I'm an odd SAIGA Owner...

[J0k3r 0]

Hey all,

 

Here is why I'm odd...

 

I bought my SAIGA 7.62x39 about 5 years ago or so and shot it maybe 20x. I loved shooting it, but during the time this was a new rifle to me, I was shooting my DSA SA58. I was in love with the .308 and gave very little attention to the SAIGA. I considered it at most something to shoot if I was bored. About 6 months ago I sold my .308 and have been pistol shooting and goofing around with my 10/22s in my spare time. Lately I have been getting a serious urge for a new gun, but I didn't feel like dishing out the $2k for the DPMS I was scoping out. With that being said I started going through the gun safe to find something I could play around with and it dawned on me to see if there is anything out there for SAIGA. Low and behold I find this site and combined with all of the other reading I did tonight I am finding that this rifle is a gem in the rough.

 

So with the intro there to my lack of understanding of this rifle, I am dying to ask some questions. I have read about 3 pages of posts and I am now more confused than when I started. If someone could clearly lay this out for me I would be greatful. I have seen what the users of this board have done to their rifles and I am truely impressed. With that view I am hoping you guys could help a SAIGA noob in tricking mine out and following these confusing rules the ATF have.

 

I currently have;

 

A bone stock SAIGA 7.62x39 with the sporter stock that came with 1 30rd mag, 1 10-rd mag, and 1 5-rd mag

 

 

I have ordered the following;

 

(2) Sure Fire Mags Saiga 7.62 30 Round Polymer Magazine (US Made)

(1) UTG Dual Picatinny Rail Scope Mount (AK)

(1) Russian American Armory Russian Saiga Skeletonized Stock

 

Now from my understanding of what I have read so far tonight if I put the skeleton stock and use the 30rd mags I will be in violation. Is that correct?

 

If I am in violation, is there anything I can do to get my rifle legit and still make use of everything that I have bought? If I have to take it on the chin and not install the stock, it serves me right for not doing all of the reading before I made a purchase. However, if there is way to use everything I would love for some feedback.

 

I want to thank you all for building a great community for SAIGA owners and from what reading I could cram in one night, I must say you guys have built a wealth of information. With that said, I should more than likely be using the search feature more to answer what I have just asked, but being that this could be a serious issue and that I am not fully understanding all of the in's and out's of the threads that I have read on here pretaining to the issue I wanted to ask and give details about my situation to get the right answers.

 

Thanks again,

 

-J0k3r

[Paladin 37]

Go Here- http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18530

 

It will explain the 922R thing and explain the parts count on your rifle and give a guide on how to modify. Welcome to the party.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I am finding that this rifle is a gem in the rough.

 

So true!!

[J0k3r 0]

Go Here- http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18530

 

It will explain the 922R thing and explain the parts count on your rifle and give a guide on how to modify. Welcome to the party.

Great info! and a fast response

 

I wanna bounce something off you guys just to get myself in check. If I was only to be using the 30rd mags I would have to change 1 part that is in bold on that list over to a US part? And since I ordered the "Russian American Armory Russian Saiga Skeletonized Stock" from Gilberts if I wish to install it and use the 30rd mags I would need to change an additional part list in bold to a US part? for a total of two?

 

If I got that right, where is a good place to pick up parts made in the USA to knock a couple off of that list so that I am in compliance? And what would be the most useful parts to change?

 

Thanks again

 

I am finding that this rifle is a gem in the rough.

 

So true!!

 

woot woot!

[nalioth 405]

If I got that right, where is a good place to pick up parts made in the USA to knock a couple off of that list so that I am in compliance? And what would be the most useful parts to change?

Installing a US made gas piston will keep your rifle looking like a factory gun. You could also use a Tapco Saiga-specific galil style foreend.

[Bvamp 604]

ITS ABOUT TIME you found us!?!?!? what took you so long?

[J0k3r 0]

Quick question,

 

Where can you find the ACE folding PG/Stock set that I have been reading about on this forum?

