keia.atkinson@ou.edu 1 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) This question might have been asked already, but when I searched for it all I got were about 100 threads on when the saiga-12 ones are being released, heh. Anyway, my question is: once a 7.62 Saiga is modified to accept standard AK magazines, can it also accept the 75rd drums that are available? I've heard that even after conversion the guns can be finicky about mags so I figured I would ask the great minds here if they knew. Also, if given the option between a 7.62 Saiga, WASR-10, Arsenal AK, or one of those "Black Widow Tacticals" (you can find them on Gunsamerica) which would you choose? With my last Saiga I ended up spending about 600 in total after my conversion, so they way I figure it they'll all end up costing me the same. So which would you choose and why? Edited August 13, 2008 by Virtuoso Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 You can use any AK47/AKM magazine after conversion. I've never heard of any converted saiga being "finicky" (if it was converted properly) with mags. I would not buy anything via GunsAmerica. They allow flimflam artists of all types there. The Saiga is gonna be the best option. Arsenals are very overpriced for what they are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DS12 1 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Saiga FTW And man you must have done one hell of a conversion for $600! Parts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 put the bullet guide in right, trim your mag latch...that's all it really needs. Mine runs my 2 chi-coms and 3 romy's like a top Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keia.atkinson@ou.edu 1 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Saiga FTW And man you must have done one hell of a conversion for $600! Parts? Heh, check the new rifle post in the .223 forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SJgunguy 5 Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Lancasters are REALLY nice and there is a guy in Simi Valley named James Maddox (mad-ox firearm's) who builds world class AK's. That dude is an artist some of the finest AK's made come out of his shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skullmonkey 0 Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 This question might have been asked already, but when I searched for it all I got were about 100 threads on when the saiga-12 ones are being released, heh. Anyway, my question is: once a 7.62 Saiga is modified to accept standard AK magazines, can it also accept the 75rd drums that are available? I've heard that even after conversion the guns can be finicky about mags so I figured I would ask the great minds here if they knew. Also, if given the option between a 7.62 Saiga, WASR-10, Arsenal AK, or one of those "Black Widow Tacticals" (you can find them on Gunsamerica) which would you choose? With my last Saiga I ended up spending about 600 in total after my conversion, so they way I figure it they'll all end up costing me the same. So which would you choose and why? 600 dollars is that with the purchase of the saiga included? arsenals are nice but i like to tinker so i would pick the saiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stiletto raggio 20 Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. I own two converted Saigas, but I got both of them for well under $500, so I can rationalize it. The Arsenal is a heck of a gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I have a 75 round drum, I've used it once or twice and probably won't use it again. Yes, it is fun shooting it, but it is quite heavy when fully loaded and it is hard to keep a good aim for as long as it takes to empty the drum. Plus at 20-cents-per round you're talking $15 to fill it up. To me the drum is pretty impractical without a bipod, which I'm not going to put on my AK. Maybe if I get a real RPK at some point the drum will be a good option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 my first ak was a lancaster.. nice gun.. I'd recommend it.. Made with a nodak spud reciever and romy g parts kits.. really really nice guns.. plus lifetime warranties are fun, if redundant on an AK.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Frank Rizzo 8 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. I own two converted Saigas, but I got both of them for well under $500, so I can rationalize it. The Arsenal is a heck of a gun. Thats entirely debatable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. I own two converted Saigas, but I got both of them for well under $500, so I can rationalize it. The Arsenal is a heck of a gun. Thats entirely debatable. You're right, it is. It depends on which Arsenal rifle we're talking about, (could be Bulgarian or Russian), and the skills/resources of whoever's converting restoring the "sporter" Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ... So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another? I ask, because I trust my work above all others. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dlcjr1973 24 Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ... So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another? I ask, because I trust my work above all others. +1 1. "workmanship" - possibly, but vodka specials can happen anywhere. Who would have thought that the home of the Kalashnikov could have screwed up so badly? 2. "warranty" - If you use quality guaranteed parts and are sure of your own "workmanship," is this really an issue? I'll take my lovingly restored and meticulously maintained Saiga over the rest! Regards, Sapper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ... So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another? I ask, because I trust my work above all others. You know every square cm of YOUR home converted Saiga. And you can customize it to fit exactly what you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ... So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another? I ask, because I trust my work above all others. That's generally a good point, but it'd be a better one if the SGL20/SGL21 didn't exist. They are new Russian rifles, but assembled by Legion, (Izhmash's custom rifle shop), and have many military features that are generally not found in a "sporter" Saiga 7.62x39. Whether or not your rifle will have certain military features is a crap shoot when you buy a "sporter" Saiga. You might get magwell dimples, you might not. You might get a factory-cut pistol grip hole, you might not. You might get a mil-spec chamber, (that doesn't "step" cartridge necks), but you almost certainly will not. Some military features you can be assured you will never get from the factory on a "sporter" Saiga 7.62. These