Horrible News

[BattleRifleG3 16]

There are gun laws and there are anti-gun laws. BIG difference.

 

Bill Ruger couldn't tell the difference, and wanted gun bans so that they would corner the market for the Mini-14. He later realized how deceived he was. Of course he deceived himself more than anyone else did.

 

I would be happy to write gun laws, such as ones that put someone in jail for criminally misusing a firearm, limit or prohibit access by non-citizens, and give LE the resources to fight the illegal trade of arms stolen or illegally imported for criminal use. Gun laws should also PROTECT the right to own and use guns by responsible citizens and enable them to use them better to improve public and personal safety.

 

Gun owners writing anti-gun laws, to give the government the right to gradually undermine the RKBA until it and the rest of the Constitution are meaningless, would be nothing but self-sabatoge.

Edited April 20, 2007 by BattleRifleG3

[MD_Willington 11]

Actually it does happen in Switzerland, and all other places in the world as well.

September 27 2001...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2539769.stm

 

Swiss man kills 14

A gunman has run amok in a central Switzerland government building, killing at least 14 people before turning the gun on himself.

 

 

 

 

Cho was fucking insane.. bottom line

[SuAside 2]

Actually it does happen in Switzerland

the Swiss still have an 8 time lower murderrate though.

 

and all other places in the world as well.

true true. i was kind of amused when i heard that "the USA has the highest rate of massmurders in the world". euhm, right.

 

i guess they actually meant "the highest rate of massmurders at schools in the western world". the sad thing is that no one bothers to correct them anymore when they say bullshit like that.

 

Cho was fucking insane.. bottom line

i don't know. that's kind of the easy way out, right?

 

"oh forget about it, he was insane."

i think that that is what we tell ourselves so we can sleep at night.

 

the truth is that humans are sophisticated but violent animals... always have been, and probably always will be.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

No one ever said freedom did not come with a price.

 

You do not hear about the Government Stazi like murders in countrys where only the government have guns!

But then again, that's not murder-it's government action!

[cma g21 3]

Interesing article by Fred Thompson:

 

http://abcradio.com/article.asp?id=389928&SPID=15663

 

Signs of Intelligence?

 

One of the things that's got to be going through a lot of peoples' minds now is how one man with two handguns, that he had to reload time and time again, could go from classroom to classroom on the Virginia Tech campus without being stopped. Much of the answer can be found in policies put in place by the university itself.

 

Virginia, like 39 other states, allows citizens with training and legal permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens. They walk, joke and rub shoulders everyday with people who responsibly carry firearms -- and are far safer than they would be in San Francisco, Oakland, Detroit, Chicago, New York City, or Washington, D.C., where such permits are difficult or impossible to obtain.

 

The statistics are clear. Communities that recognize and grant Second Amendment rights to responsible adults have a significantly lower incidence of violent crime than those that do not. More to the point, incarcerated criminals tell criminologists that they consider local gun laws when they decide what sort of crime they will commit, and where they will do so.

 

Still, there are a lot of people who are just offended by the notion that people can carry guns around. They view everybody, or at least many of us, as potential murderers prevented only by the lack of a convenient weapon. Virginia Tech administrators overrode Virginia state law and threatened to expel or fire anybody who brings a weapon onto campus.

 

In recent years, however, armed Americans -- not on-duty police officers -- have successfully prevented a number of attempted mass murders. Evidence from Israel, where many teachers have weapons and have stopped serious terror attacks, has been documented. Supporting, though contrary, evidence from Great Britain, where strict gun controls have led to violent crime rates far higher than ours, is also common knowledge.

 

So Virginians asked their legislators to change the university's "concealed carry" policy to exempt people 21 years of age or older who have passed background checks and taken training classes. The university, however, lobbied against that bill, and a top administrator subsequently praised the legislature for blocking the measure.

 

The logic behind this attitude baffles me, but I suspect it has to do with a basic difference in worldviews. Some people think that power should exist only at the top, and everybody else should rely on "the authorities" for protection.

 

Despite such attitudes, average Americans have always made up the front line against crime. Through programs like Neighborhood Watch and Amber Alert, we are stopping and catching criminals daily. Normal people tackled "shoe bomber" Richard Reid as he was trying to blow up an airliner. It was a truck driver who found the D.C. snipers. Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that civilians use firearms to prevent at least a half million crimes annually.