 

(Thread of reference)

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20599

[scoutjoe 276]

Jok3r,

 

there are two basic types of ACE stock sets (modify your gun or don't modify your gun). Quickly scanning the thread you linked to best I can tell is you want the unmoded option.

 

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?...products_id=426

that is the pistol grip and reciever block, you still have to buy the hinge and the buttstock ontop of that.

 

If you are looking at the type of stock that you have to modify your gun for

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?...products_id=656

is more of what you should be looking at.

[jbremount 0]

This is your funds and your rifle but this is my take on modifications to Saiga rifle,

 

Why not add parts/compontents towards doing the full conversion? The rifle feels and handles much better in it's original form as a AK type rifle. Saiga rifles are made at the same factory as the Russian Militay AK rifles. Saiga rifles are sportirized at this factory so they can be legally imported into the country because of the gun laws. I would say most Saiga rifles are converted to a form similar to the original AK guns and it is not as hard as it seems. I removed the plate at the bottom of my gun and all the holes were there. The U.S. tapco trigger group greatly improved the trigger to a crisp 3-4 lbs pull. You can find a U.S. stock($20+) and a U.S. pistol grip($5+). The whole convesion can done inexpensively if you shop online at the right sites. That's your five U.S. parts. Add a bullet guide and you are pretty much done. You can convert the front end later if you want.

 

You can then use:

 

(1) standard AK 30 round magazines(foreign-$10,$12)

(2) ultimak scout mount

(3) various AK stocks(fixed/folding/etc)

Edited November 14, 2007 by jbremount

[VanKiller 322]

Looks like your getting all the correct information here. The only thing I can think to add, is ,, Don't feel like an Odd Saiga owner,,,,,Hell most of us are........ ...........This might be a pic of Ben's after hours therapy.....

[Bvamp 604]

HAHAH I dont THINK so, Tom. My therapist is a guitar, actually, if you must know....it seems Ive been playing it quite a bit lately.

 

 

As a side note - now that I am in a state where I can convert my saiga shotgun back to its original configuration, I almost dont want to. I might get another one, and convert THAT one instead. I am lethal with mine how it is, with skeet and moving targets and such, but I DO have to say that the romanian AKM i own I much prefer in its PG configuration, so maybe converting your x39 saiga rifle isnt such a bad idea after all.

[SAIGAGUY 0]

Hey all,

 

Here is why I'm odd...

 

I bought my SAIGA 7.62x39 about 5 years ago or so and shot it maybe 20x. I loved shooting it, but during the time this was a new rifle to me, I was shooting my DSA SA58. I was in love with the .308 and gave very little attention to the SAIGA. I considered it at most something to shoot if I was bored. About 6 months ago I sold my .308 and have been pistol shooting and goofing around with my 10/22s in my spare time. Lately I have been getting a serious urge for a new gun, but I didn't feel like dishing out the $2k for the DPMS I was scoping out. With that being said I started going through the gun safe to find something I could play around with and it dawned on me to see if there is anything out there for SAIGA. Low and behold I find this site and combined with all of the other reading I did tonight I am finding that this rifle is a gem in the rough.

 

So with the intro there to my lack of understanding of this rifle, I am dying to ask some questions. I have read about 3 pages of posts and I am now more confused than when I started. If someone could clearly lay this out for me I would be greatful. I have seen what the users of this board have done to their rifles and I am truely impressed. With that view I am hoping you guys could help a SAIGA noob in tricking mine out and following these confusing rules the ATF have.

 

I currently have;

 

A bone stock SAIGA 7.62x39 with the sporter stock that came with 1 30rd mag, 1 10-rd mag, and 1 5-rd mag

 

 

I have ordered the following;

 

(2) Sure Fire Mags Saiga 7.62 30 Round Polymer Magazine (US Made)

(1) UTG Dual Picatinny Rail Scope Mount (AK)

(1) Russian American Armory Russian Saiga Skeletonized Stock

 

Now from my understanding of what I have read so far tonight if I put the skeleton stock and use the 30rd mags I will be in violation. Is that correct?

