mike456 12 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 i dont ever use steel in my pistols is there any reason to go one way or the other with my saiga besides price? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I use steel casing in pistols and rifles. The saiga just eats anything you feed it, period. Golden tiger is steel cased and one of the best manufactured. Better hurry though, only 15 cases left at sgammo.......... However if you wish to pay more, go ahead. It's your rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 my shop warned against wolf, they said tula would be a better choice, how does golden tiger compare? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Its all pretty much the same with Golden Tiger at the top of the heap, it uses a different bullet type (boat tail) and is loaded hotter. Plus it has a sealed primer and case neck which is better for storage. By a few different brands and see which one yours groups best with. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I shoot wolf,Tula and others with no issues. Not sure why your shop doesn't like wolf? Like MM said try out a few 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 ^^^What he said.^^^ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What they said ^^^ I also like Yugo, brass cased, corrosive. And my rifle likes it better than GT. So does my SKS, with added bonus that it's all on SKS stripper clips. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Aren't steel casings supposed to cause more wear than brass ones? I heard that at some point and held it in concern up til this point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spikester 93 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 The steel os so soft I doubt it would ever damage anything. I use it with my Saiga and SKS plus Mini 14, fine for plinking. I have a Keltec PF9 that doesn't like the harder primers but it runs fine in XD9. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Aren't steel casings supposed to cause more wear than brass ones? I heard that at some point and held it in concern up til this point. This is actually a bit of a misconception. Most steel cased ammo has a bi-metal bullet. This means that the jacket of the bullet is steel and copper washed. With high pressure rounds (5.56) and high volume of fire, a bi-metal bullet has been shown to increase barrel wear. It's not the case, it's the bullet, and it's probably not an issue with slower rounds. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ Some people are concerned about extractor wear on their pistols, but you can buy a lot of extractors for the price difference between a few cases of steel and a few cases of brass. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What about 7.62x25mm and 5.45x39mm? [The two calibers I'd be looking at getting a weapon in that commonly have steel casings.] What about barrel/extractor wear with those? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 my shop warned against wolf, they said tula would be a better choice, how does golden tiger compare? Your shop doesn't know what's what. For the last few years, on average Wolf will always be better than Tulammo anything - Tulammo has had some bad QC on case sizing, low powder charge, etc. Not sure why they would warn about one or the other though, since they are still both Russian steel-case ammo. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Aren't steel casings supposed to cause more wear than brass ones? I heard that at some point and held it in concern up til this point. This is actually a bit of a misconception. Most steel cased ammo has a bi-metal bullet. This means that the jacket of the bullet is steel and copper washed. With high pressure rounds (5.56) and high volume of fire, a bi-metal bullet has been shown to increase barrel wear. It's not the case, it's the bullet, and it's probably not an issue with slower rounds. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ Some people are concerned about extractor wear on their pistols, but you can buy a lot of extractors for the price difference between a few cases of steel and a few cases of brass. Magnets... That's tell you about the bullets and that cases. There is no misconception if the metal is ferrous or not. I've recovered hundreds of bimetal bullets that are not ferrous, copper and lead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 let me clarify, my shop said wolf is a "dirtier round" meaning I'd have to clean more often and avoid it for that reason, sorry for confusion most have told me "it's an AK you can run anything through it" followed by examples of guns they would not use steel in which is basically everything out there other than a revolver I'm on a ruger site and they debated the same thing plus ALUMINUM, if I remember correctly aluminum was dismissed based on the fact that pricing had increased over time to the point that it's about even with brass, or no substantial savings, no one on the site used steel, "extractor wear" as jdeko mentioned Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 The data is out there. The short answer of the real extreme round count testing, is that yes bi'metal jacketed bullets do wear slightly faster. However this is not in a quantity that most people will ever experience. Further, if they were shooting that much, they could replace the whole gun several times and still be money ahead on the ammo. The main problems with bi-metal jacketed stuff is that a lot of it has a soft steel core to make it cheaper. This is fine generally, but makes each bullet an assembly of 3 pieces, and therefore have higher tolerance stacking issues. steel core, lead swaged around to allow obturation, steel/copper jacket. This means it is hard to do much better than 2 MOA with bullets made this way. 2 MOA is more than good enough for most of what people do with bullets i.e. war, hunting at moderate ranges, etc. However, if you are wanting match accuracy, it is not for you. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 let me clarify, my shop said wolf is a "dirtier round" meaning I'd have to clean more often and avoid it for that reason, sorry for confusion most have told me "it's an AK you can run anything through it" followed by examples of guns they would not use steel in which is basically everything out there other than a revolver I'm on a ruger site and they debated the same thing plus ALUMINUM, if I remember correctly aluminum was dismissed based on the fact that pricing had increased over time to the point that it's about even with brass, or no substantial savings, no one on the site used steel, "extractor wear" as jdeko mentioned I think the problem you run into a lot is these people may not even be capable of replacing an extractor themselves, so they're factoring in the cost of gunsmith fees, parts costs, waiting time, etc. If you can replace an extractor on a firearm yourself, the cost savings are huge, and there is no guarantee that an extractor is going to wear down from shooting steel cased ammo in most firearms today. Compare cost of a few thousand rounds of steel case 9mm vs brass 9mm, and maybe you replace an extractor after a few thousand rounds. So what? It's a 30 minute job at best with most pistols and rifles. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 The data is out there. The short answer of the real extreme round count testing, is that yes bi'metal jacketed bullets do wear slightly faster. However this is not in a quantity that most people will ever experience. Further, if they were shooting that much, they could replace the whole gun several times and still be money ahead on the ammo. The main problems with bi-metal jacketed stuff is that a lot of it has a soft steel core to make it cheaper. This is fine generally, but makes each bullet an assembly of 3 pieces, and therefore have higher tolerance stacking issues. steel core, lead swaged around to allow obturation, steel/copper jacket. This means it is hard to do much better than 2 MOA with bullets made this way. 2 MOA is more than good enough for most of what people do with bullets i.e. war, hunting at moderate ranges, etc. However, if you are wanting match accuracy, it is not for you. what does MOA stand for? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Minute of Angle. The primary way accuracy is measured. (someone will now jump in and say, you mean "precision"...) 1 MOA is 1/60 of one degree. Roughly 1" at 100 yards. Most guns and ammo are in the 2- 2.5 MOA range. Plus add another 2-3 MOA for human error with a reasonably competent shooter outside of benchrest conditions. That leaves you with maybe 5-6" groups at a hundred yards with the average rifle, in normal conditions, and normal ammo. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tool_of_Society 15 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 my shop warned against wolf, they said tula would be a better choice, how does golden tiger compare? Your shop doesn't know what's what. For the last few years, on average Wolf will always be better than Tulammo anything - Tulammo has had some bad QC on case sizing, low powder charge, etc. Not sure why they would warn about one or the other though, since they are still both Russian steel-case ammo. That's interesting because every single time I've shot wolf ammo I've had zingers. Tulammo on the other hand has always been consistent. Monarch ammo has been incredibly inconsistent every time I've shot it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 my shop warned against wolf, they said tula would be a better choice, how does golden tiger compare? Your shop doesn't know what's what. For the last few years, on average Wolf will always be better than Tulammo anything - Tulammo has had some bad QC on case sizing, low powder charge, etc. Not sure why they would warn about one or the other though, since they are still both Russian steel-case ammo. That's interesting because every single time I've shot wolf ammo I've had zingers. Tulammo on the other hand has always been consistent.Monarch ammo has been incredibly inconsistent every time I've shot it. what's a zinger? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 To me a zinger is a richochet that makes that old timey western Kazing-ing-whirr. I mostly get them with .22LR, But that makes no sense in this context. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Long Shot 1,287 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 This also makes no sense in this context. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I ordered a case of golden tiger from sgammo, sounds like it should be from china Edited July 18, 2015 by mike456 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I ordered a case of golden tiger from sgammo, sounds like it should be from china 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Or the bullets told really hurtful jokes after being fired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tool_of_Society 15 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 A term used here for a bullet that flies off the mark by a very noticeable amount. I've also heard them called "flyers". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I ordered a case of golden tiger from sgammo, sounds like it should be from china Good job, now get some wolf and Tula . Take a range day and shoot all three and see which one you like the best. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike456 12 Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I ordered a case of golden tiger from sgammo, sounds like it should be from china ChineseGoldenTiger.png ssssank you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alfred788 0 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I have a variant of the AK, as well as an SKS. In the thousands of personally-fired rounds, they have all been steel-cased, Eastern Bloc ammo. No failures. These guns are made for that ammo.I've also never heard of them having issues with the ammo that was designed for them, and I know a lot of guys that shoot them regularly.One thing to keep in mind is some ranges might not allow that ammo, as most of it also has bullets with steel in them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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