high capacity magazines = failure? +leaving them loaded?

[jared3390 7]

do you guys believe that the higher the capacity of a magazine is, the higher the chance it will malfunction?

 

my brother swears by that and wont use anything for his ar15 except 30 and below, wont touch a 40 rounder

 

and when i recently got my ak47, i got couple 40 rounders and a 75 round drum and it seems to work fine, no problems yet.

 

 

 

 

also whats your opinion on leaving your magazine loaded? i mean i dont really see the problem unless it was like a 60 rounder or more?

[Arik 565]

I dont bother with anything over 30 rounds cause they're more of a novelty. Very few are real surplus and are usually pricy. The rest I refuse to pay to find out how reliable/un reliable they are. Besides Im not gonna be surpressing fire any time soon. However, if its a good surplus mag it should be fine. 

[Remek 771]

You will inherently have the same failure rate for any size magazine if the failure is not due to the magazine.  Because of that, it would always appear that failures/magazine are higher for larger magazine capacity, because you run through more rounds with them.

 

If your brother is experiencing something wrong with above-30rd mags, its probably not the magazine.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

A lot of very high-capacity mags are made cheaply - Thermold 48-round AK mags are pretty crappy. They're fun range toys, but they're pretty unreliable. I have a few surplus 40-round AK mags, the ones issued with RPK variants - and I haven't had problems with them. The Russian/Romanian 75-round AK drums work like a charm for me - literally never had a malfunction with one. I've never played with one of those Surefire quadstack mags, but I saw one loaded and dumped a few times through a select-fire rifle at the local indoor range last summer, and it worked flawlessly. I've heard mixed reviews.

As for leaving your mags loaded - if you have a good quality spring, it isn't a problem. Long-term compression (within its intended range of movement) should not wear out a spring. Duty cycles wear out good springs. As you load and empty a magazine, the spring will gradually wear out. That said, most magazine springs will never wear out. It takes many thousands of rounds before your recoil spring wears out enough to affect reliability on an AK rifle - why should a magazine spring be any different? Shitty springs will wear out under compression. I had one factory 33-round Glock magazine that had a spring fail when it was left loaded for a long period of time. The other two magazines were fine. I replaced the spring, and haven't had any problems. I now load those mags to only 30 rounds, just in case it makes a difference.

[DogMan 2,343]

If you are using high quality mags then theoretically capacity won't matter, otherwise they aren't high quality. That being said, since 30 rounders are the standard it is a lot easier to have more confidence in that particular size mag simply because a certain manufacturer's reputation and track record was probably built overwhelmingly on 30 rounders just by the sheer numbers of them used.

[menace667 194]

I wish i still had access to it, but i read a very detailed article some time ago specifically about springs and their ability to maintain tension. It essentially said as long as you do all or none you are fine. It is when you apply any amount of pressure other than that for long periods, or over and over, that you essentially train the spring to not function right and create a higher risk for malfunction.

 

I am no spring expert and can not testify to this info being correct, but does seem logical.

 

As far as capacity goes, i do not believe that greater capacity means a higher chance of failure. The 30 round AR magazines work just as well as the five rounders depending on the manufacturer, which is my thoughts on the issue. Nordic components makes an AR magazine extension, though not cheap, makes standard pmags 48 rounds and are supposed to be very reliable. The manufacturer's quality will have an exponentially higher impact on the chance of failure than does capacity. Glock magazines are another perfect example. There are high capacity OEM mags that everyone loves for Glock pistols, and there are much cheaper and much less reliable knockoff brands. It seems a scenario of getting what you pay for and not capacity.

[mancat 2,368]

"Extra capacity" mags? Some are better than others. Some have seen real world military use/issue, some haven't. An example of that is the 40-round AK mags and 75-round steel drums, both standard-issue items for the RPK.

 

40 round AR mags? Box mags are hard to screw up. Even the Galil used 50-round straight box mags, and Galil mags are basically just steel AR mags modified to use the AK lockup mechanism. Theoretically you could take the same design and make an AR mag of it, but they're ridiculously long unless you quad-stack them.

 

Spring steel indeed wears out primarily by repeated expansion/compression cycles - but, you know, that's literally hundreds of thousands of cycles. I have a lot of surplus mags, and the only ones I've had where the springs were screwed up were Galil mags - it looked like they had been disassembled for cleaning too many times by someone who couldn't figure out how to put the mag back together again without stepping on the spring.

[storm6490 2,768]

do you guys believe that the higher the capacity of a magazine is, the higher the chance it will malfunction?

