TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Here's pic shot of a customer's gun that had some work done by a previously well known Saiga converter. There is a nut on the back side of that machine screw holding the trigger guard in place. http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=372635 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo 26 2 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Here's pic shot of a customer's gun that had some work done by a previously well known Saiga converter.There is a nut on the back side of that machine screw holding the trigger guard in place. http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=372635 Damn...that's Ghetto as hell...poor S-12....what did he do to her?!?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PogueMahone 0 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 is that a growing sideline, doing cosmetic work on other conversions (if not outright repairs)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Wow, nice PG hole too! I use the screw/nut method myself for my stuff, but I'm not getting paid to do it. Maybe I could go into the business and under-cut him by a few hundred and include one of your business cards with it. If I had a TIG I'd be welding that and the holes in the back of the receiver too. I have a ton of projects I could do with one, but the $200 harbor freight model is all I could afford. Dunno if it's worth messing with. At least the S-12 is in good hands now! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Normally they don't come in for "repair". They simply come in to get additional work done. But once I am in there and find that kind of stuff, I will usually just go ahead and weld all the shit back up and redo it. I'll shoot a pic of the gun after it's been fixed. It will be a bit different inside though, since this gun came in for a BHO install. Since the guy is running a SAW grip anyway, I will probably weld the square hole up completely and TiG a threaded hanger in place. You can't see it in the pic, but there is a bunch of dried epoxy adhesive all gooped up in there as well. I will have to chip all that shit out.............. There is nothing wrong with doing it this way as a do-it-yourself project, but coming from a professional builder..........that's just not right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I learned something from a long career as a trim carpenter and cabinetmaker. It usually takes more time in the long run to do a hack job on something as it does to do it correctly. It takes just as long to take a "quick" halfass measurement and make the wrong cut as it does to take an accurate measurement and make an exact cut that you know will fit. If you don't care enough to spend an extra second or two on each thing you cut to fit it will take twice as long to finish the job because you will have to recut and fit some things. "Measure twice, cut once"! If you are charging someone for "professional" work on anything it is your responsibilty to do the best job possible with what you have to work with. A little extra effort goes a long way in business. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Normally they don't come in for "repair". They simply come in to get additional work done. But once I am in there and find that kind of stuff, I will usually just go ahead and weld all the shit back up and redo it. I'll shoot a pic of the gun after it's been fixed. It will be a bit different inside though, since this gun came in for a BHO install. Since the guy is running a SAW grip anyway, I will probably weld the square hole up completely and TiG a threaded hanger in place. You can't see it in the pic, but there is a bunch of dried epoxy adhesive all gooped up in there as well. I will have to chip all that shit out.............. There is nothing wrong with doing it this way as a do-it-yourself project, but coming from a professional builder..........that's just not right. The real crime here is people are paying sometimes big bucks for the opportunity to get raped over the cost of these guns. Was it a couple of weeks ago we were snickering over $1200+ "Converted S-12" on some of the auction sites? RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) I guess we should thank Dave @ Elite for stimulating the economy and causing folks to have to spend $$. I also think we should give him a big raspberry for doing such shoddy work and cheating trusting customers. Caspian Edited February 2, 2006 by Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M15A4spr 0 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 That's terrible! My Saiga-12 was the first work I'd ever done on any gun. Using only a dremil and a tri-angle file my work looks FAR better than that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Normally they don't come in for "repair". They simply come in to get additional work done. But once I am in there and find that kind of stuff, I will usually just go ahead and weld all the shit back up and redo it. I'll shoot a pic of the gun after it's been fixed. It will be a bit different inside though, since this gun came in for a BHO install. Since the guy is running a SAW grip anyway, I will probably weld the square hole up completely and TiG a threaded hanger in place. You can't see it in the pic, but there is a bunch of dried epoxy adhesive all gooped up in there as well. I will have to chip all that shit out.............. There is nothing wrong with doing it this way as a do-it-yourself project, but coming from a professional builder..........that's just not right. The real crime here is people are paying sometimes big bucks for the opportunity to get raped over the cost of these guns. Was it a couple of weeks ago we were snickering over $1200+ "Converted S-12" on some of the auction sites? RonSwin Keep in mind that the one everyone was snickering about was an "elite" conversion. I had one of my basic S-12 conversions up for sale on GB at the same time in response to seeing that ad. Given I did offer an eight rd mag along with the 5rdr