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Which AK Derivative?  

83 members have voted

  1. 1. Which AK Derivative would you buy?

    • Saiga 7.62
      55
    • WASR10
      5
    • Arsenal AK
      20
    • "Black Widow Tactical"
      3


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This question might have been asked already, but when I searched for it all I got were about 100 threads on when the saiga-12 ones are being released, heh.

 

Anyway, my question is: once a 7.62 Saiga is modified to accept standard AK magazines, can it also accept the 75rd drums that are available? I've heard that even after conversion the guns can be finicky about mags so I figured I would ask the great minds here if they knew.

 

Also, if given the option between a 7.62 Saiga, WASR-10, Arsenal AK, or one of those "Black Widow Tacticals" (you can find them on Gunsamerica) which would you choose? With my last Saiga I ended up spending about 600 in total after my conversion, so they way I figure it they'll all end up costing me the same. So which would you choose and why?

Edited by Virtuoso
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You can use any AK47/AKM magazine after conversion. I've never heard of any converted saiga being "finicky" (if it was converted properly) with mags.

 

I would not buy anything via GunsAmerica. They allow flimflam artists of all types there.

 

The Saiga is gonna be the best option. Arsenals are very overpriced for what they are.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
This question might have been asked already, but when I searched for it all I got were about 100 threads on when the saiga-12 ones are being released, heh.

 

Anyway, my question is: once a 7.62 Saiga is modified to accept standard AK magazines, can it also accept the 75rd drums that are available? I've heard that even after conversion the guns can be finicky about mags so I figured I would ask the great minds here if they knew.

 

Also, if given the option between a 7.62 Saiga, WASR-10, Arsenal AK, or one of those "Black Widow Tacticals" (you can find them on Gunsamerica) which would you choose? With my last Saiga I ended up spending about 600 in total after my conversion, so they way I figure it they'll all end up costing me the same. So which would you choose and why?

 

 

600 dollars is that with the purchase of the saiga included? arsenals are nice but i like to tinker so i would pick the saiga

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  • 1 year later...

I have a 75 round drum, I've used it once or twice and probably won't use it again. Yes, it is fun shooting it, but it is quite heavy when fully loaded and it is hard to keep a good aim for as long as it takes to empty the drum. Plus at 20-cents-per round you're talking $15 to fill it up. To me the drum is pretty impractical without a bipod, which I'm not going to put on my AK. Maybe if I get a real RPK at some point the drum will be a good option.

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ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. I own two converted Saigas, but I got both of them for well under $500, so I can rationalize it. The Arsenal is a heck of a gun.

 

Thats entirely debatable.

 

You're right, it is. It depends on which Arsenal rifle we're talking about, (could be Bulgarian or Russian), and the skills/resources of whoever's converting restoring the "sporter" Saiga.

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ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ...

So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another?

 

I ask, because I trust my work above all others. :unsure:

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ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ...

So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another?

 

I ask, because I trust my work above all others. :unsure:

 

+1

 

1. "workmanship" - possibly, but vodka specials can happen anywhere. Who would have thought that the home of the Kalashnikov could have screwed up so badly?

 

2. "warranty" - If you use quality guaranteed parts and are sure of your own "workmanship," is this really an issue?

 

I'll take my lovingly restored and meticulously maintained Saiga over the rest!

 

Regards,

 

Sapper

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ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ...

So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another?

 

I ask, because I trust my work above all others. :unsure:

 

:super: You know every square cm of YOUR home converted Saiga. And you can customize it to fit exactly what you want.

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ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ...

So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another?

 

I ask, because I trust my work above all others. :unsure:

 

That's generally a good point, but it'd be a better one if the SGL20/SGL21 didn't exist. They are new Russian rifles, but assembled by Legion, (Izhmash's custom rifle shop), and have many military features that are generally not found in a "sporter" Saiga 7.62x39. Whether or not your rifle will have certain military features is a crap shoot when you buy a "sporter" Saiga. You might get magwell dimples, you might not. You might get a factory-cut pistol grip hole, you might not. You might get a mil-spec chamber, (that doesn't "step" cartridge necks), but you almost certainly will not.

 

Some military features you can be assured you will never get from the factory on a "sporter" Saiga 7.62. These include: a 24x1.5mm RH threaded barrel, a proper bayonet lug, (and accessory lug on the SGL21), a barrel notched for and installed with a mil-spec polymer lower handguard, (with steel heat shield), mil-spec poly upper handguard, no extraneous importation marks stamped into the receiver, etc, etc, etc.

 

While SGL21's are on sale, the better choice seems quite obvious to me.. buy a project for ~$349 or buy a finished, mil-spec, (except for selective fire and the Russian OEM folding stock), rifle for $549? Hmmmmmmmm.... :D

 

With all that said, I did have a lot of fun converting restoring my S-12 myself. But then again, the S-12 is a different animal; models with more factory mil-spec features than the IZ-109 cost several thousands of [color:green]$[/color].

