JESS1344 508 Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 GUYS, THE COMMENTERS HAVE ARTICULATED OUR POSITION BETTER THAN I COULD. I'LL JUST CUT IT SHORT AND SWEET: FUCK GATES, AND FUCK THIS BROKEDICK, FAGGOT-ASSED, FRANCIS, AND ALL LIKE THEM! SEMPER FIDELIS, JESS1344 Click here: Why Afghanistan Might Be the Marines’ Last Fight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 i have an uncle and granpappy who are marines... ps, why is everytihgn caps and bolded in your posts? hard to read, and always makes me think you are a spam bot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 As a Former Marine I have to say that this has been going on since I began my service in the late 80's. Draw backs, budget crunches, ect... Every Marine has heard the rumor. Will the Marines ever get absorbed into the Army? I doubt it, maybe, but I like to think I won't be around to see it. Amphibious landings are a thing of the past. They just don't make sense any more. Much like the epic European Tank battles envisioned at the height of the cold war, its just not going to happen. Modern warfare is faster, and far more urban that it once was. The days of Jarheads plowing ashore on waves after waves of amtracks are long gone. Of course this is my humble opinion, based on my service as a 0351 (Heavy Weapons Grunt). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) The Marines have capabilities that are unique and unlike its sister services. It will never go away in my opinion. ETA: They have recently conducted beach landings, not in the old school sense, but with amphibious armored vehicles carrying highly trained and motivated trigger pullers. I worked with ANGLICO guys. (Aerial Naval Gunnery Liason Company). They Call For Fire both Air Delivered hatered and that from the boys on the big boats. We still need the Navy, we still need these Marines who enable a lot of what the Navy has to do. You cannot get rid of a capability then wish you had it when shit hits the fan. Look at Airborne operations, many think it is an antiquated capability but it still proves to be the quickest and most efficient way of saturating a target with Warfighters and equipment. It will never go away, it keeps improving, we never got rid of it. Edited July 31, 2013 by MT Predator 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Time will tell. I would hate to see them go but amphib landings are very few and far between. Most of the btln's out there have become special operations capable as is. The Marines are not a standing army or an occulation force. They are and have always been the tip of the spear. Finding them a niche is not easy but the alalternative is far worse. And speaking of niches, anglico fills a very very small niche. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KTM 72 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I cant speak for the Marines but I can throw in my .02 for the Airborne. It has been obsolete since the invention of the helicopter. The 82nd hasn't done a real combat drop since WW2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The Marines will fall to technology just like almost every other job. The writing is on the wall. Technology is much more effecient that humans and humans are all for it. Technology is our best friend right now. But it will very soon (if not already) be our worst enemy. The government is recording our keystrokes. You don't even have to send and e-mail saying you hate the POTUS. Just type it and delete it and they've got it. We're in trouble folks. Every day I wake up and it seems to come from a different direction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 KTM, WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE TO PUT A MASS OF TROOPS ON THE GROUND, QUICKLY, AND THE TARGET AREA IS FAR BEYOND THE REACH OF CHOPPERS? YOU STUFF THEIR ASSES INTO C-130'S, C-141'S AND C-17'S, AND BOOT THEIR ASSES OUT AT THE MINIMUM SAFE ALTITUDE, IMMEDIATELY BEHIND THE FAST MOVERS AND AC-130'S THAT HAVE JUST PRACTICED THEIR BEST DZ SUPPRESSION AND SANITATION ACTIVITIES. FOR ANYONE THAT'S PAYING ATTENTION, THE CHI-COMS ARE ON THE MOVE IN THE FAR EAST, AND IF NOT STOPPED, DECISIVELY, WILL BECOME THE IMPERIAL JAPANESE OF THE 21ST CENTURY. THEY ARE BUILDING A BLUE WATER NAVY AT A BLISTERING PACE, TO INCLUDE NAVY AIR, AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE DECOMMISSIONING SHIPS, HAND OVER FIST. AMONG MANY OTHER LONG TERM GOALS, WORLDWIDE, IS TO ESTABLISH HEGEMONY OVER THEIR NEIGHBORS ON THE ASIAN MAINLAND, AND TO THEN SWEEP ACROSS THE PACIFIC, FOR THEIR VAST