Best .223/5.56 for general use?

[thebuns1 4,323]

For those of us that have it, what ammo are you guys turning to for an overall general load? Lately Ive been finding myself buying up more of the 55gr. M193 5.56 loads. I know theres better loads out there, but the price is too good in my area to turn it down. Im normally a heavy for caliber shooter.

 

Ive been loving the results of the 77gr. SMK's, but the availability and price is keeping me from buying everything I see. I also am a fan of the Hornady 75gr. BTHP loaded with the superformance powders.

 

For a general round, I do like the 55gr. M193 and the M855's, but Ive since settled for a good balance of the 62gr. Hornady JSP TAP rds. I dont really like to have a certain load for every type of scenario that one may encounter, so Ive been looking for a good balance, and so far Ive found it in the Hornady JSP 62gr.

 

So my question is, what loads are you guys using to give you the best balance? In balance, I mean defeating barriers, weight retention and accuracy. I appreciate the feedback.

 

FWIW I havent been able to secure very much of the MK262 or MK318 ammo. I only have very little of it and havent gotten around to testing it as of yet.

 

What say you?

Edited March 9, 2014 by Captain Hero

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

For general use I shoot a lot of 55 grn since I reload. I find it be a good all around load. For best past 100 yards accuracy I use 75 grn. In my guns I see no differnce in 55 grn and 62 grn for accuracy. As far as barrier penetration I go with 7.62x39 over 5.56 hard to beat 123 grn for barrier penetration with out breaking the bank.

[thebuns1 4,323]

I agree with using x39 for barriers, Im just trying to set up my woman with an ideal setup for 5.56 in my AR since thats what she prefers. Ive also seen in my own testing, many of the cheaper loads in x39 suffering from jacket seperation in many tests. So Im basically looking opinions for the overall best load for that caliber should the need arise for her.

[YOT 3,743]

I roll my own. Preference to extremely accurate soft point of hollow point.

[Big John! 2,062]

I shoot whatever is affordable.  I keep mags of 55 grn. and 62 grn. green tips around to keep the peace.  But I also have several AK mags loaded but we ain't talking bout 7.62.  When I go to the range, it's almost exclusively 55 grn. whatever.  Unless I want to shoot through steel, then I'll break out the green tips.

[nlacy 692]

For plinking, and general shooting I like the 55 gr.  Not too expensive, easy to find and lots of options.  But if SHTF I'd load up with 62 gr green tips.  Slightly more expensive, but I think worth it.

 

I haven't gotten any 77 gr. because, as you said price and availability are two big drawbacks. 

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

55 gr. from SGammo, cheap and works well at 100 yards. Would suggest you have some the good stuff for when it needs to count

[sccritterkiller 473]

I use the 55gr green tips...I have two different barreled ARs...1x9 and 1x7 and the 55 gr works well out of both. I use the 1x9 for yotes as the lighter ballistic tips rounds are a little more accurate out of 1x9. If I want penetrate barriers I get out the AR-10. 

[thebuns1 4,323]

Thanks for the feedback fellas

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

My wife likes shooting 5.56 the best. I give my wife 55 grn to shoot 99% of the time. Hits where she's aiming and recoil is easily managed. Bullet placement is key for any shooter and firearm to be effective as you well know. Military has been using 55 grn and 62 grn with good effect for years.

[Ronin38 2,117]

I don't know any Generals that use a .223... 

[YOT 3,743]

I don't know any Generals that use a .223... 

 

 

How many Generals do you know?

 

 

 

 

 

Ronin, I say that jokingly. It is not at all improbable that you know any Generals. I knew this man very well. We belonged to the same Masonic Temple and cooked many, many benefit dinners together. He was a stellar man and a great inspiration.

 

http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/105086/brigadier-general-edwin-l-little.aspx

 

BRIGADIER GENERAL EDWIN L. LITTLE

Retired   August 01,1970     Died  November 27,2004

 

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Brigadier General Edwin L. Little is vice commander of the Sacramento Air Materiel Area at McClellan Air Force Base, Calif. 

