.410 for hunting

[Vermiform 26]

I am trying to decide which would be a more practical buy for hunting. A Saiga .410 or 20 guage.

 

After converting it, I intend for it to double as a home defense gun for the wife, so I am leaning more towards the 410 though she might not mind shooting a 20 guage. She shot my 12 guage Norinco pump and didn't like the kick on it, but she grew up shooting a 410.

 

My biggest concern is hunting purposes. When it comes to an overall bird, squirrel and wabbit gun, which is going to perform best?

 

What about shell availability and cost? 410 vs 20

 

Also, higher cap mags seem to be more predominant for the 410, or am I wrong on that?

 

and NO GODDAMNIT, "Just buy both" ain't an option. I already bought a Saiga x39 and .308 this year. Any deal including both shotguns needs to have provisions for a good divorce lawyer...........

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

My wife didn't mind the kick on my converted S-20 at all. Shells are cheaper too I believe. Knock down power and pattern for bird hunting is better buyt the 410 has it's own place. I love mine. I mainly use it as a rifle though. The 8 and ten rdrs are around for the 20 if you are patient. Dinzag has some 10s for sale now.

[dinzag 31]

I agree, the S-20 for hunting. The 410's work great too, but with a 20 gauge consider:

 

A lot more pellets per round.

The ammo is cheaper.

Larger variety of ammo.

 

Mag cost is a wash & they'll both kill small game.

[Vermiform 26]

K, so what can I hunt with a 20 that I can't really effectively hunt with a 410?

 

Note: No sarcasm in above statement. I really don't know.

[dinzag 31]

Deer for one...

[G O B 3,516]

If it is going to be the wife's HD, get the .410. My wife LOVES her's. And 10rds of .410 will stop several crackheads! The recoil of the .410 is even less than an X39, and with slugs it is adequate for deer. #6 shot works wonders on bunnies.

[Zoub 0]

Never, ever, teach a person to hunt with a .410. A .410 is for experts.

 

When I was a kid I happened to be a natural shotgunner, and with professional shooters in the family that comes as no surprise. My brother was a natural rifleman and did not have the same results with a .410 in his hands young.

 

go with a 20 gauge BUT the gun must fit the shooter or gauge is a non issue. Defensive shooting is a piece of cake compared to hitting a target the size of your hand moving between 20 and 60mph. 410 is a 50 yard gun on deer with slugs, 20 will go 100. Hi caps mags are not a big issue for defense, 5 rounds of 20 and something has to give.

 

In addition the .410 is nothing compared to a 20 and the Saigas are some of the softest shooting shotguns out there. I plan to get a Saiga 20 to toss aside for my daughter when she is an adult. For now she uses my "nice" 20's.

Edited November 19, 2006 by Zoub

[Vermiform 26]

As far as deer go, I have a Saiga .308 and a bolt 30-06 for that. The only time I would use a shotgun for deer is a target of oportunity in which case I would have to switch out shells.

 

What I'm most converned with is small game. I think the 20 is the best fit.

 

In addition the .410 is nothing compared to a 20 and the Saigas are some of the softest shooting shotguns out there.

 

and I hadn't thought of this. The only .410 she has ever shot (or me for that matter) is a breakover which I bet is close to the kick on a semi-auto 20.

 

Hi caps mags are not a big issue for defense, 5 rounds of 20 and something has to give.

 

Blasphemy! Hi caps are always a big issue to me. Hehehehehe!

[AKOK 4]

The best dove shooter I ever shot with used a .410 . Made me a believer.

[Aethelbert 1]

The best dove shooter I ever shot with used a .410 . Made me a believer.

 

If you are also going to consider a shotgun for your wife to use for home defense, the .410 is far from the worst choice -- a .25 sutomatic probably is! Saw my dad -- lo! these many years past when I was but a callow teenager! -- shoot a dog in the 45-50 lb class in the chest at about 15 feet. Even with #6 shot it blew a 1/2 hole through the dog's rib cage and dropped the dog in its tracks. Changed my mind about whether the .410 was such a kid's shotgun and ineffective -- a popular belief back then. Come to think of it, 10-15 feet is about it for probable range to target in home defensive shooting.

 

Shot doesn't spread out all that much at such close range. Myself? I prefer to use either Barnaul or Brenneke slugs and -- voila! -- the sound of the Saiga changes from the 'boom' of a shotgun to the sharp, piercing 'c-r-a-a-c-k!' like a rifle and acts more like a short range (up to 80-85 yards according to the Russians) rifle. Only problem with slugs for home defense is over-penetration, same as with using a rifle for home defense.

 

Still, it boils down to what you and your wife feel most comfortable with. Right?

[ryancrowder 17]

Deer for one...

So you would not suggest trying to take a deer with my .410? I was seriously considering it. Surely it has enough knock down power w/slugs. Doesn't it?

[Aethelbert 1]

Deer for one...

