WHITE NOISE 0 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hello gentleman. I will be comming into a bit of dough (due to tax return) and it's allready burning a hole in my pocket. I have been looking at the Saiga 12. Does anyone know if RAA is importing an upgraded model. And if so, what are the upgrades? Is the S-12 better than a Benelli M-3. or M-2? This is hard trying to pick between the two. Any information pro or con would be much appreciated. Thanks guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Nothing else needs to be said Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Ok since Conju has let the cat outta the bag and all....unless your a class 3 with a demo letter I don't think you can have that S-12 but Tony can make yours rock in ways that those fancy Benellis can only dream http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm Another reputable builder to look up is Red Jacket Firearms http://www.redstick-firearms.com/ If your handy you can also build it up yourself, there is plenty of info on here and guys that are willing to help ya out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWmMNHSVR4I Offical video from the factory Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) I realized that the Saiga was something I was missing out on when I brought it up for discussion on other gun discussion boards. The idea of a compact, reliable, semi-auto, hi-cap magazine-fed shotgun just seems to tip people off. Somehow it gets to some kind of emotional level when the responses I got were mostly non-linear. I found that lots of people who consider a tube-fed, lever or pump action rifle to be a completely different class from a magazine-fed, semi-auto rifle don't have the same opinions when it comes to shotguns. That was a real head-scratcher for me. I still have pump action shotguns and don't expect I will be selling them off any time soon - but the Saiga is just so much better a weapon. I actually own a registered select fire MAC-10 in 45 ACP - with a registered suppressor for it - and feel the Saiga to be a better CQB firearm. Edited February 2, 2007 by MadMax Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WHITE NOISE 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) Thanks for your replies so far. And I agree with you MadMax. Folks that use lever 30.30's are not common umong those who choose hi-cap mag fed rifles. There are some, but for the most part the equation is: Mag fed=Zombie, end of the world scenario (of which I am an adherent) Edited February 2, 2007 by WHITE NOISE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 http://ncrr.net/IDPA/matchresults/index.html scroll down to Tactical Shotgun Match, the OPEN shooters were all shooting Saiga Shotguns. Auto's are mostly Remington 1100, Benelli, and SPAS-12 a few others, Pumps are the regular mostly 870s and Mossy's You can see TEAM Saiga pretty much rules this year and it's usually a 1,2,3,4 sweep for the Saigas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Thanks for your replies so far. And I agree with you MadMax. Folks that use lever 30.30's are not common umong those who choose hi-cap mag fed rifles. There are some, but for the most part the equation is: Mag fed=Zombie, end of the world scenario (of which I am an adherent) My first real hunting rifle was a lever action 30-30. Still have it and still use it . Maybe its just me but I like each type of gun I have for what it is and was developed for. Each gun has a time and a place to use it. Fact of the matter is I love my high cap mag guns because they are fun as hell to shoot. Knowing you have more firepower than hopefully you will ever need is an added bonus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I love that video !!!!!!!! I want in!!!!!!!!!! Question: do you really have to be a left handed shooter to shoot the Tromix special ? Cant us right handed guys have some fun???? What I love about that weapon is that it does not matter.....the shells dont even come close to the face.....they are tossed so far away! The saiga looks more fun than the crew served fun stick behind them. This reminds me... I need to file for my taxes and then call Tony!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Find one and lay down 5-10 rounds on something. Most likely you'll be hooked, I have several rifles but there's just something about my S12 that gets my blood pumping every time I take it out for a spin. It's just a really fun gun for devistation, growing in popularity for tactical shoots, and I would have to guess would be atleast an average shooter for sporting clays although it's a little hefty in that respect. Most people don't talk shit about guns they own, but you'll find there are very few complaints about the S12 on this board, probably less than on most other gun boards. Just my 2c Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaGroaner 2 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Sell you? Naw. Why would you want a semi-auto12 GA shotgun built on an utterly reliable AK action which accepts 2, 5, 8 and 10-round magazines? You just need a good pumpgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 The benefit of it being mag fed is that you can have different mags loaded with different ammo. So for home security, you could have a mag loaded with c.s. rounds, another loaded rubber buck, another loaded with beanbag, another loaded with 00 buck, another loaded with slugs and another loaded with