LESchwartz 9 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) What are my options for a muzzle brake on my S-308 if I don't have a mill and lathe? 1) They make "pin-on" and "twist-lock" brakes for the SKS. Does anybody make something like this for the S-308? 2) Does anyone make a replacement FSB for the S-308 that has threads or a built-in brake? 3) What about cutting the muzzle cover off the FSB, drilling out the threads on an existing AK break, and then soldering it on? 4) Any other options that don't require a mill or lathe? thanks in advance, Larry Edited January 17, 2007 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 1) They make "pin-on" and "twist-lock" brakes for the SKS. Does anybody make something like this for the S-308? I should note that there are a variety of "pin-on" brakes for the MAK-90. Has anyone tried to drill one out so that it goes over the FSB and barrel shroud? Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
texlurch 0 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Either change out the FSB, or weld the brake on. So far my welded ones are working fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 If you like the 74-style, Dinzag machines and sells one for the 308. All that's required is a little reaming of the FSB, which he can do for you. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry110152 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) One option, is to remove it, bore out it to be push back use only one pin to hold it, giving you space to treat the barrel and install any brake that you may want, no need to use a lathe or mill to do it. Just my 2 cents, damn if I was you I will never listen to a fool like me. And fuck the pin on brakes and all that crap, if you going to do something do it right. Edited January 18, 2007 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 One option, is to remove it, bore out it to be push back useonly one pin to hold it, giving you space to treat the barrel and install any brake that you may want, no need to use a lathe or mill to do it. vjor, Unfortunately without a lathe, I don't think I could thread the barrel. Normally AKs are threaded using 14x1 LH threads. The forward portion of the S-308 barrel looks to be at least 17 mm. Unless I'm missing something . . . Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 One option, is to remove it, bore out it to be push back useonly one pin to hold it, giving you space to treat the barrel and install any brake that you may want, no need to use a lathe or mill to do it. vjor, Unfortunately without a lathe, I don't think I could thread the barrel. Normally AKs are threaded using 14x1 LH threads. The forward portion of the S-308 barrel looks to be at least 17 mm. Unless I'm missing something . . . Larry Look in here http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=12552 Look at what Bad Bob post, that is the old ways gunsmith used to do stuff with out lathe and mill, is good info and a lot of people dont even notice it specially the mod, that are more concern with stick crap than save stuff like this that is good info. Any way just my 2 cents. what do I know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 What are my options for a muzzle brake on my S-308 if I don't have a mill and lathe? 1) They make "pin-on" and "twist-lock" brakes for the SKS. Does anybody make something like this for the S-308? 2) Does anyone make a replacement FSB for the S-308 that has threads or a built-in brake? 3) What about cutting the muzzle cover off the FSB, drilling out the threads on an existing AK break, and then soldering it on? 4) Any other options that don't require a mill or lathe? thanks in advance, Larry Danzig is considering doing a run of flash hiders and brakes that will not require removal of the FSB. He quoted me $75 when he gets to it. He's sort of in an experimental mode with this, so if you're interested, I'd PM him so that he knows the interest is there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JWarren 0 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 I just sent a PM to Dinzag to express my interest in his Muzzle Brake project. I've been in a delimma over the muzzle brake issue. After doing enough reading, I've determined that I don't want to risk any reduction in accuracy by having my barrel pressed out and turned down for threading. That leaves me only a few options: 1. No Brake-- not a good option for my uses. 2. Bore out a Brake, notch it for the FSB, and weld that sucker on. No chance of changing brakes ever. 3. Having a custom Brake Adapter made that will use the FSB pins to retain, and maybe spot welded to FSB. Probably $$$. 4. Doing like the linked thread showed. Bore FSB and push it back, Carefully dremel and thread the barrel. Would still be $$$ for me.... I'd have to buy the die and TAT.... no way would I borrow my friends for that. 5. Dinzag's brake project-- seems like the best option to me, but need to hear more about how its gonna be done. As it is, Dinzag's option seems to be the best, followed by the option #4. Any ideas or suggestions? -- John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Rick16 who used to post here all the time made a series of slip on brakes for the 308 that looked badass!!! Unfortunately, he has not made any since, nor has he been around... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted January 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Rick16 who used to post here all the time made a series of slip on brakes for the 308 that looked badass!!! Unfortunately, he has not made any since, nor has he been around... I emailed rick a week ago, and didn't get a response yet. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I carefully modified (shaped, ground and opened up the muzzle end of) a G3 flash hider and TIG welded it to the FSB without removing the "muzzle protector / crown that is intrigal to the FSB. I used a Dremel for all of the work. Originally, I started to remove and set-back the FSB and thread the muzzle for 5/8-24, but in the end, this was the easier job. A muzzle device with an opening of 14mm (or .551) or larger is easiest to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I've concluded that I will want to try a pin-on brake as a first attempt. I was going to try boring out a Mak-90 pin-on break. I should be able to us a 25/32" drill & finish up by using a dremel to widen out the sight slot. If I'm careful, it should work on an unmodified rifle . . . If that doesn't work, I'll contact Danzig. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted January 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 (edited) Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I've concluded that I will want to try a pin-on brake as a first attempt. I was going to try boring out a Mak-90 pin-on break. I should be able to us a 25/32" drill & finish up by using a dremel to widen out the sight slot. OK, I tried over-boring out a MAK-90 AK-74 style pin-on muzzle brake with a 25/32" drill bit. Unfortunately, my cheap drill press was not up to the task of boring it true. The drill removed more material from one side (the open portion) than the other (the closed side). It still looks like this idea would work, but I'm afraid that it would take someone with a mill to be able to bore it true . . . Larry Edited January 24, 2007 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I sent this to Larry, but I will post here as well. I'll be prototyping up something like this very soon. By the end of Feb I might have a few to sell. Option #1...something like this Mosin brake. Option #2...a 14x1 LH threaded adapter so you can put whatever brake you want on it. It will wrap around the FSB & clamp down to the barrel similiar to the above pic. If it were me I'd prefer #2. I cannot put up a projected price as of yet. I thought I could make the Mosin brake work, but it does not quite cut the mustard. A guy sent me a couple to try to mod, but the meat just isn't there. I need to make sure it can be retained and still be aligned with the bore. He will be getting the first prototypes I make and I will see how much time is involved. Where's that damn TAT kit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aurbis 1 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 That threaded adaptor sounds like a very good idea. Would you limit it to just the 308 or expand the product line to include all Saiga calibers? Or would it be universal and fit ever barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Actually the .223's & x39's are easy to make for 24mm threads. Bore out a threaded 14x1LH x 24mm adapter & set screw/silver solder/weld on. Those adapters are $10 at midwest armory - FYI. I can bore & set screw them for $20. Otherwise, remove the shroud from the FSB, then thread it with a TAT kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aurbis 1 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Actually the .223's & x39's are easy to make for 24mm threads.Bore out a threaded 14x1LH x 24mm adapter & set screw/silver solder/weld on. Those adapters are $10 at midwest armory - FYI. I can bore & set screw them for $20. Now you tell me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 dinzig, I like option #2 the best . . . however, I would want to have the plunger to help secure the brake. Without the plunger, I would opt for option #1. thanks for your help, Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Where's that damn TAT kit? 007.gif Maybe its time to send in the MONGOOSE... Cause the Cobra currently has it!!! LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Dude hold your horses..lol! It's coming soon. Still trying to get it to fit around my S-12 barrel... ...damn thing just won't go! Hey! I know! Maybe I'll just bust out some more of these teeth and hit it with the dremel. Surely it will work then! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 LESchwartz, It would be tricky to do the plunger unless it was made much longer. I was thinking an indexing nut for clocking purposes. Basically the pin and spring would have to be in front of the FSB tower. Cobra, just do what I did with WJM's kit. Use a sledge hammer. It will fit then. 14x1LH threads on a S-12 - killer idea!