 

If I am in violation, is there anything I can do to get my rifle legit and still make use of everything that I have bought? If I have to take it on the chin and not install the stock, it serves me right for not doing all of the reading before I made a purchase. However, if there is way to use everything I would love for some feedback.

 

I want to thank you all for building a great community for SAIGA owners and from what reading I could cram in one night, I must say you guys have built a wealth of information. With that said, I should more than likely be using the search feature more to answer what I have just asked, but being that this could be a serious issue and that I am not fully understanding all of the in's and out's of the threads that I have read on here pretaining to the issue I wanted to ask and give details about my situation to get the right answers.

 

Thanks again,

 

-J0k3r

Get the polymer SureFire Gun Mag and change out the trigger group with Tapco's USA made version and that gives you the 6 parts you need for 922r compliance. You than can use any stock you would like. Remember that you still need to have a certain amount of russian parts on the rifle.

[jgillaspy 24]

I hate to be contradictory, but let's review this whole 922r "thing". . .

 

Yes, 922r is about "foreign made" parts (not just Russian), but it not about "maintaining" them; it is about replacing them.

 

Our government (in it's infinite wisdom) came up with a list of items (20 total) that are common to many if not most semi-auto weapons (see the tech Section for the complete list). Of these 20 items any imported, non-sporting, semi-auto weapon can have NO MORE than 10. All of the Saiga RIFLES have 14 from the factory. They can be imported because they are "sporting" in nature, i.e. they don't have any "evil, black rifle" features like a protruding pistol grip, or a high-capacity magazine. If you change the "sporting" nature of the weapon by adding or subtracting pieces, you must be 922r compliant.

 

If you want to use hi-cap mags, you must get compliant, which means removing a MINIMUM of 4 COUNTED parts and replace them with US-MADE parts. Yes, the magazine counts as 3 parts (still need one more), but if I remove the magazine, I NO LONGER can count the parts as replaced.

 

Here is the scenario. . . Uncle BATFE shows up at your favorite shooting place and notices your cool rifle and comes over to take a look. He doesn't bother to ID himself, after all, he is just shooting there himself (yea, right). After you brag on your project rifle, he decides to check your compliance. No prob, you think, you have your US-made mags. but next to you is someone else shooting a WASR w/ foreign mags. . .

 

Not that this has ever happened, but it has been put forth here that Uncle BATFE is NOT your friend and he is NOT here to insure you have a great day, and that it could! The idea here is that make your weapon compliant w/ out the need to count on the mag for compliance, so that there no way uncle BATFE can mess w/ you!

 

4 parts need to be removed and then any other "countable" parts added need to be us made. The common parts are:

 

1. Hammer

2. Disconnector (no sear in semi-auto weapons)

3. Trigger

 

Then you can get creative w/ the following:

 

1. Gas Piston

2. Stock

3. Handguard

 

If you did ALL of these on a "stock" Saiga, you would now have only 8 "countable" parts, giving you 2 possible to add back if you wanted to (i.e. you wanted to use a foreign-made stock).

 

Since the pistol grip is not present on a stock Saiga, it hasn't come up yet. If you add one, it counts. This leads us to the typical conversion seen here in the forum:

 

1. Hammer

2. Disconnector

3. Trigger

4. Stock

5. Pistol Grip

 

This configuration will leave you with 10 "countable" parts on the weapon and allow you to use whatever magazines you can find. Keep in mind that if you wish to add a "muzzle device" that would need to be US-made, as it is one of the countable parts.

 

I hope this helps. . .

[vjor 2]

[VanKiller 322]

[J0k3r 0]

Great info guys!

 

I think I got a solid grasp on what I need to do now due to all of the very clear information. With that said where do you guys find the best place to purchase your parts? I have only shopped online for 10/22 parts and optics relating to the gun world. Anyone have a shop the like more than others?

 

I took a vacation day from work so that I could catch up on some stuff around the house, so it leaves a good amount of time today to continue searching this forum and reading up on the knowledge here.

