Losing patience with my Saiga...

[conndoor 0]

I've had it for a month or so now. I've been to the range three different times and shot around 400 rounds (all wolf HP). I have multiple failures every time out (generally a couple FTFs, and a couple where the ejected case is stuck facing backwards). I'm using a mixture of Surefire 30 rnd mags, and Master Molder mags. (never a failure with the stock mag)

 

I'm trying to decide between converting it (bullet guide, std AK mags, and then the minimum parts to be compliant - already have US made stock - not really wanting to move the trigger group as my stock is the tapco that's made for the saiga) or trading it for a Vector.

 

My tolerance level for guns that don't run out of the box is pretty low, and this one is trying my patience. The money I put into the conversion and ammo trying to get it to run could be spent on a better(?) weapon.

 

Advice?

[PacketStorm 0]

I definitely understand your frustration. I would be more pissed at the vendor who sold you the Surefire mags. A quick browsing of the forums will show that only the stock Saiga Mags will work in a Stock Saiga. You need the bullet guide to get high capacity mags to feed properly.

 

There are a bunch of vendors on Gunbroker who are selling the Siaga's with the high capacity mags and really have no idea that won't work (or really don't care). These are the guys who should be hearing it from you.

 

A few years back a ban was put in place to keep out the "evil AK-47's". Russian made AK's were not allowed to be imported into the country. Izhmash made modifications to their rifle to "sportsterize" it (ie...make it less evil). One of the features they used was to prevent normal (high capacity) mags from being used in the rifle. By making it with the large lip in the front of the magazine, it demonstrated that only their low capacity 10 round mags would function in the gun. (Also made the locking mechanism a little different so that normal mags won't lock into place and won't stay in the gun.) Luckily for us, the engineers were thinking ahead in the game and made mods that are pretty easy to reverse or work around.

 

Wait - I meant to say your rifle is a crappy POS. I'll give you $50 to take it off your hands and make sure nobody else suffers the excruciating problems you have been experiencing.

[jhereg 0]

I've had it for a month or so now. I've been to the range three different times and shot around 400 rounds (all wolf HP). I have multiple failures every time out (generally a couple FTFs, and a couple where the ejected case is stuck facing backwards). I'm using a mixture of Surefire 30 rnd mags, and Master Molder mags. (never a failure with the stock mag)

 

I'm trying to decide between converting it (bullet guide, std AK mags, and then the minimum parts to be compliant - already have US made stock - not really wanting to move the trigger group as my stock is the tapco that's made for the saiga) or trading it for a Vector.

 

My tolerance level for guns that don't run out of the box is pretty low, and this one is trying my patience. The money I put into the conversion and ammo trying to get it to run could be spent on a better(?) weapon.

 

Advice?

 

If you know it works w/ the stock mag, then there is a problem w/ the mags. I would mark each of the mags & try shooting. If you have a mag related problem I'd mark down which mags are having the problem & try to isolate it. If you can't isolate the problem to specific mags, I would try different ammo. It might also be worthwhile to clean it really well, spray it down heavily w/ gunscrubber and relube. I doubt the cleaning will fix the problem on an AK, but it's always worth trying in my experience to eliminate a possible problem. I'm not as knowledgeable on the AK system as an AR, but your failure to eject w/ the case backwards in the action would indicate problem w/ the extractor or ejector AR from my experience. It might be worthwhile to check your extractor.

 

edited to add: Never mind. PacketStorm posted while I was writing. Looks like it's mags/lack of bulletguide. Ignore what I wrote above.

Edited April 9, 2008 by jhereg

[wlnt 2]

'condoor'

 

Even though I did my conversion I rarely shoot anything other than my Saiga 10 shot mag at the range.

If I load up 30 round mags, I tend to shoot too much.

 

Since there is nothing wrong with your rifle (except that it won't accept magazines that are not made for it) keep your rifle and shoot for a while. You may grow to like it as is, or you can always sell it.

 

OR

 

If you really insist on 30 round mags you coud buy one overpriced Saiga 30 round.

 

louielouie

 

p.s. When I read over my reply I noticed my wording sounds like I am giving you a hard time. That is not my intention.

