mccumber1916 1 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 mike... will the catch lips on the mag be metal due to the extra weight? it seems to me the plastic lips will wear quickly but you planned so well it seems... you probably planned ahead here to Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 I think it sounds perfect! The ability to handle 3" shells would be nice, but I also consider this a "fun-gun" accessory as opposed to something tactically effective and would therefore rarely need to use 3" shells. I think I asked this somewhere else, but will a stock fold with the mag loaded? They very most side folders won't work. I don't know of one that will but there might be one out there somewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 Between 2 /34 and 3 inch shells well not all 2 3/4 are the same legnth so there needs to be some tollerances because brand "a" shells and "b" shells are not the same size. Got to run I keep this in mind. I made sure that it would handle the longer 2 3/4 like the 8 pellet Speer Lawman. Even if I don't try to modify it to 3inch, it should handle basiclly all the 2 3/4 stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 Mike,so have you done much testing for function other than hand cycling? Sounds like you got the design worked out.Oh,and i have to complement you on being/sounding more proffesional,i think it will go a long ways selling your product..... there wasnt one cuss word in your post I am going to do my best to bite my foul tounge and not give in to anything provoking. I have done quite a bit of test firing. At this point I don't really want to wear the mag much more because it is the only prototype I have right now. I will get some live fire vids up though eventually. If I decide to make a 3inch prototype I will film every test fire I do with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 (edited) Personaly I'd release the 2 3/4 as is. The only competiton is in the less plinkable 3" and more expensive to buy and fill. You should look into adding 3" capability after you've sold a gross or turned a profit or some similar landmark. I seem to remember you being "all in" on this project so why not start recouping that asap? The other thing I'd say is that what will help sell your mags are demo videos where you abuse the thing and it keeps going, and where you load it up with random brands and sources of shells to show it can work with a wide variety of shells. If it can't do those things, well... make it look pretty and pump the soundtrack from the matrix in the background (and best of luck with that ). It was my original plan to get it out as soon as possible and see about the 3 inch later to cover cost like you said. But if I did make one later I would have to make a whole new mold, very expensive and time consuming. Also the people that bought a 2 3/4 only might feel a little cheated because a drum that would take both would basically be the same price as they paid for 2 3/4 only. I am deep in. At this point a couple extra $1000 won't make a difference. The big problem I see with trying to change design is time involved. It is hard to say what can happen in a few short weeks it would add to pre-production time. On the torture issue. I couldn't torture the prototype because the production will be much, much stronger. I do plan to do a rigerous torture test with no doctoring up. I plan to torture one or 2 intill they fail. I was thinking of one tortured out of the gun and one tortured in the gun. If I have to bust them into peices. I want to see what it takes as well. Edited April 19, 2007 by Mike Davidson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 (edited) If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. Edited April 19, 2007 by Mike Davidson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mccumber1916 1 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 (edited) If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. a damn good idea... like the canteen holster for army web belts that would also help the droppage factor... and appease another members request Edited April 19, 2007 by mccumber1916 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. Maybe make that available later as an accessory...try and keep the price as low as possible for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. a damn good idea... like the canteen holster for army web belts that would also help the droppage factor... and appease another members request The pouch would have to be something for later. I have my hands so full with the drum and my tree service that I don't have time right now. It might be something that one of you design after they are released if I am still to busy. I have a pretty full plate right now and probably will for awhile after release. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2007 If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. Maybe make that available later as an accessory...try and keep the price as low as possible for now. Do we have good timing or what Pointer. It must be something we drank while at Hara Arena. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Q: Will the price go up if both 2 3/4 - 3 can be taken? Or will it still be reasonably priced? 2) Q: Will the spring tension get weak if fully loaded for an extended period of time? That's it for now. Thanks. The first question I just covered above. I haven't been able to see how the spring will be affected yet because I haven't had one for what I would consider an extended period. When I start production I plan to load one and keep it loaded, and check it periodically for at least a yr. I am sure that they spring will be effected over time but can't say how much for sure. I eventually plaln on selling extra spring though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 I imagine most would be content with one cycling 2 3/4 but....don't some of the Tromix shorties require the more powerful 3" to function reliably? ...oh, and hurry on that patent... I think it is the extra powder in 3inch that give reliability. USAS-12 only fire 2 3/4 and I heard that they need high brass for reliable function, but am not sure myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Originally I was planning on getting the 2 3/4 only out and test one for both later. I might reconsider this though. There's now a race to market, so stick with your original plan. The risk factor of trying to accommodate both is too high. Better to have one that you know works than be waiting on one that might not. This is what I originally thought. I felt it was a race before I knew there was competion due to the political situation we are in. I am actually releived there is competition. For one, now I'm not the only one. 2, some originally thought a drum around $200 was high and now it is cheap next to $320 and mine just got a lot lighter too next to a metal one. 3, if I don't do a 3inch right now people will still have an option that want 3 inch over 2 3/4 and the same for people that would prefer a metal mag. I do feel that my product has a lot more appeal that the other though. I feel a lot of people will wait to get mine. The other is supposed to be ready in around 30 to 45 days. I can't bet that if he meets his dead line. But I would say that a lot of people that buy his to tide themselfs over will only by one and wait for mine before bying others or