 

General Little was born in 1918, in North Poultney, Vt., graduated from high school in Fair Haven, Vt., in 1936, and attended the University of Maryland for two years. He entered active military duty in March 1942 as an aviation cadet and graduated in March 1943 with a commission as second lieutenant and his pilot wings. 

 

During World War II he went overseas in May 1943 and served in the European Theater of Operations as a B-17 aircraft pilot with the 305th Bombardment Group. He returned to the United States in May 1944 and went to Gulfport, Miss., where he served with the 328th Army Air Field Base Unit as pilot-instructor, operations and training officer, and commanding officer. 

 

From November 1946 to December 1948 he served at Pope Field, N.C., Sherman Air Force Base, Kan., and Great Falls Air Force Base, Mont. In December 1948 he was transferred to the U.S. Air Forces in Europe where he served as pilot, operations officer, and squadron executive officer for the 513th Tactical Control Group. He later was a group supply officer and squadron commander. He is credited with service in the Berlin Airlift. 

 

He returned to the United States in January 1952 and was assigned to the office of the Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C., where he served in the Office for Atomic Energy, and in 1956 he became Deputy Chief of the Materiel Division, 1009th Special Weapons Squadron, In August 1958 he entered the Air War College, Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala. 

 

General Little became director of supply and services for the Alaskan Air Command at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska, in July 1959, and in December 1959 was named deputy chief of staff, materiel. 

 

In August 1963 General Little was assigned to the Middletown Air Materiel Area, Olmsted Air Force Base, Pa., as deputy chief of plans and management. He became commander of the 2802nd Inertial Guidance and Calibration Group at Newark Air Force Station, Ohio, in July 1966. 

 

General Little assumed duties as vice commander of the Sacramento Air Materiel Area, McClellan Air Force Base, Calif., in August 1969. 

 

His military decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross, Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster, Air Medal with three oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal, Distinguished Unit Citation Emblem, Air Force Outstanding Unit Award Ribbon with oak leaf cluster, and Small Arms Expert Marksman Ribbon. He is a command pilot. 

 

He was promoted to the temporary grade of brigadier general effective July 13, 1968, with date of rank June 8, 1968. 

 

(Current as of March 1, 1970)

 

http://vermonthistory.org/documents/findaid/LittleEdwin.pdf

 

General Edwin L. Little (1918 – 2004) 

Papers, 1933-1989 

 MSA 332-333 

Introduction 

 

 The collection holds papers and photographs documenting the military service of 

Brigadier General Edwin L. Little (1933-2004) of Poultney and Fair Haven, Vermont. The 

collection includes several different types of Air Force documents and records from 1942 

through 1970 as well as information on Little’s aircraft and some of his duty stations and units. 

The collection also includes details of a project Little directed to erect several monuments in the 

Fair Haven Veterans Memorial Park. The collection was given to the Vermont Historical 

Society by General Little in 2003 (ms. acc. no. 2003.7); additional materials were added to the 

collection by Little’s son Brad in 2005. The collection is stored in two flip top archival boxes, 

about nine linear inches of shelf space; it also includes one magnetic reel-to-reel audio tape. 

 

Biographical Note 

 

 Edwin Loren Little was born in North Poultney, Vermont, on October 24, 1918, son of 

Charles and Jessie (Streeter) Little. Early in his life, at age 10, Little came to the rescue of a 

downed flyer in need of water. His assistance earned him a brief ride in the aircraft and turned 

young Little’s mind towards flying. At another time, Little persuaded his mother to take in a 

young pilot as a boarder in exchange for flying lessons for Edwin. These incidents changed his 

life forever and he went on a quest to become a pilot himself. 

 

Little began his military career in the early days of World War II when he earned his 

pilot’s wings and flew 25 bombing mission over Europe. He continued in this career after the 

war, received a commission in the regular Army, and entered the US Air Force at its inception. 