 

Thanks again all I really appreciate all of the info

[jgillaspy 24]

I have found that the biggest thing to watch out for when buying is the shipping. Paying a little more for one part while getting several others can actually be cheaper due to shipping charges. A perfect example; yesterday I was shopping around for a pg nut and found one at Tapco in their clearance section for $2.99 and a Mosin Nagant tool I've been looking for for $0.50. WOW so cheap. . .shipping was almost $9.00!!! I bought it anyway, but just as an example.

 

I purchased all my conversion parts (Tapco T6, SAW PG, and G2 FCG) from On-Point Firearms out of Florida. At the time they had the best prices by far (T6 stock for $36.00!) and shipping was only $8.50 or so. Their shipping has gone up some, but they are still far cheaper on the T6.

 

I've read great things here about K-var (K-mart). I just found their prices a little high. They do have a complete set of US-made furniture to make your conversion look just like an original AKM, though

 

There is a thread either in the Tech section or Guest section that lists places to buy parts, so look for it and check out the places.

[SAIGAGUY 0]

I hate to be contradictory, but let's review this whole 922r "thing". . .

 

Yes, 922r is about "foreign made" parts (not just Russian), but it not about "maintaining" them; it is about replacing them.

 

Our government (in it's infinite wisdom) came up with a list of items (20 total) that are common to many if not most semi-auto weapons (see the tech Section for the complete list). Of these 20 items any imported, non-sporting, semi-auto weapon can have NO MORE than 10. All of the Saiga RIFLES have 14 from the factory. They can be imported because they are "sporting" in nature, i.e. they don't have any "evil, black rifle" features like a protruding pistol grip, or a high-capacity magazine. If you change the "sporting" nature of the weapon by adding or subtracting pieces, you must be 922r compliant.

 

If you want to use hi-cap mags, you must get compliant, which means removing a MINIMUM of 4 COUNTED parts and replace them with US-MADE parts. Yes, the magazine counts as 3 parts (still need one more), but if I remove the magazine, I NO LONGER can count the parts as replaced.

 

Here is the scenario. . . Uncle BATFE shows up at your favorite shooting place and notices your cool rifle and comes over to take a look. He doesn't bother to ID himself, after all, he is just shooting there himself (yea, right). After you brag on your project rifle, he decides to check your compliance. No prob, you think, you have your US-made mags. but next to you is someone else shooting a WASR w/ foreign mags. . .

 

Not that this has ever happened, but it has been put forth here that Uncle BATFE is NOT your friend and he is NOT here to insure you have a great day, and that it could! The idea here is that make your weapon compliant w/ out the need to count on the mag for compliance, so that there no way uncle BATFE can mess w/ you!

 

4 parts need to be removed and then any other "countable" parts added need to be us made. The common parts are:

 

1. Hammer

2. Disconnector (no sear in semi-auto weapons)

3. Trigger

 

Then you can get creative w/ the following:

 

1. Gas Piston

2. Stock

3. Handguard

 

If you did ALL of these on a "stock" Saiga, you would now have only 8 "countable" parts, giving you 2 possible to add back if you wanted to (i.e. you wanted to use a foreign-made stock).

 

Since the pistol grip is not present on a stock Saiga, it hasn't come up yet. If you add one, it counts. This leads us to the typical conversion seen here in the forum:

 

1. Hammer

2. Disconnector

3. Trigger

4. Stock

5. Pistol Grip

 

This configuration will leave you with 10 "countable" parts on the weapon and allow you to use whatever magazines you can find. Keep in mind that if you wish to add a "muzzle device" that would need to be US-made, as it is one of the countable parts.

 

I hope this helps. . .

You forgot one thing. That SAR mag won't work in your saiga and if he turns down a mag that has U.S on all the parts plus says MADE IN AMERICA on the body with an AMERICAN FLAG on the body, I think he might work for the russians not the BATF.

[jbremount 0]

I think I got a solid grasp on what I need to do now due to all of the very clear information. With that said where do you guys find the best place to purchase your parts? I have only shopped online for 10/22 parts and optics relating to the gun world. Anyone have a shop the like more than others?

 

 

 

 

Try this place:(linky)