tracer. That way, you can choose what you need at any given moment. Forget doing that with a tube fed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Sell you on the Saiga... hmmm... All great points above. I suppose my pic will explain the rest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 <---- How can you not love this? Johnny Gun...no you don't have to shoot the select-fire S-12 left-handed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 One deciding factor that no one seems to have mentioned yet is cost. A Benelli or even a Spas would run close to $1200 new the last time I looked. An unconverted Saiga should only cost you around $350 to about $400. This would give you about $800 you could use to completely customize the Saiga to your liking and come out with a faster reloading weapon then you would have with the tube fed shotguns. If you hooked up with Tony at Tromix, you would be getting a firearm by one of the recognized leaders in Saiga conversions and, on some of his models, you would be paying even less then the $1200. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I'm a strange person who isn't sure he'd go for a high cap Saiga shotgun mag over a tube mag, simply because of how much it would protrude for a mag its capacity, vs one that can be topped off. BUT - The detachable magazine is the only way to use the AK action, and its reliability is absolutely unequaled. That is why the S-12 is an excellent choice for personal defense and sport alike. The other advantage of the Saiga and its detachable mag is thoroughly exploited by Tromix - A tube fed shotgun needs a barrel at least as long as its mag. So an non-NFA 18" barrel would only allow you 6 shots. A 10 shot mag requires something like 26 or 28" barrel. With a Saiga 12, it's not so much that you can now get up to 10 rounds, it's the fact that you can get 10 rounds with an 18" barrel, a 10" barrel, a 6" barrel, or whatever you use. With a 10" barrel, which is what my preferred SBS would be, even 5rds, which is my preferred detachable shotgun mag size, would still be more than any tube fed SBS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax 0 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 One other point which has not been raised - which was the original; reason I started looking at the Saiga. I wanted a reliable, semi-auto shotgun that (without an NFA stamp) could be packed into the smallest envelope possible. I couldn't find any other available semi-auto shotgun which didn't have the recoil spring in the buttstock - so that limits their collapsability. SPAS-12's are few and expensive - specially when compared to the Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 another video to watch IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WHITE NOISE 0 Posted February 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm really moving toward the Saiga 12. I have two Saiga 7.62x39 rifles and know that eventually, that S-12 will be deamed a " destructive device" much like many other types of shotguns were back in the early 90's Soooo, it would make sense to get one now while I can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bugeye 2 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 <---- How can you not love this? Johnny Gun...no you don't have to shoot the select-fire S-12 left-handed. Thanks for re-assuring me on that point, Bob! I thought since America was so right wing the Russians might have taught everybody to shoot from the left! The beauty of the Saiga is that it does not matter if you shoot from the left. The shells are tossed so far away, they dont hit you in the face like many other weapons. I sometimes hit the guy in the next lane on the range with ejected shells. I need to make it to a TROMIX lead fest one day. It looks like a ........BLAST?! No wonder Tony is 4 months behind in his work. He is out having too much fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 "...eventually, that S-12 will be deamed a destructive device" ...I really doubt it, but of course it pays to be on the side of caution, right? Johhny...the next machine gun shoot is in March, I believe, in central Arkansas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) "...eventually, that S-12 will be deamed a destructive device" ...I really doubt it, but of course it pays to be on the side of caution, right? Johhny...the next machine gun shoot is in March, I believe, in central Arkansas. Central Arkansas where, Bob ???? You coming??? Woo-hoo !! Edited February 3, 2007 by Jeaux E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Same shoot, Joe. They have it every 6 months. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MadMax 0 Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 eventually, that S-12 will be deamed a " destructive device" The way I am looking at this is - if enough of us buy so many of these that they are no longer rare then the BATFE has to look at the fact that if they declare these to be DD's there is no longer any restriction on barrel length so there will be gazillions of 8" barreled Saigas all over the country - something that would make them even more uncomfortable. Yes, this thought process is an attempt to link the BATFE with some type of logic (albeit thin, somewhat fanciful logic) - and they have not been known for any type of logic in the past. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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