OIL AND MINERAL RICHES. THE CURRENT DISPUTES WITH JAPAN AND THE PHILLIPPINES OVER SMALL ISLAND GROUPS ARE JUST THEIR TESTING GROUND, IE, "PROBES WITH THE BAYONET", TO QUOTE LENIN. THE CHI-COMS USE THEIR VAST POPULATION AS A WEAPON, THOUGH IT MAY WEAR MANY DISGUISES. IN SHORT, IT WOULD BEHOOVE EVERYONE TO OBTAIN GENERAL SAMUEL B. GRIFFITH'S (USMC RET.) TRANSLATION OF THE WORKS OF SUN TZU, IE, "THE ART OF WAR", READ IT, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY COMPREHEND IT. ISBN 0-19-501476-6, AND THE BEST, MOST CLEARLY WRITTEN 197 PAGES, ON THE SUBJECT OF WARFARE YOU'LL EVER READ. IF ONE IS SUFFICIENTLY AGILE-MINDED, THE LESSONS THEREIN CAN ALSO BE APPLIED TO ANY OTHER OF LIFE'S SITUATIONS, BUSINESS, MARRIAGE, LOVE, FAMILY, FINANCES, LIMITED ONLY BY ONES IMAGINATION. JUS' SAYIN'............. JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) I cant speak for the Marines but I can throw in my .02 for the Airborne. It has been obsolete since the invention of the helicopter. The 82nd hasn't done a real combat drop since WW2. There have been combat drops done since WW2. The largest heavy drop ever was in Afghanistan. The 82nd had BCTs ready to rig up and drop in Baghdad sitting in Kuwait when Iraqi Freedom kicked off. The battle plan changed due to ground forces fast pace and early arrival there. The 173d jumped into Bashir however. The big thing with rotary wing aircraft is you have to have Forward Aerial Refueling Points set up on the ground to get all the aircraft there unless they are SOCOM assets with refueling probes. Those areas used for FARPs have to be secured first. I believe the 101st had three set up between Kuwait and Baghdad. Those birds drink a lot of fuel when they are sling loading heavy junk. The Airborne, like the Marines is a giant entity and I don't believe either are going away. Both are getting more technologically advanced as well. Edited July 31, 2013 by MT Predator 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 War is going the way of drones and technology that can shove a missile up your ass before it explodes. Need I say more... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 War is going the way of drones and technology that can shove a missile up your ass before it explodes. Need I say more... It isn't working in Afghanistan. Sure they are killing bad guys but boots on the ground kicking down doors and clearing caves is killing more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) The way of the battleship, air power took care of that . Every military is in flux. Men will still be needed to hold the ground. Real victory in war is gone to. Why fight when you cannot win? It's all way different ,strange and I have a big dislike for fighting for every thing but us. Just some things that come into my head. Edited July 31, 2013 by jerry52 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Drones can't think for themselves yet. This is yet another example of someone spewing shit to see if it sticks to the wall. DC is full of it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 GUYS, DRONES AND MISSILES DON'T TAKE AND HOLD GROUND; A PAIR OF BOOTS DO, WITH A BIG SET OF BALLS SWINGING BETWEEN THEM, AND BACKED BY OVERWHELMING FIREPOWER. THE PENTAGON, IN ITS HUBRIS, THOUGHT THE SAME THING AFTER WW II; THAT THE DAYS OF MASSED INFANTRY COMBAT WERE OVER, AND THINGS COULD BE WON WITH AIRPOWER OF VARIOUS KINDS. THEY CALLED IT "PUSH BUTTON WARFARE" BACK THEN, AND HEAVILY RIFF'D THE RANKS OF THE INFANTRY, AND GROUND SUPPORT. TRUMAN DESPISED THE MARINES, AND THEN, AS NOW, THERE WERE CALLS FROM MANY QUARTERS FOR THEIR HEADS TO BE ON THE BLOCK. KOREA ROSE UP TO SMITE THEM MIGHTILY, TO THEIR GREAT CONSTERNATION, LEAVING ONE OF THOSE MARKS THAT "GRANNY'S LYE SOAP WON'T WASH OFF". APPARENTLY, THE CURRENT GENERATION IN WASHINGTON HAS NOT THE CORPORATE MEMORY TO RECALL THE PROVENANCE OF THAT "MARK", AND IS DOOMED TO REPEAT THAT EXERCISE. BELIEVE ME, THERE ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH BAD GUYS OUT THERE WHO WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO TEACH IT TO 'EM. JUS' SAYIN'............. JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjgusmc21 850 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 America doesn't need a Marine Corps, they WANT a Marine Corps. It's that simple. When someone says that something is obsolete, guess what? They need it again. I have heard this over, and over and over...it will not happen. Bring all of your technology you want, but in the end, SOMEONE has to stand on the ground and hold it. Once that's done..then the Army can occupy it. Semper Fi! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 GUYS, HERE'S TWO CURRENT HEADLINES THAT RELATE DIRECTLY TO WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE CHI-COMS, ABOVE. FOR ANYONE THAT HAS A COPY, OR WILL GET ONE, OF SUN TZU'S "ART OF WAR" READ IT AND THEN COMPARE THE PROPOSED CYBERWAR TACTICS OF TODAY WITH THE TACTICAL AND STRATEGIC WARFARE LESSONS LAID DOWN IN SUN TZU'S WORKS. IF YOU ARE SUFFICIENTLY AGILE-MINDED, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE DIRECT CORRELATION. BTW, SUN TZU LIVED AND PRACTICED HIS TRADECRAFT AROUND 2500 B.C. JUS' SAYIN'......... JESS1344 Click here: China Military Preparing for ‘People’s War’ in Cyberspace, Space | Washington Free Beacon Click here: U.S. general: Aggressive Chinese territorial claims carry risks | Washington Free Beacon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Theres always going to be a need for boots on the ground. IIRC, there was talk years ago about the Corps being disbanded. It didnt happen then, and wont now, or anytime soon. The US learned the same lesson in WWII with its sniper program. Everytime something gets dropped, its not long until they realize how valuable it really is. Complete skynet type shit is still a few years out. Drones are moving rapidly tech wise, but they're still only as smart as the fuckers programming them, and I would prefer they keep it that way, but when that changes, then thats a whole nother shit mess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Ok, this topic has gone a little off track. I'm not doubting the wisdom of Sun Tzu. What I'm am saying is the last large scale amphibious assault landing was conducted during the Korean Conflict. There have been a few others but they were extremely small scale. When was the last time you saw saturation airborne operations? The only Airborne divisions we have left are the 82nd and the 173rd. The rest are air assault. Technology is our friend folks in many cases. My son is getting deployed again to the Stan. I've had the misfortune to have been there twice and now it looks like he is following suit. Never send a man where a bullet or in this case a drone can go. The drone can be replaced, the man can not. Some of you have made a great point that machines can not occupy ground, it requires boots on the ground for that. True, but the Marines were never meant to be an occupation/static force. They get a mission, they go in and the do it, and then they leave. Gone are the days of massive amphib operations. We can just as easily deliver our Marines, or Army, or spec ops via V-22s which have an operational range of 1k miles. And can be refueled in mid flight as well. I don't know why folks are dredging up visions of massive CHI-COM infantry assault waves. The last time you saw them was when? Korea.....Are the Chinese rapidly expanding? Yes, they are hitting they're industrial boom and its the natural progression. Are they a navel super power ? No, not yet. Could they become one. Sure its possible. The Soviet Union at one time sported a massive navy. If you really want to look at the Chinese expansion then look at what they are doing in Africa. That is some serious business there. Are they doing it militarily? No. They are building civilian infrastructure. They have undertaken massive projects or funded massive projects there. That in itself is alarming, but perfectly natural for the state they are in. Lastly, there has been a lot of discussion in the past 15 or so years for a unified army. Meshing the Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force into one force. Does it sound crazy? Maybe, it has its pluses and minuses. The Marines will always have a place in my heart. Its where I started my military career. Times change, and with it our military has to change as well. What the future holds, I can't tell, I am not gifted with the ability to foresee the future. But I am fairly certain we won't ever see the madness of massive infantry wars. Technology has rendered that horror obsolete. Edited July 31, 2013 by breid Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Technology has rendered that horror obsolete. Technology can be rendered useless quickly. I might be old and dumb, but I would prefer to keep them separate. The mindsets for each are unique. Force them all into one and you will lose abilities you may need in the future. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sccritterkiller 473 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) There will always be something that absolutely positively has to be destroyed overnight.....We will always need the Marines. Regardless of what some bean counter in DC says..... Edited July 31, 2013 by sccritterkiller 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 We can just as easily deliver our Marines, or Army, or spec ops via V-22s which have an operational range of 1k miles. And can be refueled in mid flight as well. You can deliver SOME troops via the Osprey. There are not enough CV/MV-22s in the inventory to deliver a Division sized element at once. They are like a 15 passenger van on the inside and we don't have a whole lot of them. They are meant to deliver small SOCOM elements on target faster than their Rotary Wing counterparts can. The battlefield is fluid, shit happens. Like I said, the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) was poised to swoop into Baghdad and take it when it kicked off. The Armor and Mech Infantry met little resistance and made it there before FARPs could be set up to support the Sceaming Eagle's operation. Even with the metric shit tons of Rotary Wing aircraft they have, there are limitations such as fuel consumption. They can't refuel in the air like the cool kids can. As far as Airborne Ops go, it's not going away. It is still the most efficient way to put boots with guns on the ground fast. I've participated in Joint Forced Entry Exercises with the 82nd. It is a sight to be seen when you have dozens of C-17s and C-130s dropping a Division at once including cargo and vehicles. They will never give up that capabilty I assure you. All of our Military's capabilities have a place and time. You cannot get rid of a capability and then try to respawn it when needed at the last moment. I do agree with the Navy parking Battleships and similar boats. Airpower and guided weaponry better than the old guns have taken over. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjgusmc21 850 Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Remember, nothing is obsolete until it can't kill any longer. Technology is great, as it helps to save life's and protect life's, however, let's not forget how quickly shit goes south when there is no electricity. Same applies for all of our electronic greatness. Airborne, amphibious assaults, etc.,etc. When you get rid of them, IS EXACTLY when you will need them again. There is something to be said for the 'pucker factor'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Im not saying shelve the Airborne, I never said that. I said that disbanding the Marine Corps has been on the political agenda for a long time. Its not new, it just happens to creep up now and then. Nor did i say that we should get rid of Airborne. I just made the point that we have not had a large scale airborne combat drop in a long long time. The military is evolving is my main point. . We are moving towards a smaller more technologically advanced force. Whether thats good or bad will remain to be seen. I have nothing against airborne drops. But being a vet myself one of the realizations is that if your going to drop a battalion on the ground you better damn well have control of the sky's so that said battalion can get resupplied. Nothing, and I mean nothing says suck like not knowing when your 3 B's are coming or not coming. If we are ever in a large scale conflict with the Chinese, and I pray we never are, then all bets are off. They have a huge military which is only getting more proficient as time goes by. It wont be like it was during either gulf war where we have technological superiority . Right now the chinese field the Type-99 which is a modern very well equipped MBT. Late next year they are slotted to come out with the MBT-3000. We can not remain static, we have to change, get faster and better at what we do is all I'm saying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Quick not so trivial trivia from and ex USAF/USA guy. What branch of service conducted the largest most successful amphibious landing in history? Hooah! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted August 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 RHODES, D-DAY, JUNE 6TH,1944, U.S HOOAH-FRIGGIN' ARMY! SEMPER FIDELIS, JESS1344;~)) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Point being that isnt the reason to keep the Marine Corp. The reason is to create a bunch of disciplined bad asses from maggots. Besides if DC doesn't want them Im sure Texas would take em. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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