypal AGP Turbo is my buisness, we'll be putting up a page to buy the mags from. Pricing on the mags- Mags will be $120/3 right off the bat. If I sell a ton and recoup my investment soon, I'll drop the price. But I'm basing that price on how many I think I'll really sell. Kevin man, any pre-orders? can i call in my card info (don't have or want paypal)? man, i can't wait!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 I'm expecting to have my mags done by the end of January. We take Visa+MC or Discover+AMEX through paypal AGP Turbo is my buisness, we'll be putting up a page to buy the mags from. Pricing on the mags- Mags will be $120/3 right off the bat. If I sell a ton and recoup my investment soon, I'll drop the price. But I'm basing that price on how many I think I'll really sell. Kevin man, any pre-orders? can i call in my card info (don't have or want paypal)? man, i can't wait!!! 10 round polymer mags, right? 40 bucks each is actually a pretty respectable price in today's saiga magazine marketplace. Well the game is now joined... the metal mag guys have a month to roll theirs out before you snatch up the whole market. Has anyone looked into making any stack and a half or double stack mags that sort of bulge out below the magwell? I imagine you could fit 15+ rounds in such a mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Not taking any pre-orders yet. I'll post something up here when we're ready for that. $40ea is a pretty darn fair price I think. It's a small market so I don't think selling thousands of these things is ever gonna happen. It's not like an AR15 mag that you could litterally sell 50,000 units. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacticalResponse 0 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) Not taking any pre-orders yet. I'll post something up here when we're ready for that. $40ea is a pretty darn fair price I think. It's a small market so I don't think selling thousands of these things is ever gonna happen. It's not like an AR15 mag that you could litterally sell 50,000 units. Kevin There are a lot of Saiga owners that don't even know that this forum exist. Your going to have a lot of marketing work to do. When the word gets out, I believe that a good number of owners will purchase your mags. Edited December 21, 2005 by TacticalResponse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Not taking any pre-orders yet. I'll post something up here when we're ready for that. $40ea is a pretty darn fair price I think. It's a small market so I don't think selling thousands of these things is ever gonna happen. It's not like an AR15 mag that you could litterally sell 50,000 units. Kevin There are a lot of Saiga owners that don't even know that this forum exist. Your going to have a lot of marketing work to do. When the word gets out, I believe that a good number of owners will purchase your mags. I'm guessing that higher cap mags, domestically made with no hoops to jump thru or plastic welding to do, will drive shotgun sales up in the competitive market, and that you'll see a corresponding rise in mags. This is because the shotgun gets more competitive vs the speed loader open guns. Mag well (#1) and LRBHO (#2) will complete this evolution. There are a lot of wanabees out there, and the first season a top 10 competitor runs one of these, I'd guess that their will be an incremental sales of 300 -500 shotguns (high end if RAA is providing them, low end if they are used units that are harder to find), and each of these shotties will need 5 mags minimum, many will buy more. This advertising will be free, btw. The buzz that is generated on the competitive boards will be deafening. It will start the first season and as soon as a "top dawg" starts to practice with one. I do this to paint a picture for Ian and Kevin, hopefully one that will drive further Saiga development. But, untill a top dawg makes this work nationally I think the growth will be more normal. I'm not sure that it can be done (beating speed loader users). I mean, I don't think it's a given. This because if a mag fed shotty with LHO and straight insert loads COULD win, I'd expect the USAS12 to already be on the winners podium. I might be wrong because of the following: USAS12 is DD, thus harder to obtain USAS12 is DD and rare, thus more expensive. USAS12 is DD so it may not travel well (banned in some states?). USAS12 is heavy, thus it will shine in a stand and hose stage, but a field course involving a lot of movement /transitions will reduce/eliminate it's advantages. USAS12 is finicky about what it eats USAS12 still requires the mag to be aligned with a mag guide, probably a touch slower than a true magwell would allow. An evolved Saiga will be better than the USAS12, and maybe on equal to better ground than the open class shotguns. Hmmm, this was suppose to be a short post ... sorry to drift. Can you tell what I'm passionate about? I'm expecting to have my mags done by the end of January. We take Visa+MC or Discover+AMEX through paypal AGP Turbo is my buisness, we'll be putting up a page to buy the mags from. Pricing on the mags- Mags will be $120/3 right off the bat. If I sell a ton and recoup my investment soon, I'll drop the price. But I'm basing that price on how many I think I'll really sell. Kevin BTW, forgot to add, KUDO's Kevin for putting this info out there and thank you. This info is PRICELESS! I'm sure you'll be seeing a "group buy" from Richmond, many Saiga owners here, more than post. I'll be talking you (and Ian) up. There are a good number of local shooters I believe to be on the fence regarding Saiga use, this may just be the thing that "converts" them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 My hats off to Kevin and the others for making a domestic product for the Saigas. If we do get more Saigas with any regularity in the future your potential for business volume is huge. The more guys that see converted S-12's and S-20's in action the more that are going to sell. Every owner is going to want a small stash of mags to go with their shotties. Come on Izmash...............we need you to deliver in 2006!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PogueMahone 0 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 $40ea is a pretty darn fair price I think. i think $40 is an outstanding price considering what 5 & 8 rounds mags are going for! that's why i'm ready to get 10 at ANY TIME! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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