Smiley_Guy 2 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I was told by a convincing sounding non-AK owner that Wolf Bi-Metal HP rounds put signifigant wear on the barrel and it will be worn out after as little as 500 rounds. Any truth to this? Have you ever had to change a worn barrel? How many rounds through Your still good Saiga? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Are all of their HP rounds "bi-metal?" I usually put more than 500rds through my AK when I go to the range. It's doing fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smiley_Guy 2 Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I don't know. The ones I have appear to be copper but you can pick up the whole cartrige from the bullet tip with a magnet. They are in a black Wolf box and labled: 122 gr. HP Steel Case non-corrosive I checked my steel case FMJ rounds are not magnetic (well, the cases are) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaShooter 0 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 It would seem to me that if after 500 rounds your barrel was junk, the Russians wouldn't have used a chrome lining, this is after all a slightly modified AK-47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) well, guess what guys? I just took a magnet to every make and form of bullet in the house. take a guess what i found.... silver bear 380 HP and 40 FMJ PISTOL ammo == magnetic wolf 7.62 + 40fmj + 380fmj - rifle is HP, SP, and FMJ == magnetic noname russian bulk 7.62x39mm HP + FMJ == magnetic wolf 223 fmj + SP + hp - 9mm FMJ == not magnetic remington 357, 40, 9mm, 223, 12 guage slug/buckshot == nonmagnetic cci blaser 40 == not magnetic cci/horandy/remington 22LR hp, copper plated, lead == non magnetic 8mm mauser mil spec 1970s nato issue non corrosive == magnetic 8mm mauser ww2 nazi marked == magnetic winchestor superX 12 gauge slugs == non magnetic wolf 12 gauge skeet loads == nonmagnetic remington nitro express 12 gauge skeet loads == non magnetic winchestor superX skeet loads == non magnetic I have some other rifles and chamberings that I am not advertising here, as I bought them used and are non-declared as per my damn rights. none of these are magnetic however. by magnetic, i am talking lifiting the entire round off a table with a magnet by its TIP. it is the jacket is my impression, although the 7.62 SP sticks by the lead. the same rounds also lift off of the table at a nearly identical distance to magnet as the same round lifted in the same manner by the shell BASE. there is no way it is the case. its either the jacket itself, or the lead mixture, which is what i am leaning tword. Im stocking up on russian ammo in every caliber after i finish my next contract and get paid, is all I know. there are also two different wolf 223 fmj rounds with different bullet weights. I only have 55gr FMJ, and 62gr HP. it is one of these two that has two different weight bullets. I didnt have the other type that was unfired to check, maybe someone else has them and can check them? Edited December 4, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ASSASSIN 1 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hi all Your assumptions are correct , some bullets are in fact steel jacketed but have a copper wash applied to them. My wolf 7.62x39mm is steel jacket as well as all my milsurp ammo. my saiga has only ever fired steel jacket ammo and its doing fine with no visible wear to the rifling. im not going to worry too much about it but i have heard horror stories but i believe that they are just that "stories" untill proved otherwise. all the best assassin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 The Saiga is a 100series AK. It will shoot Wolf, Bear or surp. NO problem. The world is full of "experts" most of wich are mainly BS artists. The same moron probably believes that 30-30 is an armor piercing round! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 (edited) let me ask you guys this. If the wolf soft point ammo i have sticks BY THE LEAD to the magnet, then what? I think there is a high steel content not only in the jacket, but in the round itself. maybe this is why we were hearing wolf is going up in price. they might need to change thier alloy, so they would charge more then, no? another thing is the handgun ammo. you are NOT allowed ANY steel OR iron in the alloy. I for one will be buying a crapload of this ammo after checking it at the shop with a magnet. I expect this ammo wont stay like this after a year or so. I do have a slight problem with guns and ammo. when I have a lot of ammo sitting around, I find it very difficult to resist firing most of it off. I should see a counsler about this, I know, but its the truth, and thats half the battle I am told, is admitting my problem. the other thing I wanted to add here is this is an AK guys. I for one, dont expect accuracy, and I sure as heck dont particularly care if I DO shoot the rifling out of my barrel, although I doubt it will happen for a long time. If it does, I will throw it out and buy another one. I say this a lot, but I cant say it enough: what do you want? its made out of old beer cans in someone's basement? enjoy it for what it is I say. Edited December 5, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I have been eyeing a boulder up in the back for quite some time now. I have a real good defilade from ricochets I can shoot from, so I might