So you would not suggest trying to take a deer with my .410? I was seriously considering it. Surely it has enough knock down power w/slugs. Doesn't it?

 

Depends on what it's like where you will be hunting. The S.410 would be adequate for about the same range as, say, a .44 magnum -- adequate for short ranges that (IMO) do not exceed 50 yards. Around here that wouldn't be much of a problem since most deer taken by people I personally know are taken are no more than 30 yards.

 

I also know 3 guys who hunt from deer stands and get the deer that actually walk up to the tree they are in. And, heck, they could use crossbows or (as one of them said), "Coulda used a small depth charge!"

 

Shotguns of any guage are usually considered to be a relatively short range weapon when hunting.

 

BTW, Happy Thanksgiving Day!

[G O B 3,516]

The .410 with slugs or000 make great brush/swamp deer guns. Anywhere a .44 mag levergun would be appropriate.

[Aethelbert 1]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(G O B @ Nov 23 2006, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

The .410 with slugs or000 make great brush/swamp deer guns. Anywhere a .44 mag levergun would be appropriate.

 

GOB,

You sound like a man after my own heart (and probably heart, liver, kidneys and lungs, as well, providing Cobra doesn't beat you to it)!

 

Strange, isn't it, that there are some folks who will swear by their .44 mag carbine/rifle or even one in .44-40 but won't consider that the .410 Saiga with either Barnaul or Brenneke slugs is also capable of doing the same job -- that of taking a deer at reasonable range?

Edited November 24, 2006 by Aethelbert

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I would be confident with mine if that's all I had but shot placement would have to be dead on...but that's no prob inside of 50 yds.

[Hunter78 1]

410 will work for anything that a 20 will kill BUT, for a beginner a 20 will be more effective. Longer ranges and more shot. For deer, you would have to see if 410 are legal in your state. They are illegal ror deer in WI. Also range would be a issue. I don't mind shooting deer with a shotgun, at close range they will ussually do more damage then a rifle. My area is shotgun only. If you use a 410 just be more aware of range limitations then if you use a 12 or 20.

[G O B 3,516]

Agreed , it is not a 200 yard gun. But most deer around here are shot at 50 feet, Dave the "GUN Merchant" says that he sells every S-.410 he can get his hands on over on MD's Eastern Shore, the deer are small and Sitga even smaller, and the scrub and swamp make the lighter .410 a lot easier to carry/use.

[Vermiform 26]

I'm more concerned with birds and small game. If I am after deer, I'm gonna have my 308 and probably be in my stand or on my way to it. The only time I'll be firing a shotgun slug or buckshot at deer is if its a target of opportunity.

 

Some people have said I won't want to be rabbit or dove hunting with a 410.

 

Thoughts?

[dinzag 31]

I prefer to shoot quail with the 410. Why not? It puts a hurtin' on the bunnies too.

Since we cannot legally shoot corn thieving doves here, I cannot speak for those.

 

#4 shot - 3" ammo and a full choke are awesome inside 100 feet.

 

Squirrels are a tough customer due to the thick hide, but birds & bunnies are a piece of cake.

 

The proper answer is to get both. Decide for yourself...

Edited December 14, 2006 by dinzag

[studmuff1228 0]

personaly i don't like shotguns but if i use one it is a .410 there isn't much art in shooting a hand full of lead balls at something just my opinion to each his own

[Vermiform 26]

there isn't much art in shooting a hand full of lead balls at something just my opinion to each his own

 

Well, duck or dove hunting with a .223 or x39 just seems irresponsible to me.

Edited December 20, 2006 by Vermiform

[studmuff1228 0]

yea it does good point im not going to fight that one, but i don't hunt them

[G O B 3,516]

Everybody knows that ducks and geese are why they are now selling S-.30-06 's!!!!

 

 

[studmuff1228 0]

[IndyArms 10,186]

I doubt I will be able to sum all this up for you in one post... but let me give you my 2 cents.

 

I have hunted rabbit and squirrel and upland birds for MANY years with all calibers of shotguns... from 12 gauge down to .410.

 

Each has its place and each has its pro's and con's. Would I want to hunt grouse with a .410 in thick pines? fuck NO! I want the denser shot pattern of a 20 or even the 12 for the range... although in that dense of brush, range is not an issue... you got a blink of an eye or its GONE...

 

For squirrel and rabbits I SWEAR by my S-410 (See my post Magical 410) and to reiterate... I was out with it THIS MORNING, and made a shot on a running bunny that dropped it dead... Through thick brush... I put the red dot on it... if I can see critter and red dot, its dead... simple as that. ( Within 40 yards!)

I will NOT USE a 20 or 12 gauge on rabbits or squirrels anymore as they tend to ruin meat. I used to have to ACTIVELY THINK about aiming my 12 gauge in the area of 3 to 6 inches out in front of the face of a rabbit or squirrel to keep the pattern thin on the vitals and to keep from mutilating it.

