Has anyone ever been prosecuted for not having the right part count (9

[gjj 0]

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for this law? Also, it seems like it deals with the MANUFACTURE not POSSESSION. So, once the changes have been made, there does not seem to be a prohibition on having the weapon.

 

Any legal experts?????

 

The Imported Parts Law(1990)

178.39 otherwise known as 922® 10 Foreign parts law on semiauto Rifles & Shotguns

http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.html

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

( The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution

by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of

testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the

provisions of Sec. 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

© For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

 

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates

Reply With Quote

 

P.S. I am not suggesting breaking the law. Just understanding what the law is...

[csspecs 1,987]

Your right, there is nothing about possession.

 

As for the idea that you don't need to follow something because no one has been arrested for it, ask yourself "Do I want to be the first one?"

 

It's not hard to meet parts count if you are converting to a pistol grip style rifle because you need all the parts anyway.

[micah360 6]

I've never heard of anyone being busted for 922. I always see AK's for sale at gun shows that don't have the required parts. Last show there was a Maadi for sale with not one US part on it. When you talk to the dealers, they don't seem to give 2 shits. There have to be so many AKs out there that are "illegal".

 

But... I always go out of my way (and spend the xtra $$) to make sure I have my count right.

Edited April 24, 2007 by micah360

[BobAsh 582]

"But... I always go out of my way (and spend the xtra $$) to make sure I have my count right"

 

...this is what defines you as a responsible gun owner, imo.

[MrTuffPaws 2]

"But... I always go out of my way (and spend the xtra $$) to make sure I have my count right"

 

...this is what defines you as a responsible gun owner, imo.

 

Or a sheep that follows needless laws that do nothing to limit the effectiveness of a gun.

[BobAsh 582]

lol @ law-abiding=sheep.

[micah360 6]

Very needless.... that's why you've never heard of anyone being busted on it.

[scoutjoe 276]

Very needless.... that's why you've never heard of anyone being busted on it.

 

but sadly its still a law..more of a hoop ya have to jump through is the way i looked at it

[Skull 0]

"But... I always go out of my way (and spend the xtra $$) to make sure I have my count right"

 

...this is what defines you as a responsible gun owner, imo.

Or a sheep that follows needless laws that do nothing to limit the effectiveness of a gun.

Perhaps. We all must live with our own conscience. I'm no good at lying, and since I have to take a polygraph once-in-awhile, I figure I'll try my best to be legal.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Skull

[Vermiform 26]

"But... I always go out of my way (and spend the xtra $$) to make sure I have my count right"

 

...this is what defines you as a responsible gun owner, imo.

 

Or a sheep that follows needless laws that do nothing to limit the effectiveness of a gun.

 

 

I think "sheep" would be a very poor choice of words given what we use the term "sheep" for in the gun owning, pro-Second Ammendment community. A good majority of us on this forum follow the law in regards to 922R and "SHEEP" we are not. After all, we are all here talking about "scary black guns" that we OWN. Were I you, I would re-think your statement or suffer being called a fucking asshole.............

Edited April 25, 2007 by Vermiform

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

"But... I always go out of my way (and spend the xtra $$) to make sure I have my count right"

 

...this is what defines you as a responsible gun owner, imo.

 

Or a sheep that follows needless laws that do nothing to limit the effectiveness of a gun.

 

 

I think "sheep" would be a very poor choice of words given what we use the term "sheep" for in the gun owning, pro-Second Ammendment community. A good majority of us on this forum follow the law in regards to 922R and "SHEEP" we are not. After all, we are all here talking about "scary black guns" that we OWN. Were I you, I would re-think your statement or suffer being called a fucking asshole.............

That's kind of unkind.

[Skull 0]

That's kind of unkind.

Well, there's history there, between the who-cares and the maybe-it's-a-good-idea camps. So, I'll agree the reaction seems extra-strength, but at least it's not just out of the clear blue sky.

[gjj 0]

Relax.

 

It is a dumb law that has the odd effect of benefiting American gunmakers. It does not make the world any safer and is a tax on American gunowners. The chances of getting busted on this law are right up there with getting:

 

1. Eaten by a great white shark

2. Winning the lottery.

3. kidnapped by aliens.

[MrTuffPaws 2]

That's kind of unkind.

 

Nah, my mother has called me that before. Though if I ever meet Vermiform in person, I am going to take a good long stare right into his eyes and go BBBBAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[busy_squirrel 1]

And so devolves another thread...

[MrTuffPaws 2]

And so devolves another thread...