[mini14jac 1]

Sounds like a bullet guide will solve your problems.

And, see if Surefire will replace your mags.

(Though they may work after you install the bullet guide.)

 

Don't blame the gun because the dealer sold you crappy mags.

The stock mag works.

Your Saiga is working fine.

When you install the bullet guide, you'll be able to use AK mags.

(But you should add enough parts to become 922r compliant.)

[jamesavery22 54]

Don't forget, when you are using those surefire mags its not really a stock config. They are a "shortcut" to use high cap mags.

 

You still don't have failures with your stock mag so you need to focus on that. Forget the surefire mags. Install a bullet guide and use mil surplus mags.

[Shellshock1918 1]

I definitely understand your frustration. I would be more pissed at the vendor who sold you the Surefire mags. A quick browsing of the forums will show that only the stock Saiga Mags will work in a Stock Saiga. You need the bullet guide to get high capacity mags to feed properly.

My master molder works just fine. its had about 120+ rounds through it with a flawless performance.

[rd99fxdl 17]

You guys keep knocking the Surefire mags but I have to say they've never given me any troubles.

They were designed to fit right in the rifle like the stock mags.I,ve run well over a thousand rounds through mine without ever having any FTF/FTE's.

It does sound like what jhereg said and check your extractor,or make sure the piston is getting the bolt back all the way

[jhereg 0]

Do you have a buffer installed in this rifle?

[conndoor 0]

I love the rifle and want to keep it. I ordered a case of golden tiger today, and two 30 round standard AK mags. I ordered a bullet guide from Danzig last week.

 

I'll let you know if any of this helps.

 

FYI - I do not have a buffer installed unless it came from the factory with one. What is a buffer?

 

thx-c

[mini14jac 1]

You may need to use a file on the mag catch to make the AK mags lock in, but

it's an easy fix.

 

(I wasn't knocking the Surefire mags, just pointing out that his stock mag works, so the

SF mags must have a problem. )

[sicktooth 8]

a buffer is a piece of rubber that slips over your recoil spring. its supposed to help with reducing recoil, but there has been some problems with it, although it works in theory. this COULD be causing your problems since AK 47's were never meant to use such a product. i believe that it prevents the bolt carrier to slide all the way back thus not letting it eject the round. i had one on my MAK-90 (Chinese AK), I took it out a couple of weeks ago and trashed it. iv been hearing of receivers cracking and such. haven't seen any PROOF...but decided the hell with it and to play it safe...

 

blackjackbuffers.com will give you more information

Edited April 9, 2008 by sicktooth

[photohause 0]

I have noticed that there are several kind (and shapes) of bullet guides.... is one prefered over another?

 

thanks

[Navy87Guy 1]

While some people have had success running the Master Molder or Surefire mags without a bullet guide, that's not the way the weapon was designed. This sounds like a clear magazine problem -- so your frustration shouldn't be with the gun. Install the bullet guide and see if that clears up the problem. If not, then there is probably something wrong with the mags themselves.

 

No one else has mentioned it, but you also need to make sure you comply with 922R if you're using the high capacity mags. The mags count as 3 parts, so you need to replace at least one more (gas piston is probably the easiest/cheapest) to be in a legal configuration.

 

Jim

[jbauch357 0]

I have noticed that there are several kind (and shapes) of bullet guides.... is one prefered over another?

 

I have the same question - I'll be doing my conversion soon but already have master molder and stock mags, so I don't plan on installing the bullet guide and filing the mag catch... But if I have feeding issues with this configuration I'll be looking to make those mods and it would be good to know ahead of time which ones to go with...

[Navy87Guy 1]

I have noticed that there are several kind (and shapes) of bullet guides.... is one prefered over another?

 

I have the same question - I'll be doing my conversion soon but already have master molder and stock mags, so I don't plan on installing the bullet guide and filing the mag catch... But if I have feeding issues with this configuration I'll be looking to make those mods and it would be good to know ahead of time which ones to go with...

 

Just buy one from Dinzag -- he has a visual guide to show you whether you need the flat or the curved, based on your trunnion.

 

Jim