 

When people capable of performing acts of heroism are discouraged or denied the opportunity, our society is all the poorer. And from the selfless examples of the passengers on Flight 93 on 9/11 to Virginia Tech professor Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor who sacrificed himself to save his students earlier this week, we know what extraordinary acts of heroism ordinary citizens are capable of.

 

Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses -- and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all.

 

Whenever I've seen one of those "Gun-free Zone" signs, especially outside of a school filled with our youngest and most vulnerable citizens, I've always wondered exactly who these signs are directed at. Obviously, they don't mean much to the sort of man who murdered 32 people just a few days ago.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

hey tigerclaw, and those opposed to the management here. give it a rest, will ya. Im about tired of you people, myself.

 

the laws out there are YOUR FAULT for saying NO LAWS....I have news for you...there has to be SOME laws. go ahead and let the liberal idiots write them for us.....you are a REAL HELP to the cause.....

 

 

I am going to take this sort of shit less and less well, for lack of a better term.

 

Im tired of hearing "fuck you" to me and my friends. we have and always will, look out for what WE can do for the positive effect in america. what are YOU doing exactly? YOUR cause is lost. if you think they wont pass laws, or revoke then purify them, you must smoke crack or meth or something.

 

because you arent on MY SIDE.

 

you must be one of the ASSHOLES ive been talking about. it sure fucking sounds like it. I am not amused that there are a handful of you here now. why dont you listen to what the hell we are all saying for a change, and stop with the facist manipulation of the trends for your personal gain....yeh, you.

 

lets get this out in the open. i wont ban you. if you talk to my friends as some of you have been doing, you might discover this site unaccessable, however.....

 

 

THERE HAS TO BE A LAW. YOU FIGHT IT SO MUCH, THAT YOU CANT EVEN HELP MAKE THE NEW LAWS. YOU ARE WORTHLESS IN MY EYES. LOTS OF HELP YOU ARE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR EFFORTS.

 

I have red your responce, and I am still puzzled as to why are you so upset at me. I have never set "f u" to your friends, or to anyone else on the board, I never use explicits, in real life or otherwise, I was brought up a little different from that. From what I was taught, in every society, be it in USA or Russia or Honduras, the use of explicits is an indication of a total disrespect. I never did before and never will ever use explicits on a forum or in life.

To me "God Damn!!" is just as good a "Oh F...!!".

 

Now, where in the world you, Sir, got the idea that I oppose to management on this board? I do not recall to ever defy an order from the administrator. Have I asked an administartor to look at the issues before passing a judgement? Yes, I have. However, in the same letter to the administrator I wrote "I shall submit to whatever judgement you, Sir, shall deem just and fair." Does this sound like a Challenge or Defiance of the Administrator to you?

 

As far as what You can do for USA? Well, it is a really long list. Same as all the rest of us. Start from not thinking about yourselfs and your personal profits and think of the society as a whole, of a society of which you are but a part of. Think of the damage that megacorporations do to this country, since their loyalty is not to the stars and stripes, not to the land, not to the Constitution, but tho the profits. Start thinking about what it does to us when our jobs move to Puerto Rico, Mexico, India, China, or to Phillipines, where now, instead of the child sweatshops during dictatorship, we now have child sweatshops under democratic government. That is NOT an improvement, Sir.

As far as the incident goes. Think as to how many lonely people are in the USA, think of the verbal and mental abuse they suffer in school and college. Think of the lack of socialization that plagues our society.

I am NOT asking you to donate money, cuddle criminals, give up your guns and embrace the illegal and legal immigrants. In fact I tell you quite the opposite. Use your money to better your family and friends, keep criminals in jail, protect the free speech and right to bear arms, and close the borders except for the skilled and educated individuals without a criminal past.

What I am saying is that maybe we all should be a bit friendler and open to each other. That is all I am saying. I am saying that maybe mr Cho was not too far wrong on his opinions about his peers (private school and all) and the proliferance of drugs, alchohol sex and other vice on campus.