His duties took him to several locations in the US and Europe. While on assignment in 

Germany, Little flew missions during the Berlin airlift. He rose from pilot to squadron leader 

and up through group commander, mostly in supply and logistics units. General Little retired 

from the service in 1970 and passed away in 2004. 

 

 See Folder 0 for extensive additional information about Little’s life and military career. 

 

Scope and Content 

 

 General Little saved many records from his service to his nation. His files contain the 

entire history of his time spent in the various aircraft he flew, from training during World War II 

to his final hours in 1966. After his bombing missions over Europe, Little returned to the states 

and became an instructor, teaching others to fly with and without instruments. Other records 

trace his assignments and his advancement along a professional military career path. After the 

war, Little participated in the Berlin airlift. He entered the world of supply and logistics and 

followed that path to the rank of brigadier general. The collection also has some insights into the 

life of a commanding officer. At the end of his military career, he lent his knowledge and talents 

to designing, procuring, constructing, and dedicating a veterans memorial park in Fair Haven, 

VT.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Yeoldetool

[thebuns1 4,323]

I don't know any Generals that use a .223... 

[storm6490 2,768]

if you run a nato h bar and not a .223 stamped barrel, this is the shit. cheap and accurate.

 

chapter 10-3 will have the field data for you here. https://www.ar15.com/content/webPDF/TM43-0001-27.pdf

 

federal sells surplus of this as XM-193 i think you will like it. I shot millions of rounds of this stuff at no cost to me at fort benning.

 

see how it shoots in your setup. I used it on my personal competition match hbar colt and on an issued colt A2 Hbar. Both were tack drivers. they were great rifles for target shooting at distance with open sights. never shot 5.56 scoped. didn't need it anyway. your vision failed right at the max eff.range anyway.

 

My buddy uses it in his savage bolt action rifle and it performs better than any other factory or surplus ammo all while killing coyotes like a slaughter house.

 

i see you already shoot it so you have your answer already!

Edited March 9, 2014 by Stryker0946

[thebuns1 4,323]

Thanks for the reply stryker. I do like the ammo, and I can find it cheap in my area. Ive shot a lot of it too in the past life, but am looking into other options at the moment. For some reason Im on a JSP kick recently.

[storm6490 2,768]

Thanks for the reply stryker. I do like the ammo, and I can find it cheap in my area. Ive shot a lot of it too in the past life, but am looking into other options at the moment. For some reason Im on a JSP kick recently.

if you like a jacketed soft point at that speed, try some of this stuff. it's interesting to say the least. http://www.rbcd.net/Products/Ammunition/

[Ronin38 2,117]

I don't know any Generals that use a .223... 

 

How many Generals do you know?

 

 

Ronin, I say that jokingly. It is not at all improbable that you know any Generals. I knew this man very well. We belonged to the same Masonic Temple and cooked many, many benefit dinners together. He was a stellar man and a great inspiration.

 

http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/105086/brigadier-general-edwin-l-little.aspx

 

BRIGADIER GENERAL EDWIN L. LITTLE

Retired   August 01,1970     Died  November 27,2004

 

 

Very cool you knew the Brigadier General Little! 

 

I don't know any Generals personally, but I do know quite a few former Military members from various branches, just lower pay-grades. 

 

The most "high up" person I know (pun intended...) is my cousin, Dr. Joe Allen, Mission Specialist, NASA (Ret.) He was up on the Shuttle twice.

Joe's partner on his first flight, Dale Gardner recently passed away, this article talks about their mission together:

http://english.netmassimo.com/2014/02/22/r-i-p-dale-gardner/

[semper299 284]

I load the 55 grain Hornady spire point. They are pretty cheap at about 95 per thousand, and shoot well out of my rifles. I load them pretty hot, getting about 3k ft per sec

[Capt Nemo 882]

M193 55 grain FMJ or JSP with the old A1 twist here.  I don't have a barrel for green tip.