and it was a factory 19" with BHO (although unthreaded) but it ended up selling for $1015.00 with shipping. Some people have more money than others and will not hesitate to spend a large sum to get something they want right then. If you offer something you have built or worked on at a high price you had better be willing to guarantee satisfaction. If you do then you are not raping anyone. You're not making anyone buy what you are trying to sell so there is nothing wrong with asking whatever you think you can get for it. You just better stand behind what you sell. I spoke yesterday with the man who bought my S-12 and he is more than happy with it. (Not surprising, it IS an S-12 and was converted nicely.) Besides being a Master Of Saiga Fu, Tony is a smart businessman and has the reputation he has because he earned it by doing top quality work, having excellent customer relations, and guaranteeing satisfaction. People like that don't ever have threads like this started about their work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 To be honest, my home conversion was about as bad (or worse). That is WHY I sent it to Tony. I was not satisfied at all. I cannot fathom someone actually paying to have that done. BTW, there is no more "amatuer gunsmithing" from me any more. I tried it on an old beat up AK didn't work well (although the wood turned out very nice). I have an AK now that someone else tried to do it to...it now has problems. Anymore, I'll just suck it up and hand it (and the cash) over to someone who actually knows what they are doing. But I'll be honest. In the end, even though I had already put in the US trigger group, grip, etc. etc. I still cost me as much to get Tony to fix my "bubbas" than it would have if I had just shipped it to him in the first place. And I could have saved all the time and frustration I had. Not to mention the disappointment at how it turned out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) This particular gun was not converted by Elite though it appears similar tools were used.....ie a dremel tool, screws, glue, and spray paint. I put some solvent on it, and the paint turned into a sticky mess. Edited February 2, 2006 by TonyRumore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 I realize you're trying to protect this individual's reputation, but if someone is paying for a job like that surely others might too. Do you think for the better good of everyone you would be willing to divulge who is doing weak work and claiming it as professionally converted? Obviously, Dave. Anyone one else? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 It doesn't matter. They are no longer in business. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 (edited) Unfortunately, the problem is far worse than the Saiga. More and more I'm growing to believe that our country has a serious problem with CRAFTSMANSHIP. Everyone wants things right now, companies are pushing "productivity" rather than "quality". Once people took pride in a job well done, now it seems to have more to do with lining pockets. I was fortunate growing up in the 60's-80's and was mentored by a lot of good dudes, not to mention my dad. The technical college I went to didn't take any kind of bullshit. 26 entered, 10 graduated. I guess what I'm getting at is that it would be great to be able to weed out the fuck ups before they rape people. If someone screws up your stuff, or sells you crap, let people know and don't be afraid to name names because your ashamed that you got burned. You can just read this forum for a while and see that cream rises to the top by who's post get attention, or who's opinions matter. Tony, Z1500 and Ian (although we haven't got your mags, you deserve credit for holding off until your happy with your product), Battle Rifle to name a few. Cobra doen't sell anything,***yet***, but has a lot of inovation. The board is starting to have a lot of talented folks,learn from them. Oh yeah-take pride in what you do, whatever it is. Quality Always Shoots Straight Edited February 2, 2006 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 "Measure twice, cut once"! I've cut it THREE TIMES and it's STILL too short! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 when you cant use a hand tool or machine, you measure five hundred times, cut one hundred times, and always leave it long so you still can reach your tolerances. I completely agree with cobra's statement of having to go back and FIX shit. Im down in florida now, and I just got done fixing people's "shit", and am now finally covering new ground, which wont have to be gone back over, and I wont have to worry about EVER again... you have to take pride in your work and like it to succeed. and a secret? you do 110%. it pays itself off BIG TIME in the long run. sorry for the lecture, but just stating how I feel about this particular subject. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 0 Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 This particular gun was not converted by Elite though it appears similar tools were used.....ie a dremel tool, screws, glue, and spray paint. I put some solvent on it, and the paint turned into a sticky mess. If it wasn't Elite, it must have been one of Diamond Dave's understudies. A very happy 5 Saiga conversions customer of Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 I learned something from a long career as a trim carpenter and cabinetmaker. It usually takes more time in the long run to do a hack job on something as it does to do it correctly. Programming is the same, except they will come back to you 3 million times asking you to change how it works. It would be like a customer that would change his mind 30 times about what caliber, type of action, design of stock or metal finish, only multiplied many times over. You eventually get very good at designing software that is the equivalent of the M16 upper/lower system. It goes apart and comes together like legos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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