 

Now, Sir. You are obviously upset for some reason, as you write: "the laws out there are YOUR FAULT for saying NO LAWS....I have news for you...there has to be SOME laws. go ahead and let the liberal idiots write them for us.....you are a REAL HELP to the cause.....". You further write:"THERE HAS TO BE A LAW. YOU FIGHT IT SO MUCH, THAT YOU CANT EVEN HELP MAKE THE NEW LAWS. YOU ARE WORTHLESS IN MY EYES. LOTS OF HELP YOU ARE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR EFFORTS."

I supported Free Speech and Right to Arms ever since I came to USA. Do I think that nutcases should have no access to guns until they are healed? Yes. Do I think that a violent felon should have no access to guns until it is deemed that he is reabilitated? (Lets say 5 years after a crime with no other crime commited). YES. What laws am I fighting? What laws am I making? Sir, I am sorry, but this makes little sense... No disrespect meant.

Do I think that people should have a right to buy whatever they need up to and including 105mm howizers, if they want to spend money for them? Yes. I oppose political correctness, as it is an infringement on free speech. I oppose affirmative action, as it is an infringement on "all people are created equal",

I oppose gun bans, as criminals and opressors (see Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc) will have guns anyway, as will criminals. What laws are you, Sir, blaming me for? What cause do you claim that I do not support? I support MY cause.

I have MY own goals and ideas. I shall not discuss them here. However, I stand with you as long as our goals are the same. This, Sir, is one of postulates of Capitalism, it is called "Enlightened Self Interest". It is in MY interest

that jobs don't go overseas. It is in MY interest, the we, as people become more friendly and open. It is MY interest, that I do not have to spend 2 hours on the phone with my med insurance, since they refuse to pay for anything until I call and argue with them. It is MY interest that gasoline is cheap and air and water are clean. it is in MY interest that we close the borders. It is in MY interest that we control the corporations. It is in MY interest that Cops will be forced not only to the responcibility for their actions and decisions, but alsot that they would HAVE the OBLIGATION to assist us in trouble. It is in MY interest that we do away with Electorial College and limit monetary contributions to elections. These are MY interests. It is also my humble opinion that none of those interests are harmful to the USA or it's population. I see no reason why I have caused your ire. You, Sir, are an administrator on this board, and should be not only nonpartial in your judgements of the post, but also keep your temper under control, do not insult people who have not insulted you, and do not accuse people of something that they did NOT commit, Sir.

 

I do not accuse you of anything. I wish to understand what exactly I have said to provoke insults and explicits from you and to provoke accusations from you about some "laws that I want to let liberals make".

 

I have no wish or need to insult you or anyone else. As far as the VA Tech tragedy goes... all I am saying is that maybe we all shoudl take a step back, and take a look at our society and our people. This is not and ideology issue. This is a HUMAN issue. People who have someone, anyone to talk to, to open their soul to, and just simply to socialize around with do not go nuts.

Depression is NOT cured by an antidepressants. Check the statistics. Cho is a murderer - no questions asked. Cho is insane - no questions asked. Cho's insanity does not excuses his murder - no questions asked. However, if we look at the pattern of each school and college shooting, we will see that the culprit is rarely nonintelligent, that he is ALWAYS a loner without any friends. Often very dissillusioned with the society and humanity, and often was a target of mental and emotional abuse either at home or by his peers. Teenagers can be VERY cruel - I suggest you read "Lord of the Flies" to get basic idea. People go postal in USA with an alarming rate. It has NOTHING to do with gun availability, that much is for sure. We need to ask "WHAT IS THE REASON?" This question is especially important if you are a supporter of your right to bear guns. You see, if these incidents will repeat again and again, and they will, since human interaction is becoming rather scares, the anti gun crowd will get more and more support onto their side and we ALL WILL LOSE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

Feminization of our society with constant searches and supervision and snitching at each other is not an option - it will turn this country into a huge jail. Taking away our guns will only make criminals bolder, those guys hae NOT problems getting weapons, up to and including M72 LAW. I would say that we all NEED a CCW permit. It may not guarantee your safety in a conflict, sure. However, it may DETERE the conflict itself. However, maybe, just maybe, when we see someone who just looks like his spirits are low, maybe if we smile, say "Hello" and GENUENLY attempt to carry a conversation with such person, maybe another tragedy like this is avoided.