 

 

That happens a lot around here lol

[Vermiform 26]

I didn't mean it that harsh at all. I guess now when I re-read it, it sounds like I'm going off on MrToughPaws. I was trying to make a point but that last sentence I typed really doesn't convey my tone.

 

I dunno, imagine me and MrToughPaws and a few friends drinking beer and shooting pool. Now imagine me saying that with a sarcastic tone and smiling when I say it.

 

I really should re-read shit before I hit the post button. Sorry for sounding like an ass MrToughPaws.

[vzagumennyy 0]

it's one of those things....personally i had the damn thing, but just like california's gun laws....I think it's better to vote and do something about it than just bitch, never vote in your life and be satisfied with having a large capacity mag because u got it someplace and u haven't been caught with it.

 

-BUT it's one of those things where if they REALLY WANNA be an ass....well they have something to harass you on.

[mini14jac 1]

I've had the same thoughts, but I did the parts count dance in the end.

 

To me, this ranks right up there with full auto, short barrel, and suppressor laws.

 

While I may think they are stupid laws, I'm bound as a Christian to obey them.

 

Besides with my luck I'd be in the hospital from the shark bite, when they found a strange implant in my neck, just

as I realized from watching television that I have the winning lottery ticket, when my wife calls to tell me the ATF is at my house, collecting all my guns......

 

I've been living this life too long to take stupid chances.

[gjj 0]

You are not bound as a Christian to obey bad laws. Who told you that?

 

I am going to obey this stupid law. Just like I obey the other stupid laws that are against the constitution and my right to keep and bear arms. Almost all of these laws are an infringement specifically prohibited by the 2nd ammendment. I am chosing to do this. I am not morally obligated.

[Skull 0]

You are not bound as a Christian to obey bad laws. Who told you that?

I know where he's coming from. It's a fairly common interpretation of the passage "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, but render unto God that which is God's".

 

I, myself, do not believe that I am bound as a Christian to abide by laws which are stupid/illegitimate/bad. I believe "Caesar" is not entitled to my obedience in these matters, and therefore I need not "render" it to "him".

 

I am going to obey this stupid law. Just like I obey the other stupid laws that are against the constitution and my right to keep and bear arms. Almost all of these laws are an infringement specifically prohibited by the 2nd ammendment. I am chosing to do this. I am not morally obligated.

This is my thinking exactly.

[vzagumennyy 0]

being a christain has nothing to do with it. 'cause then what happens when you're in china? or say a few years ago anywhere in old USSR? the "LAW" said u couldn't be a christian. so....then what? or how 'bout in old OLD days when the Local king got to bang the f*** out of your bride before u did because that was the LAW. or do u think that the old "king kisses the bride bullshit stemmed from nothing? AMERICA was founded on the constitution, alas no longer is it even close. yes the second ammendment states our right shall not be infringed in any way. but hey, shit happens.

 

BUT that's not what the forum is about. the discussion is about anybody being prosecuted for 922r compliance. Personaly...i've never heard of it, BUT i have heard a few days ago about a couple prison gaurds from hawaii getting tossed in jail for "buying a part that would make their ar-15 capable of full-auto"....personally i think thats bullshit too. now we can be presecuted for PARTS? holy shit.....what about all those folk who build romanian ak's and THEY buy the complete rifle demilled, fire control and all....do we have ANY privacy?

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

"do we have ANY privacy?"

 

The only thought that I will add is in regards to this question. You only have the privacy that you afford yourself through due diligence. Anything posted on the internet can and will be used against you. Anything that you send a friend in an e-mail can and will be used against you. Anything that you throw in the trash without being shredded can and will be used against you. Anything that you say in a telephone conversation can and will be used against you. It is up to each of us not to be an easy target for identity thieves, the government, or anyone else. I follow a few simple ruiles and have never had a problem. Friends didn't and they have. Nuff said. Hope I don't sound paranoid.

[paternoster2012 0]

being a christain has nothing to do with it. 'cause then what happens when you're in china? or say a few years ago anywhere in old USSR? the "LAW" said u couldn't be a christian. so....then what? or how 'bout in old OLD days when the Local king got to bang the f*** out of your bride before u did because that was the LAW. or do u think that the old "king kisses the bride bullshit stemmed from nothing? AMERICA was founded on the constitution, alas no longer is it even close. yes the second ammendment states our right shall not be infringed in any way. but hey, shit happens.

 

BUT that's not what the forum is about. the discussion is about anybody being prosecuted for 922r compliance. Personaly...i've never heard of it, BUT i have heard a few days ago about a couple prison gaurds from hawaii getting tossed in jail for "buying a part that would make their ar-15 capable of full-auto"....personally i think thats bullshit too. now we can be presecuted for PARTS? holy shit.....what about all those folk who build romanian ak's and THEY buy the complete rifle demilled, fire control and all....do we have ANY privacy?