 

my brother swears by that and wont use anything for his ar15 except 30 and below, wont touch a 40 rounder

 

and when i recently got my ak47, i got couple 40 rounders and a 75 round drum and it seems to work fine, no problems yet.

 

 

 

 

also whats your opinion on leaving your magazine loaded? i mean i dont really see the problem unless it was like a 60 rounder or more?

Jared, not sure where your brother got that Idea but it is a safe bet considering most magazines that hold more than 30 rounds on an ar platform are poorly made. If you want more capacity than 30 try this one out. http://www.surefire.com/mag5-60.html It will work better than any of the magazines your brother owns unless he has some old colt 20 round tanker mags.

 

The real benefit of using the tanker magazine is getting real low to the ground in the prone position when rag heads are shooting back at you. If you try to shoot a 30 round magazine in the prone, the magazine forces you to be up an inch or so higher than the 30. You have a bigger profile and you open up your chest. The 20 is also less likely to snag on stuff and that is why they issued it to people who were stuck in vehicles.

 

The surefire has a wider profile than a regular but is the same length so it doesn't donkey dick like the cheap higher capacity magazines. It also has very nice wear points that have copper wear points that will blend in with your rifle over time.

 

As far as keeping your magazines loaded, it depends on the quality of your magazine. I keep all of my magazines loaded. I did this since I was 17 and uncle sam gave me all the gear I wanted. Our issued magazines never failed because they were always loaded. Hell, I was always loaded. After I got out, I kept all my consumer magazines loaded. Never had a problem with them and they stay unused a lot longer than the service mags.

 

It's spring steel and would need heat, not just pressure to loose it's spring.

 

Your AK magazines are most likely military issued surplus arsenal magazines. Maybe even the drum. They will not fail from being loaded all the time. If you were to buy some generic or cheaply made novelty magazine of an unknown quality, it could be cheap springs that would deform over time. The lips would probably wear out before the cheap ass springs.

 

Good luck shooting and remember, nothing your brother knows about the AR applies in any way to your AK other than they both shoot bullets down range!

 

Fix Bayonets!

[Jpanzer 1,265]

Got two 45 round AK 74 mags, one Bulgy Circle 10 and the other Russian bakelite. Both run like champs.

 

I leave ALL my mags loaded, for my AK's, S12, and FAL, and have yet to experience ANY malfunction on a mil spec or surplus mag.

 

It's the off brand or cheapo mags that usually cause problems, and it doesn't matter if you keep those loaded or not as they will give you issues regardless...

[Spartacus 1,619]

I'm not having any problems with S-12 double stack mags.

 

[jared3390 7]

thanks for your input guys

[sparky63 46]

I'm not having any problems with S-12 double s

 

I'm not having any problems with S-12 double stack mags.

 

?       not aware of those.

 

[jerry52 893]

Anything over 30 rounds is just extra drag ,love my 10 rounders (just saying)

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

The Russian/Romanian 75-round AK drums work like a charm for me - literally never had a malfunction with one.

 

As for leaving your mags loaded - if you have a good quality spring, it isn't a problem. Long-term compression (within its intended range of movement) should not wear out a spring.

 

1 - That's exactly right in an AK platform. If you want more than 30, get a drum. My two drums run dandy and I leave one of them loaded at all times without the spring tensioned. They do weigh a TON though.

 

2 - That's the rub... Without having a clear magazine I have no idea how close the spring is to coil bind and without testing each spring its impossible to know where it passes into plastic deformation over time. Generally speaking, I agree with your point that most mag springs will live a LONG healthy life, but they do wear out. I have some surplus Yugo mags that just barely feed the air inside them. Their rate is remarkably less than that of a new magazine.

 

I wish i still had access to it, but i read a very detailed article some time ago specifically about springs and their ability to maintain tension. It essentially said as long as you do all or none you are fine. It is when you apply any amount of pressure other than that for long periods, or over and over, that you essentially train the spring to not function right and create a higher risk for malfunction.

 

 

I wish you still had access to it as well, because my first response is "poppy-cock"... It's true that materials develop a memory (that's the entire reason why springs work) but loading it LESS than its maximum rate shouldn't impact it's service life at all. If that were true every vehicle on the road should be loaded to GVWR all the time to keep the springs from degrading. Generally, it's the constant compression or cycling that will kill a spring.

 

All of that said, springs aren't the only thing to consider in keeping your mags loaded. Case in point, my Glock magazine, despite their cost, are some of the cheapest "factory" mags of any gun I've handled (which isn't hundreds, but dozens). When I load my 13 round G-21 mags to 13, there is noticeable deflection in the plastic base plate. When I load them to 11 rounds, that deflection is remarkably less. In the case of the shitty Glock mags (flame away if you like, I own 14 of them so I'm as big of a believer in their shitty mags as you'll ever find), I bought a dozen 13rd mags,  load 1 to 11 rounds each month, and cycle through them monthly. My G-21 is a home defense piece at the moment, I don't carry it, and it's 20 feet from my safe... If 11 rounds can't get me to my safe, then I guess I'm cooked!