[IndyArms 10,186]

So... just out of curiosity... Can we define " barrier" as used in this thread? and how often do said barriers arise needing penetration????

[thebuns1 4,323]

So... just out of curiosity... Can we define " barrier" as used in this thread? and how often do said barriers arise needing penetration????

Anything fairly light. Car doors, thinner walls, etc. Im just looking for other options so I dont end up with 3 or 4 types of ammo. The only thing Im really picking up on is the 55gr. ball and 62gr. JSP. Many types of ammo suffer from jacket separation and terminal performance in soft tissue after they make contact with objects prior. Im looking to maximize my investment in my ammunition purchases, within reason.

[IndyArms 10,186]

I figure projectiles need to penetrate auto doors, vests, then anything beyond THAT... LOL

[thebuns1 4,323]

I figure projectiles need to penetrate auto doors, vests, then anything beyond THAT... LOL

Lol. Yeah they do need to, but some loads perform better after encountering cover than others.

[Capt Nemo 882]

With 55 gr, I shot up a old chevy being used as a target for LAW subcalibers.  The door was still good so I punched a few through it.  The JSP's emerged going sideways as did FMJ.  I also saw the same with deer.  The post wardens always wondered what I hit it with as the exit wounds looked like I stabbed it with a knife.  Even saw 2 ribs, one with a V notch from the tip, and a square notch from the tail on the other.  The JSP's don't seem to expand a bit unless you hit something really solid.  Those rounds on deer would leave really good blood trails out to 100 yds, and after that they start doing the .22 in/.22 out bit, and then you need tracking snow.   Since neither seem to expand, JSP is as good as FMJ, but use the JSP for hunting to keep the warden happy.

[YOT 3,743]

With 55 gr, I shot up a old chevy being used as a target for LAW subcalibers.  The door was still good so I punched a few through it.  The JSP's emerged going sideways as did FMJ.  I also saw the same with deer.  The post wardens always wondered what I hit it with as the exit wounds looked like I stabbed it with a knife.  Even saw 2 ribs, one with a V notch from the tip, and a square notch from the tail on the other.  The JSP's don't seem to expand a bit unless you hit something really solid.  Those rounds on deer would leave really good blood trails out to 100 yds, and after that they start doing the .22 in/.22 out bit, and then you need tracking snow.   Since neither seem to expand, JSP is as good as FMJ, but use the JSP for hunting to keep the warden happy.

 

 

I have not noted the same. The JSP Varmint Nightmare expand incredibly on everything down to squirrel sized animals. At least the wound would indicate so, as I have NOT recovered a single bullet, except from the bank after shooting frozen milk jugs.

[sccritterkiller 473]

With 55 gr, I shot up a old chevy being used as a target for LAW subcalibers. The door was still good so I punched a few through it. The JSP's emerged going sideways as did FMJ. I also saw the same with deer. The post wardens always wondered what I hit it with as the exit wounds looked like I stabbed it with a knife. Even saw 2 ribs, one with a V notch from the tip, and a square notch from the tail on the other. The JSP's don't seem to expand a bit unless you hit something really solid. Those rounds on deer would leave really good blood trails out to 100 yds, and after that they start doing the .22 in/.22 out bit, and then you need tracking snow. Since neither seem to expand, JSP is as good as FMJ, but use the JSP for hunting to keep the warden happy.

This is why I stwiched to a 6.8 for hunting table fare, 110 grain SP rds. The recoil is about the same. My 8 yr old son killed his first deer last year with a 6.8. Plus I have targets of opportunity were I hunt, hogs. We have shot piggies over 300#..I have seen them shot with 30-06 under 50 yards with no exit wound. IMO deer that run more than a hundred yards after the shot dont taste as good as the meat is filled with endorphins..leaves the "gamey taste". Plus I dont want to take the chance of looseing the animal. I love the 556 for yotes...I usually dont retrieve them after the shot anyway..

Edited March 13, 2014 by sccritterkiller