 

well look on the bright side, atleast it is keeping a very few manufacturing jobs from being outsourced overseas

[gjj 0]

Dude, what the heck are you doing in your avatar? Looks weird.

[rocinante 100]

Where that law would be a worry would be if you got into a beef with the law it would be another charge they can throw at you. We have a gazillion laws and a lot of them are used as accessory type penalties to tack on to the main offense to have the case have more gravity or at least hang the offender up on technicalities.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

In all honesty that US made parts law is really stupid and bogus. Made to protect US gun manufacturers from being put out of business by a foreign companies who deliver just as good of weapons for half the price. Same reason for Importation guns ban. I digress however. You see, the cops ain't going to force you to dissassmble your Saiga to check if you have US made FCG or not? However, when they DO come after you, for any reason, they will make sure to go after you on that charge too. Makes it wonderful for the propaganda machine: Not only did such and such person was an extremist gun nut, but he also broke the law about imported guns. (For an average Joe the dumb, this will make you sound like you had a bunch of Russian, Chinese and Iraqy made guns in your basement), great for demonisation, and anyone who would say a word to your defense immediately comes under fire as "protecting a person who breaks the gun laws". Nobody is going to come and just out of the blue dissassemble your rilfe and count the parts. However, if they nab you for something else, then they will make sure to check that too. Better be on a safe side and dont give "da man" the satisfaction.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

being a christain has nothing to do with it. 'cause then what happens when you're in china? or say a few years ago anywhere in old USSR? the "LAW" said u couldn't be a christian. so....then what? or how 'bout in old OLD days when the Local king got to bang the f*** out of your bride before u did because that was the LAW. or do u think that the old "king kisses the bride bullshit stemmed from nothing? AMERICA was founded on the constitution, alas no longer is it even close. yes the second ammendment states our right shall not be infringed in any way. but hey, shit happens.

 

BUT that's not what the forum is about. the discussion is about anybody being prosecuted for 922r compliance. Personaly...i've never heard of it, BUT i have heard a few days ago about a couple prison gaurds from hawaii getting tossed in jail for "buying a part that would make their ar-15 capable of full-auto"....personally i think thats bullshit too. now we can be presecuted for PARTS? holy shit.....what about all those folk who build romanian ak's and THEY buy the complete rifle demilled, fire control and all....do we have ANY privacy?

 

Well, welcome to USA, brother. With the domestic surveilance program in full swing and the sheeple bleeting in their eagerness to give up their and yours rights for the illusion of protection you ain't got NOTHING.

 

"Appearing in space, I'm looking down on you

My laser strafes everything you do.

You think you've private lives. Think nothing of a kind

There is no true escape, I'm watching all the time

I'm made of metal. My circuits gleam

I am protector and I'll keep this country clean...

There is nothing you can do about

Are exposed

I will report your every thought

To the power drone."

 

Judas Priest - "Electric Eye".

 

They wrote it back in 1987. Scary, no?

[mini14jac 1]

being a christain has nothing to do with it.

You are not bound as a Christian to obey bad laws. Who told you that?

 

You guys don't know your Bible very well.

 

Yes, we are to obey bad laws.

Immoral laws? No.

(If the king tries to bed my bride, he'll have to pry my gun from my cold, dead hands first.)

 

As a Christian I'm bound to obey the laws of the government.

It's a concept that runs through the Old and New Testaments, but Paul explains it pretty well in Romans:

1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

Romans 13:1-5 NIV

 

 

If I'm really a follower of Christ, I'm to live at peace with all men. I'm to obey laws that aren't immoral.

(Again, use the Bible to determine what is immoral.)

Just so you know, there are still countries where it's illegal to be a Christian.

Three guys were just butchered in Turkey, by Islamists, for publishing Bibles.

Where the laws are immoral, you are bound by God's law, not man's.

 

I can't find anything in the Bible that would lead me to believe that having a minimum U.S. parts count is immoral, but you guys do as you please.

 

Law abiding gun owners get slammed every time an idiot breaks the law.

Each time a doofus decides to take the law into his own hands, we all pay the price.

You should choose your battles carefully.

 

If you don't like the laws, write your representatives. Run for office.

Give money to Pro-gun candidates.

Join the GOA, the NRA, or another Pro-gun group.

Don't just start breaking the laws because you think they are stupid.