even sell his once mine comes out. A lot to steculate. I don't know how many man hrs it will take to make one of his but I am certain that his vs my production time will be comparable to hand fileing vs. a grinding wheel. Unless he has an ungodly amount of cnc equipment I would bet he will be severly back logged. I do wish him the best but I feel I have a lot of advantages he doesn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Maybe make that available later as an accessory...try and keep the price as low as possible for now. Do we have good timing or what Pointer. It must be something we drank while at Hara Arena. Yea,its gettin spooky,thats twice now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 It would be great if they were built like the Chinese AK drum mags. They would open from the back and could be loaded with the cover open. Would have a button on them so you could release the spring tension for better reliability. They would have a mechanism on the back of the drum to rewind the spring. This would truly be ideal. I wish it was something like that but it isn't. It can't be loaded from the back or the spring tension can't be released and rewond. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Mike D. you still alive dude ? Still kick'in, . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 mike...will the catch lips on the mag be metal due to the extra weight? it seems to me the plastic lips will wear quickly but you planned so well it seems... you probably planned ahead here to If possible I am going to have metal insert molded into the product. I am trying to make this the best I can. I do plan for it to be a fun thing more than anything but I want it to be the best, reliable, strong, hardcore fun thing I can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Sup Mike, You said you had a video floating around somewhere. And do you have any pictires to hold us down? I'll take two. Than you very much. Can't wait. I will repost the video in a little bit and post a link. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mccumber1916 1 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 mike...will the catch lips on the mag be metal due to the extra weight? it seems to me the plastic lips will wear quickly but you planned so well it seems... you probably planned ahead here to If possible I am going to have metal insert molded into the product. I am trying to make this the best I can. I do plan for it to be a fun thing more than anything but I want it to be the best, reliable, strong, hardcore fun thing I can. i have NO DOUBT that it will be the best available unit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Answers to Rolling Thunder's questions. I didn't want to quote the whole thread. I think I coved most of your questions. Your #2, Speed of feeding. I haven't been able to test it but plan to have a full auto owner see if it handles it. I am betting it will. Tony's FA model fires around 800 rpm. That is around 13.3 rounds per second. I have toaken the feed lips off so the mag could dump and it will empty 20 rds in just under 1 second. Granted, this is the round coming straight up and out. It will no doubt add time by the round riding the feedlips out vs. straight out the top. But i think it will be within the time needed for reliable feed. I just have no way to test or measure it accurately right now. #4 question. The hand fits the mag suprisingly well. You can analize my vid when I post it. I have an average size hand. If I make it hold 3 inch it will add a little to the thinkness and multiplied by heavier 3inch ammo wouldn't help either. Let me know if I over looked something that I didn't answer of yours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Some things I forgat to go over last night. If you remember from prior post. My mag hold 20rds but you can't load it on a closed bolt. As of right now I don't have something worked out to make it work with one of Jeric's LRBHO. Would be nice since the bolt has to be opened to load with 20rds. 19 goes in easy on a closed bolt. Also I don't have a name for the drum like the other. I don't think I need something fancy to call it. It is what it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Anybody have any good names for the drum to throw at Mike D. for him to think about ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 (edited) Here is the link to the video I previosly posted. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7jOE5Bl1xOw Eventually I will post a live fire video and remove the bag. The bag makes it look a lot bigger than it is. Edited April 20, 2007 by Mike Davidson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Here is the link to the video I previosly posted. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7jOE5Bl1xOw Hell Yeah!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Anybody have any good names for the drum to throw at Mike D. for him to think about ? How about Helia or something? Am I on my own on this one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 Anybody have any good names for the drum to throw at Mike D. for him to think about ? D = "Delta" "D" for drum. How about Delta Mag? Wonder if you'd get sued? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philg80 1 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. YOU'RE Welcome!!! I feel cheated though.. You should have loaded that damned heavy beta mag and shot a tree down with it like I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 20, 2007 Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 jeese, i guess im the only one who has "tree cutting" down to 15 rounds....but then again, that is heat for my house, too. not just a target.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 If 2 3/4" is ready to go, then let it fly. It is an easy thing to load a stick mag with 3" if they were a needed item for some special situation. In the academic world it is said, "Publish or Perish". The best route for you seems to be get on the market and add options later. You could always add a nice carry case like the Beta mag has. Will your spring be similiar to the Beta Mag? I have been very satified with that design. Best of luck as we patiently wait. I have thought of custom carry pouches. I think it would be nice if you could leave it in the pouch while in the gun. Something that would detach from your belt or vest easy. I'm not sure what the spring is like in the beta mag. I used to own one but never checked it out that close or even used it for that matter while I owned it. YOU'RE Welcome!!! I feel cheated though.. You should have loaded that damned heavy beta mag and shot a tree down with it like I did. I got the beta c-mag from Phil. I was forced to sell it to help fund this project. Along with my Colt. It was quite a sting. But now we will all have a different tree removing drum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted April 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2007 I have a question someone might be able to answer for me. I have looked around a lot and can't find out how many us part the drum will count as. It has a least 2, the body and what you would call the follower. Do you think the back cover would be considered the floor plate? Anybody have the answer to this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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