saltydecimator 482 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 We can get crazy Chinese ones tho? Wtf?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 It's a Russian thang.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Good question. Maybe the tooling to manufacture every part of the gun is too pricey. They could spec. every part of the gun and machine but, maybe the market is already saturated. I'll bet the Chinese guns get tweaked and stroked and accessorized like the Saiga-12 and turn out to be a decent gun. I'm not saying that it's a great copy but, prejudice kept me away from alot of great cheap guns. A Japanese S&W Model 3000 pump fills my 12 gauge slot. Edited January 29, 2015 by Sim_Player Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 It's all about risk to benefit.Designing, tooling up, and beginning manufacturing of a product is extremely expensive. There's a substantial risk of your investment not being paid back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 i suppose, but its a slightly cheaper endeavor over there, i presume. just bribe the right folks and a way you go! no regulatory body stifling everything like over here... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_Boris_ 63 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 why should there be? Izhmash is pretty dominant and those countries made AKs because they were part of the Warsaw pact etc. Civilian market isn't that big there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 It's all about risk to benefit. Designing, tooling up, and beginning manufacturing of a product is extremely expensive. There's a substantial risk of your investment not being paid back. ^ this. Think about it, if they spent all the money for tooling, engineering and research and then we had a ban because of the ass-hat in the Whitehouse, all their money is down the tube. They won't do anything risky with the current president and the possible political risk he creates 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 there would be nill cost though i feel. i mean ya they gotta tool up, but wouldnt be THAT crazy to get into... they already doin it for cripes sake! innovate or die!!! that would kill apple except everyone just blindly follows em. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 there would be nill cost though i feel. i mean ya they gotta tool up, but wouldnt be THAT crazy to get into... they already doin it for cripes sake! innovate or die!!! that would kill apple except everyone just blindly follows em. I think you vastly underestimate the cost of designing and tooling up. Dozens of new parts have to be designed, which means dozens of processes have to be tooled up for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete Le Hachoir 16 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I don't think Poland, the former Yugo states or Romania use any AK shotguns, no point in tooling or making them to sell to Americans when they have arms and ammunition contracts with US and NATO governments to make rifles for haji in the middle east and central asia. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metalgodlb 30 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It will probably not happen, but I think a Zastava made mag fed shotgun with the wood M76 styling or even a Tabuk buttstock.. What would be especially neat is if they incorporated an adjustable gas system like they use on some of their rifles. Sadly, I have heard zilch about Century bringing in ANYTHING new from Zastava since all of their announcements regarding domestic AK production. If Century keeps focusing on domestic production, I really hope someone else picks up the Zastava importation.. Sorry for going off topic. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 This subject has been hashed out over and over here for the past 8 years or more. Over that time still no MFG has stepped forward to make an all US made AK shotgun. NO I am not even going there with that abomination recently intro'd which I nickname "the thumb breaker" either. A new US outlet was announced just a week or two ago for actual Russian built (designed) weapons in the US. I'm keeping my hopes up for them. Century did build an AK. Ask them why they didn't tool up to make a shotgun too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 One of the press releases about RWC specifically mentioned shotguns. I'm betting they'll tool up to build a 12-gauge AK. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metalgodlb 30 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Cobra I have no doubt you know more of the subject than I but my guess on Century would be because they are seeing how the Catamount venture rides out? I honestly don't know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 well honestly it doesnt have to be a true ak. i just want a few things: 1 detachable box mag fed 2 very easy on the recoil 3 "modular" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metalgodlb 30 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I mainly hope it's an ak to help support our guys in the aftermarket biz so they don't have to go through all of the retooling and what not. It would be nice to share mags, pistol grips, etc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the patent aspects. The Soviet Union set up the satellite countries to produce AKs but later claimed that the agreement didn't cover commercial sales. I think Izhmash even tried to take legal action against Arsenal Bulgaria for selling rifles. I remember reading about the un-enforceability of a contract agreed upon by two entities that no longer exist, where one of them really had no choice in the matter at the time. The S12 is a different situation entirely. This design was produced by Izhmash after the fall of the USSR with the commercial market in mind.The Russians own all the rights to this design, and I think it would have to be altered at least to some degree to avoid infringing on their patent. I'm not sure how much it would have to change, but it's something to consider. I'm not sure how the Catamount Fury differs, but maybe that's enough. The Chinese get away with their 870 clones so maybe it's easier than I think. Perhaps their shitty cast parts on the Fury are enough to differentiate it. Edit: (fixed typo) Edited February 1, 2015 by SGL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the patent aspects. The Soviet Union set up the satellite countries to produce AKs but later claimed that the agreement didn't cover commercial sales. I think Izhmash even tried to take legal action against Arsenal Bulgaria for selling rifles. I remember reading about the un-enforceability of a contract agreed upon by two entities that no longer exist, where one of them really had no choice in the matter at the time. The S12 is a different situation entirely. This design was produced by Izhmash after the fall of the USSR with the commercial market in mind. The Russians own all the rights to this design, and I think it would have to be altered at least to some degree to avoid infringing on their patent. I'm not sure how much it would have to change, but it's something to consider. I'm not sure how the Catamount Fury differs, but maybe that's enough. The Chinese get away with their 870 clones so maybe it's easier than I think. Perhaps their shitting cast parts on the Fury are enough to differentiate it. The 870 is old enough I'm sure the patent has expired. The S-12 - doubtful. But I'm not sure how international patent law works. The basic action is more than 20 years old now, it's possible that the design is no longer protected by international law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 15 years is pretty much the limit everywhere. Some distinctive styling touches that don't greatly affect function might be protectable for longer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I know I would not waste my time, much less any money on the Catamount that thing is the biggest POS I've ever seen trying to replicate a weapon. I handled one at my local dealer and had to try just to be polite and hand it back. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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