 

That all said... When I go hunting for small game, I will ONLY use the .410. Its a bit more expensive for shells, but when it will kill a critter dead with 2 or 3 pellets instead of 20 pellets... it makes for a more tasty meal and less fear of chomping on a pellet and chipping a tooth. LOL

 

for home defense... the 20 would have more ass behind it, although a 410 with buckshot will do the job with less danger of over penetration on a missed shot.

 

for trap shooting/skeet I would use the S20. I have shot rounds of trap with my 410... I think the BEST I ever got was about a 15 or 16 out of 25. I can shoot perfects with the S20. Although that practice on a moving target... a real snap shooting situation with the 410 is part of the reason I think I do well when it comes to field use, and small game hunting.

 

I know you said both is not an option... I would buy the S20 first... become proficient with it... and then ASAP get yourself the 410... I think you will enjoy the flexibility having both offers.

Personally I would get the 410 first... but unless you are a proficient shot in the field, the S20 will be more forgiving. Thats why I recommend the S20 as the first choice, with the acquisition of the .410 when possible.

 

I hope all that blah blah blah helps...

 

[Vermiform 26]

I doubt I will be able to sum all this up for you in one post... but let me give you my 2 cents.

 

I have hunted rabbit and squirrel and upland birds for MANY years with all calibers of shotguns... from 12 gauge down to .410.

 

Each has its place and each has its pro's and con's. Would I want to hunt grouse with a .410 in thick pines? fuck NO! I want the denser shot pattern of a 20 or even the 12 for the range... although in that dense of brush, range is not an issue... you got a blink of an eye or its GONE...

 

For squirrel and rabbits I SWEAR by my S-410 (See my post Magical 410) and to reiterate... I was out with it THIS MORNING, and made a shot on a running bunny that dropped it dead... Through thick brush... I put the red dot on it... if I can see critter and red dot, its dead... simple as that. ( Within 40 yards!)

I will NOT USE a 20 or 12 gauge on rabbits or squirrels anymore as they tend to ruin meat. I used to have to ACTIVELY THINK about aiming my 12 gauge in the area of 3 to 6 inches out in front of the face of a rabbit or squirrel to keep the pattern thin on the vitals and to keep from mutilating it.

 

That all said... When I go hunting for small game, I will ONLY use the .410. Its a bit more expensive for shells, but when it will kill a critter dead with 2 or 3 pellets instead of 20 pellets... it makes for a more tasty meal and less fear of chomping on a pellet and chipping a tooth. LOL

 

for home defense... the 20 would have more ass behind it, although a 410 with buckshot will do the job with less danger of over penetration on a missed shot.

 

for trap shooting/skeet I would use the S20. I have shot rounds of trap with my 410... I think the BEST I ever got was about a 15 or 16 out of 25. I can shoot perfects with the S20. Although that practice on a moving target... a real snap shooting situation with the 410 is part of the reason I think I do well when it comes to field use, and small game hunting.

 

I know you said both is not an option... I would buy the S20 first... become proficient with it... and then ASAP get yourself the 410... I think you will enjoy the flexibility having both offers.

Personally I would get the 410 first... but unless you are a proficient shot in the field, the S20 will be more forgiving. Thats why I recommend the S20 as the first choice, with the acquisition of the .410 when possible.

 

I hope all that blah blah blah helps...

 

 

 

That's exactly the "blah blah blah" I was looking for. Thanks!

[ironhead7544 35]

The 410 will work but throws a lesser pattern. For the recoil sensitive the 410 would be better. As far as deer goes, the 410 slug has a 95 grain bullet at about 1900 fps, I think. Correct me if Im wrong on that. That puts it in the 30 Carbine class. I wouldnt use it over 30 yards or so. The buckshot loads are probably better for deer but also at close range. If you are a handloader its possible to put six .350 muzzleloader balls in a 3 in shell and get 1200 fps out of it. That would be my pick for deer. Also on small game the 7 and 1/2 shot seems to works best. If you get the 20, you could get a buffer and have the stock cut to fit along with a recoil pad. I think that may really tame the 20. Just my .02.

[IndyArms 10,186]

Hell... for small game I am using 3" #4's or steel cased Barnaul 3" #3's!

 

I dont ever have any problems with anything getting away, and fewer pellets to bite on! LOL

 

 

[bugeye 2]

Good luck finding a 20. I looked for several weeks when I stumbled on a 410 @ $205.

I went for it and I love it. But finding 3 in slugs & buckshot is tough around here.

Merry Christmas!

[Red Jacket 329]

love the .410 . I've probably popped more bunnys and tree rats with it then with all my 12's combined . Just whacked off the barrel of a Saiga .410 about 2 in. in front of the gasblock , stuck a birdcage type fh'r on the end . Going to stick one of Tony's stocks on it . My new camp gun . When I'm shooting at small furrys I like to use 3 in. Remington 7 1/2 shot .