Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 LMAO Cobra...I guess you told me... Well in any case, jaak, let us know how it turns out. Bob I'm not tring to tell you...lol I'm just sharing be like Spongebob and just soak it up bro..lol. I don't use JB as much as I used to, I'm looking into getting a welder. But for cosmetic applications like filling small cracks or things of that nature it works as well as anything else and without overheating the metal and requiring it to be refinished. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Sorry about the bullet post Cobra. I got confused and pasted that on the wrong thread. Yeah I guess I could drill into the ace block and just use the nylon plugs. They did not look that bad. Smooth would look better though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Sorry about the bullet post Cobra. I got confused and pasted that on the wrong thread. Yeah I guess I could drill into the ace block and just use the nylon plugs. They did not look that bad. Smooth would look better though. No prob bro, that was so far out there I kinda figured that or you were trying to change the subject..lol. If you want to try the plugs with the Ace block just install it, drill your holes on center, then take it out and drill them oversize. I think I did them 1/4" or something. I guess the hole plugs just don't really bother me enough to be worth the extra trouble of welding, grinding, sanding, and total refinish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 You know, as I re-read this I was thinking about the old lead-filled custom cars back in the day. Why couldn't a guy just braze or solder the holes? With a carbon block behind, and the holes chamfered on both sides a little I believe it would work well, and you could do it with a propane torch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 ............heh, heh, heh..........yep, it was me who tagged Bob with "DoucheBob"............. (Bob, by the way, is neither a douchebag or an elitist............) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 You know, as I re-read this I was thinking about the old lead-filled custom cars back in the day. Why couldn't a guy just braze or solder the holes? With a carbon block behind, and the holes chamfered on both sides a little I believe it would work well, and you could do it with a propane torch. I would agree with that. Soldering should work fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick74 0 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) As a professional welder, I wouldnt weld them shut, just in case a scenario arises where putting them back into original sporter configuration occurred, such as a declaration that a pistol grip saiga is a Destructive Device. No, Im not paranoid, I just have watched the USAS 12 and the Street Sweepers become the same things, and I fear Queen Hillary and Jester Obama may have plans for our guns when they get into power (SHUDDER!!!!) Then again, Im happy with the Ace folder on mine, and never saw the need to move the trigger in the first place. As for JB weld, we see it alot, as people generally try to be cheap, and patch sidecases, boats, etc, with it, until they realize that its a great hole filler, but not if you have to keep fluid in, or out. Some of the epoxies can be some tenacious stuff, and to rule out using them, is just limiting another tool available to you. Hell, there are epoxies being used in the aluminum industry that hold so good, you will tear the aluminum, before you will tear the epoxy. Specifically, honey combed materials used in the airline industry to make a weight bearing floor, thats ultra light weight, and so thin, a weld isnt possible, was the application I first saw them used in, but once I saw them, a horde of other uses started to come to mind. If someone says that there arent uses for epoxies in firearm applications, I say you just dont know what they are, or have never used them. As for the brazing or soldering, I have seen brass crack, as its just not as flexible as the steel, especially when ground thin, it may want to crack around the outsides of the holes. Soldering, preferably done with a large copper Iron, heated with a torch, would work well, I have done it many times on steel gas tanks that were unavailable to replace on old cars, and also on body panels, such as chevelle trunks that were OEM, but were mutilated when somebody bolted a spoiler on, etc. Magnets dont stick, and purist rebuilders demand that. Using a torch directly on the receiver, may place enough heat onto it, to possibly warp them. A large copper Iron heats just where you need to, and not over a large area. Edited July 21, 2007 by frick74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 We weld them (TiG) every day at Tromix, and I consider that to be the absolute best solution. Brazing/soldering is by no means ideal, but I would consider it superior to JB weld. A Tromix conversion cannot be returned to sport configuration, and I can't imagine why someone would want to. In the unlikely event that the "DD"" occurs, it won't matter if it has a pistol grip or not, nor will you have it taken away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick74 0 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) Yes, Im familiar with what happened to the other guns, and the difference I see is that the Saiga was originally imported in "Sporting" configuration. And, in a best, worse case scenario, an "as imported" Saiga may be able to avoid being added to the registry as a DD. But a permanently converted one, would become the "Bad" Saiga that now and forever on, would be on a list somewhere in DC, and require future class 3 transfer. In the worst, worse case scenario, any Saiga, sporter, or pistol grip, would be declared a DD, and then it is a moot issue. I also agree that TIG is the best option if you are going to weld, but almost no light duty gun owner