We no longer have a luxury of having "my home is my castle", we live to close to each other. We live in the SOCIETY. A highly technological and integrated society. We are losing the human factor everywhere. It is my humble opinion that therein lies ONE (just one of several) roots of the problem. We should not heal the symptoms (by taking away the gun rights, or putting to jail everyone who writes a horror story), we should heal the root, simply by becoming more empathic to our fellow citizens.

 

Thank you for your time, Sir.

 

With all respects...

 

Tigerclaw

 

P.S. The copy of this letter will be posted on the message board, as per your wish to have an open discussion.

[Bvamp 604]

half of what you are referring to is meant for other ears, and I stated that in my harsh reply.

 

as for what you were taught and what I was taught, they were similar things. I have sinse discovered that being a nice guy and being generous and all that fun stuff gets you nowhere in this world. Ive had loads of things happen to me because of being that way most of my life, and from the places and people ive been to and met along the way.

 

what you see is a product of all of that.

 

It is incorrect to think that I was only addressing you, and in whole.

 

and stop calling me sir, its ben.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

half of what you are referring to is meant for other ears, and I stated that in my harsh reply.

 

as for what you were taught and what I was taught, they were similar things. I have sinse discovered that being a nice guy and being generous and all that fun stuff gets you nowhere in this world. Ive had loads of things happen to me because of being that way most of my life, and from the places and people ive been to and met along the way.

 

what you see is a product of all of that.

 

It is incorrect to think that I was only addressing you, and in whole.

 

and stop calling me sir, its ben.

 

Hello, Ben.

I called you Sir. Because I did not know your name, neither first nor last. Therefore, to address you in any other way would be inpolite.

I do not think that we should all be "nice guys and generous". I think we should be friendly and more open to people and to each other. Goodwill, after all, is the best investment. Costs you nothing and can gain you a loyal friend.

I won't even mention that less social izolations means less broken lives, less broken spirits and less chances that someone will go postal.

I expect my boss to be a jerk to me - he is here to get the maximum out of me for the less money. I expect my coworkers to snitch on me - it is nothing personal, thats how you advance, it is not only WHAT you know, is how good you can kiss people's feet and behinds. However, outside of work, I try, I really do, to be friendly to the people, especially to those who seem like they need it. Long time ago, a teacher had done it for me. It is my duty to repay for his kindness. You expect negatives in the world, and, unlike how it is in electricity negative will come to you. You expect positive things, it will happen. Whatever sort of emotional energy you send into the world, that what comes back to you. I know it sounds pretty New Age, however, that is just the way things are... IMHO.

I misunderstood your post, appearantly, maybe because it started with "Hey, Tigerclaw" that I took everything you wrote as being directed at me. I presume that I have stated my believes clearly in the preceeding post and that

we can avoid any problems and/or misunderstandings in the future.

 

I wish you a pleasant weekend, Ben

[Gaddis 1,689]

he just listened too much to skynyrd

 

Heh, no doubt "Mr. Saturday Night Special" was written by Mr. Van Zant after he probably got caught slipping his pecker into one of his Southern fan's girlfriends in some hotel room somewhere.

 

Sad thing is I remember seeing pictures of those hypocritical fuckers "Lynyrd Skynyrd" sitting in a hotel room somewhere passing around a bottle of Jack Daniels while screwing around with a loaded Ruger Blackhawk (probably in an old issue of Hit Parader).

 

Jeeze, did I *really* just admit to reading Hit Parader?

 

Real fine example of safe gun handling there, boys. If the plane crash wouldn't have taken most of them out...

[DocV 0]

I've though about this for awhile. There is an aspect of this situation that bothers me. Let me preface my remarks by saying that:

 

1. I have no clue how I would have reacted. I would sincerely hope and pray my training and mindset would kick in to gear.

 

2. No one knows exactly what went on in that classroom.

 

It concerns me that 29 young, for the most part healthy, adults allowed themselves to be shot. Granted there is never hope for the first few victims in an ambush but have we bred the survival instinct out of our children?

 

Is there that much of a generational difference between the students of Virginia Tech and the passengers of Flight 93?

 

Would a similar cohort of young adults in Israel have reacted the same way? Or, would there be 4 or 5 dead and a bloody pile of rags that used to be the gunman? How about in Russia? Palestine? Korea? China?

 

Has our nanny society so warped our thinking that no one is capable of responding to adversity?