include: a 24x1.5mm RH threaded barrel, a proper bayonet lug, (and accessory lug on the SGL21), a barrel notched for and installed with a mil-spec polymer lower handguard, (with steel heat shield), mil-spec poly upper handguard, no extraneous importation marks stamped into the receiver, etc, etc, etc. While SGL21's are on sale, the better choice seems quite obvious to me.. buy a project for ~$349 or buy a finished, mil-spec, (except for selective fire and the Russian OEM folding stock), rifle for $549? Hmmmmmmmm.... With all that said, I did have a lot of fun converting restoring my S-12 myself. But then again, the S-12 is a different animal; models with more factory mil-spec features than the IZ-109 cost several thousands of [color:green]$[/color]. Edited November 20, 2009 by post-apocalyptic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Digger44 0 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ... So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another? I ask, because I trust my work above all others. That's generally a good point, but it'd be a better one if the SGL20/SGL21 didn't exist. They are new Russian rifles, but assembled by Legion, (Izhmash's custom rifle shop), and have many military features that are generally not found in a "sporter" Saiga 7.62x39. Whether or not your rifle will have certain military features is a crap shoot when you buy a "sporter" Saiga. You might get magwell dimples, you might not. You might get a factory-cut pistol grip hole, you might not. You might get a mil-spec chamber, (that doesn't "step" cartridge necks), but you almost certainly will not. Some military features you can be assured you will never get from the factory on a "sporter" Saiga 7.62. These include: a 24x1.5mm RH threaded barrel, a proper bayonet lug, (and accessory lug on the SGL21), a barrel notched for and installed with a mil-spec polymer lower handguard, (with steel heat shield), mil-spec poly upper handguard, no extraneous importation marks stamped into the receiver, etc, etc, etc. While SGL21's are on sale, the better choice seems quite obvious to me.. buy a project for ~$349 or buy a finished, mil-spec, (except for selective fire and the Russian OEM folding stock), rifle for $549? Hmmmmmmmm.... With all that said, I did have a lot of fun converting restoring my S-12 myself. But then again, the S-12 is a different animal; models with more factory mil-spec features than the IZ-109 cost several thousands of [color:green]$[/color]. I don't know how anyone can debate these points. These are why my SGL21 is being delivered to my FFL today. I am so pumped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 So lets see... Dimples? don't do anything from what i've seen. Looks and hype. PG hole, Yeap sure did Mil spec chamber? Why are you reloading your cheap and easily aquired steel milsurp rounds? RH threaded barrel: would cause problems for me in NY anyway, I'll weld my muzzle breaks on. Barrel notched for lower HG: Leave my barrel alone, i want that metal there, and rather like the saiga style handguards available. If i were to go military style the black synthetic would be the last choice anyway... its gotta be wood. I'll save the $200 for parts for my conversion, Take pride in my own work, and very likly wind up with a beter weapon for my own use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 So lets see... Dimples? don't do anything from what i've seen. Looks and hype. PG hole, Yeap sure did Mil spec chamber? Why are you reloading your cheap and easily aquired steel milsurp rounds? RH threaded barrel: would cause problems for me in NY anyway, I'll weld my muzzle breaks on. Barrel notched for lower HG: Leave my barrel alone, i want that metal there, and rather like the saiga style handguards available. If i were to go military style the black synthetic would be the last choice anyway... its gotta be wood. I'll save the $200 for parts for my conversion, Take pride in my own work, and very likly wind up with a beter weapon for my own use. I disagree, but I can see how some people might not care about having a much more militarily "correct" rifle. To each his own. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) So lets see... Dimples? don't do anything from what i've seen. Looks and hype... "Looks and hype" my ass. Those magwell dimples not only stabilize the mag within the magwell, but they also strengthen the receiver and add to its rigidity, which is somewhat important in a ~1mm stamped receiver. PG hole, Yeap sure did.. Hit n miss.. glad yours "hit". Mil spec chamber? Why are you reloading your cheap and easily aquired steel milsurp rounds?... I'm not. However, the chamber should not "step" cartridge necks. This silly-assed Russian "gun control feature" negatively affects muzzle velocity, (it takes energy to "step" that cartridge), and reloadability, which may not affect Russian steel cartridges, but which has a strongly negative effect on brass casings. You may not care; I do. RH threaded barrel: would cause problems for me in NY anyway, I'll weld my muzzle breaks on... That's the fault of your bullshit state laws.. and has nothing whatsoever to do with what is more modern, advantageous, and mil-spec. I like being able to remove my muzzle brake by hand ()... but your state's laws make that verboten. This is sad. Barrel notched for lower HG: Leave my barrel alone, i want that metal there, and rather like the saiga style handguards available. If i were to go military style the black synthetic would be the last choice anyway... its gotta be wood... For correct wooden handguards, the barrel should be factory-notched. You say that you "want that metal there"... the mil-spec notch in the barrel, (to properly mount the lower handguard), is insignificant. If it's a flaw, you better let the Russians know.. before they make battle-proven rifles this way for.. uh.. decades. Yeah.. I'll save the $200 for parts for my conversion, Take pride in my own work, and very likly wind up with a beter weapon for my own use... So, you'll wind up with a weapon without a removable muzzle brake, no bayo lug, (never mind an "accessory lug", (due to your NY laws), a "civilian" barrel/chamber, (that "steps" cartridge necks), "extra" holes in your receiver, an incorrect safety lever and safe/fire positions, and "extra" importation markings. You can't replicate the factory mil-spec features that a SGL20/21 has for $200 or less on a "sporter" Saiga 7.62x39 rifle. I prefer the closest I can buy to an AK-103, (minus selective fire and Russian OEM folding stock). That is the SGL21, assembled by Legion. Ymmv. If I were you, I'd move west. Edited December 17, 2009 by post-apocalyptic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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