 

A sawed-off gun barrel got a guy's pregnant wife shot by the Feds, (Ruby Ridge) and brought a world of hurt on him.

The Branch Dividians were screwed up, but "rumors" of machine guns were all the Feds needed to come calling.

 

Truthfully, if the ATF is ever looking inside your gun, you are already in a world of hurt.

Either because you've broken the law in a big way, or somebody is out to get you.

Even if your gun is completely legal, if they end up going through your stuff, the evening news will be talking about your "Assault Weapon", your arsenal, your "machine gun" and your ammo stockpiles.

More than likely, your goose will be cooked by that time.

 

Yes, most gun laws are stupid.

(Short barrels, suppressors, full auto, etc.)

 

And yes, I'll obey every one of them.

Edited May 1, 2007 by mini14jac

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

being a christain has nothing to do with it.

You are not bound as a Christian to obey bad laws. Who told you that?

 

You guys don't know your Bible very well.

 

Yes, we are to obey bad laws.

Immoral laws? No.

(If the king tries to bed my bride, he'll have to pry my gun from my cold, dead hands first.)

 

As a Christian I'm bound to obey the laws of the government.

It's a concept that runs through the Old and New Testaments, but Paul explains it pretty well in Romans:

1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

Romans 13:1-5 NIV

 

 

If I'm really a follower of Christ, I'm to live at peace with all men. I'm to obey laws that aren't immoral.

(Again, use the Bible to determine what is immoral.)

Just so you know, there are still countries where it's illegal to be a Christian.

Three guys were just butchered in Turkey, by Islamists, for publishing Bibles.

Where the laws are immoral, you are bound by God's law, not man's.

 

I can't find anything in the Bible that would lead me to believe that having a minimum U.S. parts count is immoral, but you guys do as you please.

 

Law abiding gun owners get slammed every time an idiot breaks the law.

Each time a doofus decides to take the law into his own hands, we all pay the price.

You should choose your battles carefully.

 

If you don't like the laws, write your representatives. Run for office.

Give money to Pro-gun candidates.

Join the GOA, the NRA, or another Pro-gun group.

Don't just start breaking the laws because you think they are stupid.

 

A sawed-off gun barrel got a guy's pregnant wife shot by the Feds, (Ruby Ridge) and brought a world of hurt on him.

The Branch Dividians were screwed up, but "rumors" of machine guns were all the Feds needed to come calling.

 

Truthfully, if the ATF is ever looking inside your gun, you are already in a world of hurt.

Either because you've broken the law in a big way, or somebody is out to get you.

Even if your gun is completely legal, if they end up going through your stuff, the evening news will be talking about your "Assault Weapon", your arsenal, your "machine gun" and your ammo stockpiles.

More than likely, your goose will be cooked by that time.

 

Yes, most gun laws are stupid.

(Short barrels, suppressors, full auto, etc.)

 

And yes, I'll obey every one of them.

 

To be honest, I do not feel that the authorities are there because the God put them there. That kind of crap was told to slaves to keep them slaves. However, I digress.

I obey the law. However, it has nothing to do with god, satan or UFO, it has to do with PUNISHMENTS or MY OWN BELIEFS. I like to stick it to "da man" more then any white guy can even imagine.

"Before none of your painted idol shall I bow, and he who sayth onto me "thou shall" will be my mortal foe" - as one wise man said.

I do not like the restraints of the laws (most of them are retarded anyway), however, I obey them. ESPECIALLY THOSE which can get me into DEEP trouble. Gun laws are one such thing.

I do not own a converted Saiga 223, probably will get one a bit later, when 20.5 inch barrels will come back, and I WILL put the right number of parts: Muzzle Break, Trigger Group and Flash Hider (thats 5). WHile retaining a monte carlo stock on it. Making it a companion to my Norinco Hunter. I, however, also say that you need to work WITHING the system but AGAINST the system, or the parts of it you do not like.

Get compromising material on public officials and send it to newspapers owned by their opponents. Undermine every effort to put into effect the law that you do not like. Do so while OBEYING THE LETTER of the law.

Spread doubt and discent about the laws you do not like, existing and otherwise. When in war with media ALWAYS repeat the fact that 97% of the media is owned by 3 megacorporations and ALL of the media depends on

advertisers, therefore the media is neither independant nor is it fair. This will plant the seeds of mistrust to the mainstream media.

Tell people to look for alternative sources of information since they are not told "the whole truth", say that while sounding enigmatic and condescending. People will go and find all the information they EXPECT to find.

Thus the seeds of doubt are planted in the minds and they become doubting those in power.

THATS how you change the law and the system.