[nlacy 692]

I had this same idea way back with my brother's 10/22 when we were kids.  The 10 round mags were super reliable, 30 pretty good and 50 jammed all the time.  But I think it really does come back to the quality of the mag more than anything else.  There are some crappy 40 rd ar mags, but I think I'll pick up some 40 rd pmags one of these days.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I had this same idea way back with my brother's 10/22 when we were kids.  The 10 round mags were super reliable, 30 pretty good and 50 jammed all the time.  But I think it really does come back to the quality of the mag more than anything else.  There are some crappy 40 rd ar mags, but I think I'll pick up some 40 rd pmags one of these days.

EVERY 50-round box mag I've seen for the 10/22 has been a piece of junk. The 25-round mags tend to be single-stack mags (and the double-stack mags jam constantly). The 50-rounders that I've handled have all been double-stack, and even if they're loaded very carefully and correctly, they still fail to feed. I had one of those ridiculous gatling gun setups that use two Ruger 10/22s, for a little while - the only mags that would run reliably were factory 10-rounders and 50-round drums. Now that there are 110-round drums out there, I wish I hadn't gotten rid of the thing.

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

 

I had this same idea way back with my brother's 10/22 when we were kids.  The 10 round mags were super reliable, 30 pretty good and 50 jammed all the time.  But I think it really does come back to the quality of the mag more than anything else.  There are some crappy 40 rd ar mags, but I think I'll pick up some 40 rd pmags one of these days.

EVERY 50-round box mag I've seen for the 10/22 has been a piece of junk. The 25-round mags tend to be single-stack mags (and the double-stack mags jam constantly). The 50-rounders that I've handled have all been double-stack, and even if they're loaded very carefully and correctly, they still fail to feed. I had one of those ridiculous gatling gun setups that use two Ruger 10/22s, for a little while - the only mags that would run reliably were factory 10-rounders and 50-round drums. Now that there are 110-round drums out there, I wish I hadn't gotten rid of the thing.

 

 

Good info to know since I've ALWAYS wanted one of those rigs! I can't deal with the price though.. I'll probably build my own.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

I got pretty lucky, picked mine up, with the rifles already installed in the kit, for less than $600.

[mostholycerebus 415]

Statistically...

 

Magazine errors mainly occur when magazines are changed. You can fire 120 rounds with 2x40round mag changes, or 3x30round magazine changes, a 50% increase in the failure window.

 

Soldiers are trained to take advantage of 'lulls' in combat by moving up and repositioning. These 'lulls' take place during opposition mag changes. By using 30 round mags instead of 40 round mags, you give the opposition a 50% increase in time they can safely move on your position. In addition, assuming a fairly even-sided exchange of fire, with a 40 round magazine YOU can take advantage of the enemy reloading by holding a loaded weapon while they dont.

 

Less magazines also means less weight carried, which means more ammo CAN be carried.

 

So, unless you are in a spot where maneuvering, or expense, are paramount, ideally you want the largest capacity reliable magazine you can carry.

 

Personally, I like a 20 in the gun, and a few 40's on the hip, but my goal is always to run away to the best of my ability.

Edited October 30, 2013 by mostholycerebus

[BpS12 512]

I keep most of mine loaded, S12 and RPK. No issues. We had a discussion a year or so ago about the reliability of drums. From what I gathered, they work better in semis than full autos. Seems much of the time, enemy RPK(full auto) gunners were killed trying to clear a jammed weapon. Most semi auto drum shooters seem to have little to no issues. I have one 75rnd surplus drum(top load) and have had no issues with it.

 

30rnders are the most convenient. Easy to find, easy to fit pouches for, and doesn't raise the profile overly so. 5s,10s and 20s offer the lower profiles but less round counts. 40s and drums offer higher round counts but greater length/bulk/weight so tend to be used in static positions.

 

I prefer a 20 L&L'd with two 10s(modified 5s) stored on the butt. I'm set up on a PC to carry up to a dozen 30s, two 40s and a 75 rnd drum. You know, for Zombies, lol.

 

I've got a chest rig for the S12 set up to carry four 5s, two 8s, six 10s, a 12rnd drum and a pouch for single rounds. Again, for Zombies, lol.

 

Have fun "testing" the reliability of your mags. ;-)c