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) OK, so I had a machinest friend of mine try to do some mods on a NCStar pin-on MAK-90 muzzle brake. First he bored it to 0.785 Dia. x 0.930 Depth. Then he milled the FSB slot to 0.520 W x 0.735 D . . . I tried it tonight and it was "no joy" . . . it seems that there isn't enough material on the barrel shroud to hold the break true to the bore. Oh well, I got to see an old friend & I already had the MAK-90 brakes . . . I guess there's another sale in dinzag's future. Larry PS to dinzig: What do you recommend -- should I wait for your bolt on solution, or send in my FSB for boring and use your set screw solution? Edited February 9, 2007 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hold out for a few weeks and see if you want what I make up. You've been wanting a solution for awhile as have many others. For your choice, depends if you want a clamp-on design or if you want to cut notches for the cross pins to install the FSB back further. I know many guys don't want to mess with removing the FSB. The adapter will look bulkier - the O.D. will be about 1.13" - vs the 0.79 FSB. Still trying to decide whether we're going with 14x1.0 LH or 24x1.5 RH. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 I don't have a problem with removing the FSB. The problem is I have no way to turn the bbl down to take the 14/1 LH threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted February 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Still trying to decide whether we're going with 14x1.0 LH or 24x1.5 RH. FWIW, I think the preference would be 14x1 due to the numerous brakes available. However, I can also imagine that the 24x1.5 might look a lot better. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) You're correct on both accounts. 24mm would be easier to MFG for me and looks a little cleaner, but... If I go with 14x1, you can screw on a 14/24 adapter. Still trying to solve the indexing issue. Possibly instead of an indexing nut, maybe a set screw coming down to top dead center that goes through the indexing notch on the brake. Otherwise I'll need to lengthen the adapter in front of the front sight block a bit to make room for an indexing pin and spring. These are some of what I've done and some idea of what the adapters would look like. The 1st pic is factory config 2nd is what I've done for a couple guys to fit a slip-on/set screw brake - bored the FSB partially. 3rd is what I did to mine chopping the bbl back to 16" and boring the FSB all the way through. 4th is the 14x1LH adapter. 5th is the 24mm adapter. The adapters will have a clamp that attaches behind the FSB directly to the barrel. It will pilot off the sides of the FSB and cup the muzzle. Slot in the top for the sight tower. O.D. is roughly 1.125. It's pretty beefy...1"O.D. may be feasible. Looking at AK-74 brake (real 24mm one) looks much better than smaller 14mm AK-74 styled ones. Also the 24mm slotted hiders would look cool. Tony's hex-shark brake would be neat-o as well. Edited February 10, 2007 by dinzag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Still trying to solve the indexing issue. Possibly instead of an indexing nut, maybe a set screw coming down to top dead center that goes through the indexing notch on the brake. WOW the clamp-on adapters are going to be bulky! But I think the 24mm would look cleaner. The set screw indexing idea sounds like a winner. Larry PS: How far is the setback for your current set screw brake? I'm leaning toward this solution after seeing your options . . . but it seems that 1" setback is a long way to go. Edited February 10, 2007 by LESchwartz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
will36 0 Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) What are my options for a muzzle brake on my S-308 if I don't have a mill and lathe? 1) They make "pin-on" and "twist-lock" brakes for the SKS. Does anybody make something like this for the S-308? 2) Does anyone make a replacement FSB for the S-308 that has threads or a built-in brake? 3) What about cutting the muzzle cover off the FSB, drilling out the threads on an existing AK break, and then soldering it on? 4) Any other options that don't require a mill or lathe? thanks in advance, Larry AAOK (link on saiga homepage) seen this done on a AK this week, So I know it will work if you have about a 1/2 of barrel sticking out past the FSB. AAOK sells an AR to AK thread adaptor. 1/2 dia. they drilled the inside out a little under the OD of the barrel. put the barrel in ice for a hour and heated the adaptor up red hot with a torch ( overkill i think) then hammered it on with a socket. drilled a small hole in the adaptor and threaded it. Then screwed in a set screw past the threads. then used an AK 74 brake. they shot 60 + rounds thru it and it didnt fly off not sure how long the brake will stay tight without a retaining pin. Edited February 10, 2007 by will36 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted February 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 AAOK (link on saiga homepage) seen this done on a AK this week, So I know it will work if you have about a 1/2 of barrel sticking out past the FSB. AAOK sells an AR to AK thread adaptor. 1/2 dia. they drilled the inside out a little under the OD of the barrel. put the barrel in ice for a hour and heated the adaptor up red hot with a torch ( overkill i think) then hammered it on with a socket. drilled a small hole in the adaptor and threaded it. Then screwed in a set screw past the threads. then used an AK 74 brake. they shot 60 + rounds thru it and it didnt fly off not sure how long the brake will stay tight without a retaining pin. Neat idea. And it sounds llike it would be the way to go, if dinzig didn't already have a AK-74 solution . . . Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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