is likely to have one, and not even every weld shop does, as the "I can teach a monkey to run a MIG gun" mentality continues to proliferate in most shop's anymore. Face it, stick, TIG, and gas welding, are becoming lost arts in most places, when a MIG will do the job of all of them, 98% of the time. Edited July 21, 2007 by frick74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I guess I don't understand- are you suggesting that a converted Saiga could be made a DD, but a "sporter" Saiga would be legal somehow? Remember there are millions of AK's out there in this configuration. I just don't think the conversion process is a factor in a gun's DD status. I don't think that precision welding is becoming a lost art; there were never enough good welders. True, the wire-feeder has made more people capable of running a crappy bead though. TiG guys will typically make double what a mig guy makes, plus the work is easier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 ....My opinion remains unchanged however...JB weld is a bad idea on a firearm. At Tromix, we've made plenty of guns that are cobbled together and look rough, but run great. Tony's safe is full of 'em.... I have to agree with Bob here. Bondo and JB Weld have no place on a gun, if it is going to be used for defense. If it is a game gun, it really does not matter. But Bondo and JB Weld do crack and fail, more commonly then welds. I would not want pieces of that floating around in my gun when I need it to fire. That said I know of one builder on the board that has good luck with it so far! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 wasnt someone using black hole plugs to fill the holes with? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Lighten up, Francis. You know, as I re-read this I was thinking about the old lead-filled custom cars back in the day. Why couldn't a guy just braze or solder the holes? With a carbon block behind, and the holes chamfered on both sides a little I believe it would work well, and you could do it with a propane torch. As I re-read this, I was thinking about Stripes. And the line was actually "settle down, francis". Just thought I'd shed some humor on an otherwise unhappy thread. lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 well, I use some different contruction epoxies to do things like install overhung tile on stairs and such, and its some rock-hard stuff and all, but I wouldnt put it on a gun, myself. I could see bond-o on stocks for bringing up a synthetic stock's cheek piece or something, but other than that? me personally? I wouldnt put either on one of my guns. then again, I have access to the correct equipment and I can weld well enough to do some things to my guns, so im sure I could do rivet holes if I was careful and took my time with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I'd say Bob has got a pretty good point with filling it with lead or solder. But in reality, lead in old cars was bondo in it's day. Bondo is just like jb weld, and if it's not going to fall in the receiver, who cares?? Just do it, and if anyone asks, say you welded it. Who gives a shit really? I don't tell people that I used bbq paint on the underside of the receiver, and no one asks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 I agree with bvamp- epoxy on a stock or a plastic part. Personally I wouldn't do it on the receiver, but it wouldn't be the first time that someone failed to take my advice and succeeded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Are you guys saying you wouldn't do it purely because of the "status" jb weld projects? This isn't about function it's about looks. Based on what this guy is saying, he's not plugging a hole, he's filling a "pit". There's no way it can fall inside right? If it did crack, it would fall off, and no big deal. Just like on Cobra's HG retainers, if it fails, the jb weld is not going to go INTO the gun, it's just cosmetic. Additionally, I saw a video of a guy pouring 2 handfuls of sand into an open ak receiver and firing it. If you wanna use jb weld, go for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 What I'm saying, Shane, is that I don't think it will last the life of the weapon. Especially since it's in a sheet-metal hole. This guy made this thread to solicit advise; that is mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 If I cant fix it with duct tape I use JB weld. Having said that, I dont think the receiver is thick enough by itself for the JB to hold. It needs something to back it up as someone else said. Theres a lot of vibration when the gun is fired and it may come loose. If you do use it, Id chamfer the outside and leave a little extra on the inside to form a wedge if there is clearance. Just my .02. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 What I'm saying, Shane, is that I don't think it will last the life of the weapon. Especially since it's in a sheet-metal hole. This guy made this thread to solicit advise; that is mine. Probably right, but I guess I'm looking at as a temporary fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Just leave the danged ol' holes. More drainage. I use cap headed screws in the holes (like you use for screw building AKs). These have hex holes in the top, but those holes can be filled in with um JB Weld or similar product and made to look like a rivet head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 nailoth makes a good point- Why not just use a rivet? You could even use an aluminum one to make it easy to squeeze. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick74 0 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) Why not a rivet? I would assume he is trying to make it look like it wasnt converted, and there wouldnt be rivets on a factory pistol grip Saiga. Edited July 22, 2007 by frick74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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