 

I'm not blaming any victim for dying. Cho was a lunatic. And, as we know now, there were some heroic actions including those of a professor who had been a Holocaust survivor. I am questioning the responses of our young people and asking if it would have been different it other parts of the world. Why do you think the Bad Guys use car bombs and dynamite vests in places like Israel? Because a lone gunman would be a bloody grease spot if he tried something like this at University of Tel Aviv.

 

 

I teach my children (2 boys and a girl) that they are never to start a fight, that they are not to be bullies, braggarts, or pests (doesn't always work! ). But never, ever, ever allow someone to lay a hand on them or hurt them.

 

Walk away if you can. Run away if you have to. But if cornered, or caught with no escape, fight! Granted, I am talking about grade school children and school yard conflicts, but I'm hoping it's a lesson they'll take into adulthood.

 

DocV

[getitat 609]

Interesing article by Fred Thompson:

 

http://abcradio.com/article.asp?id=389928&SPID=15663

 

Signs of Intelligence?

 

Virginia, like 39 other states, allows citizens with training and legal permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens. They walk, joke and rub shoulders everyday with people who responsibly carry firearms -- and are far safer than they would be in San Francisco, Oakland, Detroit, Chicago, New York City, or Washington, D.C., where such permits are difficult or impossible to obtain.

 

Hello

There is currently a bill sailing through the Texas legislature that would prevent employers from restricting legal firearms from being locked in a registered CHL holders vehicle at work. As long as the parking lot is seperate from the actual workplace, the employee would be able to have his weapon at least available to him to and from work, which obviously, is why we obtained CHL permits in the first place.

I don't think it would apply to schools, however. The CHL lawbook specifically prohibits the carrying of weapons at schools, organized sporting events, courthouses, etc.

However, I work in a refinery. It's pretty common knowledge that there are currently no weapons allowed in any refinery or chemical plant, and that includes the employee parking lots. Seems like a pretty piss-poor security arrangement to me, when a gunman could walk into a plant and basically be the only armed person around. Not a good scenario, in these days of suicidal Jihadists and such.

I don't believe even an armed person or people could stroll through a refinery or petrochem plant and scare the shit out of many, I would venture to say there are some serious 'nad's in the sacks of some of these individuals who work here and elsewhere, (lotsa Vet's...) but still, why leave that door open?

 

Hopefully, this bill will become law, and other States will see the light. Now is not the time to dis-arm us, or make us criminals for standing up for ourhard-won rights!

 

Respectfully posted,

Guido2 in Houston

[Koliadko 207]

I've though about this for awhile. There is an aspect of this situation that bothers me. Let me preface my remarks by saying that:

 

1. I have no clue how I would have reacted. I would sincerely hope and pray my training and mindset would kick in to gear.

 

2. No one knows exactly what went on in that classroom.

 

It concerns me that 29 young, for the most part healthy, adults allowed themselves to be shot. Granted there is never hope for the first few victims in an ambush but have we bred the survival instinct out of our children?

 

Is there that much of a generational difference between the students of Virginia Tech and the passengers of Flight 93?

 

Would a similar cohort of young adults in Israel have reacted the same way? Or, would there be 4 or 5 dead and a bloody pile of rags that used to be the gunman? How about in Russia? Palestine? Korea? China?

 

Has our nanny society so warped our thinking that no one is capable of responding to adversity?

 

I'm not blaming any victim for dying. Cho was a lunatic. And, as we know now, there were some heroic actions including those of a professor who had been a Holocaust survivor. I am questioning the responses of our young people and asking if it would have been different it other parts of the world. Why do you think the Bad Guys use car bombs and dynamite vests in places like Israel? Because a lone gunman would be a bloody grease spot if he tried something like this at University of Tel Aviv.

 

 

I teach my children (2 boys and a girl) that they are never to start a fight, that they are not to be bullies, braggarts, or pests (doesn't always work! ). But never, ever, ever allow someone to lay a hand on them or hurt them.

 

Walk away if you can. Run away if you have to. But if cornered, or caught with no escape, fight! Granted, I am talking about grade school children and school yard conflicts, but I'm hoping it's a lesson they'll take into adulthood.

 

DocV

 

 

Another good parent. I've taught my three sons the same. Never start a fight. But you always have a right to defend yourself. Always.