not be able to resist myself and better judgement and go see exactly how many 7.62's it can take before being reduced to a pile of gravel. If I DO do this (yeh, I know, unsafe big time, DONT DO IT YOURSELF! IM JUST STUPID LIKE THAT!) I do have one single box of non-magnetic wolf FMJ I will compare the bullet strikes with and share the results, if any noticeable difference occurs. I expect that if my hunch is right, the steel alloy will do a significant amount of damage more than the regular stuff. I really dont think a soft point lead nose would lift by the tip if it was just the jacket, and if so, would want to turn tword the jacket, which it most assuredly did not. maybe this is the reason our troops are walking around with steel plates in thier kevlar? the russian ammo is ALL made like that, except the newest higher priced stuff that is apprarntly being made for US consumption? somebody did say in this forum that a retailer SAID that wolf changed "something" and is charging more now for ammo.... I cant stand it. I gotta go check it out but its dark now. more destruction? NO WAY? IM THERE!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 The Saiga is a 100series AK. It will shoot Wolf, Bear or surp. NO problem. The world is full of "experts" most of wich are mainly BS artists. The same moron probably believes that 30-30 is an armor piercing round! G O B Heh, I remember Ken Waters (from 7-30 Waters fame) stating in his book "Pet Loads" that the .30-30 Win (which he hated) could pierce iron railroad tie (I hafta try that experiment myself to believe it!). Maybe there is some truth to the statement? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 at our outdoor range, they have welded steel frames you stick into the ground. The frame is made of bar stock, ~3/16" thick, ~3/4" deep. When I had placed a grid of bullseyes at 100yard, and I hit a bit high, I actually nailed the top cross bar almost head on. It sliced it right in half and of course, the whole frame went "booiinngg" apart, which ripped my clamped cardboard off.. in one of my rare feats of wit.. I asked my buddies how many points was it if you KILL the target.. heh. Of course, this was just cheap/soft barestock.. but still... i've seen a FMJ .223 strike the metal without cutting it. It just dents it a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 someone at an indoor range tried to get me to sign this paper before shooting there that if I were to accidentally or even intentionally shoot down one of his cables, I would own them, one THOUSAND dollars. needless to say, I laughed and left. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smiley_Guy 2 Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 ASSASSIN, I ran 200 rounds through it today with no ill effects. I think that "expert" is blowing smoke. I did buy a couple boxes of non-magnetic CZ FMJs for the indoor range that requires them. Oddly the outdoor range I go to doesn't allow them. BVAMP, I'll sure be standing by to hear the results of your experiment... or to send flowers Once again I was impressed by the Saiga. It seems to shoot smoother the more I fire it. I really need to find a plinkin' hole where I can try rapid fire and shoot at cans/whatever. Living in the city sucks. Oh, and I got a Saiga scope mount and cheap scope. Mount was $50 but a much better fit than others I tried. The finish matches my Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I dont think you;ll have to send flowers. maybe a band-aid though. Im notorious for my dangerous experiments around these parts, just ask. I think this boulder Im talking about is going to have a bad day this week Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smiley_Guy 2 Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I visited the Wolf site. They show a wider variety of 7.62X39 than I have seen for sale. They show 122gr in HP or FMJ and 154gr. in Soft point. All are available in Copper or bi-metal. They also had this: http://www.wolfammo.com/poly.htm That could be the rumored price increase. BVAMP, you're going to post photos, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 (edited) yeh, I hope to. Im interested in exactly how much different these rounds are, and I cant think of a better way to test them. I will be sure to be careful, mind you, I have done worse before. I will probably duck behind something when I actually pull the trigger, so I cant promise any kind of accuracy, here. I mean, I am talking about shooting a rock. Give me a few days, Ill get to it this week sometime... Again, I have to stress here that I DONT RECOMMEND TRYING THIS TO ANYONE! IN FACT, I SUGGEST NOONE TRIES IT! I AM AWARE OF THE HAZARDS AND I TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT MYSELF! I WOULD NOT DO THIS UNLESS I HAD A CLUE AS TO WHAT I AM DOING! THE ROUNDS WILL BOUCE BACK AT YOU! I MUST ALSO NOTE THAT I HAVE DONE WORSE AND HAVE GOTTEN HURT! I AM NOT NEARLY AS STUPID OR CARELESS AS I SEEM! (I think) ....you know Im just looking for an excuse to destroy something, right? If that boulder had any clue, it'd get back on the rock wall before I trip over it again.... Edited December 5, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Bvamp-No need to see the headshrinker-the Saiga IS therapy! (also ammo is cheaper than those damned red pills!) But DO be carefull out there. Smiley_Guy-Living in an urban area sucks BIG time! I used to live in the country,but megalopolos moved to ME! Nowhere close or convient to go shoot! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 damn! looks like i'll be selling all my silver bear hollow points to my sks toteing buddys. it states on the box of silver bear that its bi-metal. i shot some rounds into the creek and retrieved em. the jacket separated from the core totally. the jacket could not be formed by hand and it was pretty stiff with the pliars. man that has to wear on the barrel after some time. looks like i'll be bringing a magnet to the gun shop. i understand that there will be barrel wear, but if most of it is preventable, you bet i'll be taking some action! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Villimus 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 About the idea of wearing out your Saiga barrels; if you can shoot enough to wear them out, good luck! I have shot many thousands of rounds of steel jacketed GI 7.9mm, .308 and 7.62mm (39 and 54mm) through my rifles and in no case have I seen any degridation in accuracy. For most of the world steel is the jacket material of choice. Most European sporting ammo (Norma, RWS as example) are steel jacketed soft points. The grade of steel they use is almost as solft as wraught iron and is way softer than the barrel of a modern high power rifle. I am not trying to play arm chair expert here, I make my living fixing peoples firearms. So while I would never claim to be the know all and end all I do have a background in this particular subject. Merry Chistmas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 I would have to agree with popular consensus here guys. I have been fireing nothing but Wolf ammo through both my Saiga and Yugo M59/66 rifles. The Yugo will fire anything with pretty much the same results. But the Saiga doesent like brass shell casings at all. This is ok, because Wolf ammo is cheap and powerful! I have been shooting both fmj's and hp's through the Saiga for a long time. I am surprised that the hp's are just as accurate as the fmj's at 50-100 yards. After ALOT of rounds I havent noticed ANY decrease in acuracy at all. And is it just me, or is the 7.62x39 a WAY better round than the .223? I am still in awe of this inexpensive rifle being such a damn fine tack driver! Mabey I just got lucky with this one, but man do I get respectable groupings at the range! I am not exagerating when I tell you that I am easily keeping up with the AR's and Bushmaster guys at the range. So I dont think that barrel wear is too much of an issue. Hell, my Yugo has a way longer barrel, about the same amount of rounds through it, and cant even come close to the performance of this Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 the kalishnakov, since it becomming a shotgun, has surpassed ALL other firearms ever invented. period. if you are here, i recommend you buy a 12 gauge saiga...there is NO gun that can even compare to it, it is that cool. i still cant belive they are 300 bucks.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 i agree with the AK 12 GAUGE. period. your rifle is nothing compared to a full gun with 12g rounds......mr kalishnakov should be paid now........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 $300? i got mine for $200 nib. they can be found! watch gunbroker daily. and shotgun news also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 I have been SERIOUSLY considering a 12 guage. They look sweet, have a nice capacity, and if its true that the ak action works on a shotty, I dont think you could do much better. Ive been looking around on the 12 guage boards and get really hyped when I read testimonials. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 i know that this is the 7.62x39 board guys, but i have to spread the word and say it here. YOU WILL NOT REGRET GETTING A SAIGA SHOTGUN! i love my saiga 12 so much i went and got a saiga 20. now i'm not sure which one i love more! most look down on the 20 gauge, but the saiga sure makes it a mean little round. not very loud and not much recoil but it packs a mean little punch! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Thank you for the info TW! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aka108 0 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Steel used in jacket of Russian bullets is extremely mild (soft) and will not cause any excess wear of the chrome lined bores. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brian33x51 1 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 i know that this is the 7.62x39 board guys, but i have to spread the word and say it here. YOU WILL NOT REGRET GETTING A SAIGA SHOTGUN! i love my saiga 12 so much i went and got a saiga 20. now i'm not sure which one i love more! most look down on the 20 gauge, but the saiga sure makes it a mean little round. not very loud and not much recoil but it packs a mean little punch! I'm almost sad I didn't order 2 (instead of just one), one to saw the end off and thread, the other to leave alone as full choke. Both would get PG converted of course... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 brian dont saw off too much. from what i hear, everybody that chopped their barrel started having gas system problems. guess too short of a barrel reduces pressures too much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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