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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  • 4 weeks later...

ARSENAL. Factory built is better than home made, if for no other reason than warrantee/workmanship issues. ...

So, you do not trust yourself and refuse to stand behind your own work? Or are you refering to the homebrew of another?

 

I ask, because I trust my work above all others. :unsure:

 

That's generally a good point, but it'd be a better one if the SGL20/SGL21 didn't exist. They are new Russian rifles, but assembled by Legion, (Izhmash's custom rifle shop), and have many military features that are generally not found in a "sporter" Saiga 7.62x39. Whether or not your rifle will have certain military features is a crap shoot when you buy a "sporter" Saiga. You might get magwell dimples, you might not. You might get a factory-cut pistol grip hole, you might not. You might get a mil-spec chamber, (that doesn't "step" cartridge necks), but you almost certainly will not.

 

Some military features you can be assured you will never get from the factory on a "sporter" Saiga 7.62. These include: a 24x1.5mm RH threaded barrel, a proper bayonet lug, (and accessory lug on the SGL21), a barrel notched for and installed with a mil-spec polymer lower handguard, (with steel heat shield), mil-spec poly upper handguard, no extraneous importation marks stamped into the receiver, etc, etc, etc.

 

While SGL21's are on sale, the better choice seems quite obvious to me.. buy a project for ~$349 or buy a finished, mil-spec, (except for selective fire and the Russian OEM folding stock), rifle for $549? Hmmmmmmmm.... :D

 

With all that said, I did have a lot of fun converting restoring my S-12 myself. But then again, the S-12 is a different animal; models with more factory mil-spec features than the IZ-109 cost several thousands of [color:green]$[/color].

 

 

I don't know how anyone can debate these points. These are why my SGL21 is being delivered to my FFL today. I am so pumped.

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So lets see...

 

Dimples? don't do anything from what i've seen. Looks and hype.

 

PG hole, Yeap sure did

 

Mil spec chamber? Why are you reloading your cheap and easily aquired steel milsurp rounds?

 

RH threaded barrel: would cause problems for me in NY anyway, I'll weld my muzzle breaks on.

 

Barrel notched for lower HG: Leave my barrel alone, i want that metal there, and rather like the saiga style handguards available. If i were to go military style the black synthetic would be the last choice anyway... its gotta be wood.

 

I'll save the $200 for parts for my conversion, Take pride in my own work, and very likly wind up with a beter weapon for my own use.

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So lets see...

 

Dimples? don't do anything from what i've seen. Looks and hype.

 

PG hole, Yeap sure did

 

Mil spec chamber? Why are you reloading your cheap and easily aquired steel milsurp rounds?

 

RH threaded barrel: would cause problems for me in NY anyway, I'll weld my muzzle breaks on.

 

Barrel notched for lower HG: Leave my barrel alone, i want that metal there, and rather like the saiga style handguards available. If i were to go military style the black synthetic would be the last choice anyway... its gotta be wood.

 

I'll save the $200 for parts for my conversion, Take pride in my own work, and very likly wind up with a beter weapon for my own use.

 

I disagree, but I can see how some people might not care about having a much more militarily "correct" rifle.

 

To each his own.

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So lets see...

 

Dimples? don't do anything from what i've seen. Looks and hype...

 

"Looks and hype" my ass. Those magwell dimples not only stabilize the mag within the magwell, but they also strengthen the receiver and add to its rigidity, which is somewhat important in a ~1mm stamped receiver. :huh:

 

PG hole, Yeap sure did..

 

Hit n miss.. glad yours "hit".

 

Mil spec chamber? Why are you reloading your cheap and easily aquired steel milsurp rounds?...

 

I'm not. However, the chamber should not "step" cartridge necks. This silly-assed Russian "gun control feature" negatively affects muzzle velocity, (it takes energy to "step" that cartridge), and reloadability, which may not affect Russian steel cartridges, but which has a strongly negative effect on brass casings. You may not care; I do.

 

RH threaded barrel: would cause problems for me in NY anyway, I'll weld my muzzle breaks on...

 

That's the fault of your bullshit state laws.. and has nothing whatsoever to do with what is more modern, advantageous, and mil-spec. I like being able to remove my muzzle brake by hand (:D)... but your state's laws make that verboten. This is sad.

 

Barrel notched for lower HG: Leave my barrel alone, i want that metal there, and rather like the saiga style handguards available. If i were to go military style the black synthetic would be the last choice anyway... its gotta be wood...

 

For correct wooden handguards, the barrel should be factory-notched. You say that you "want that metal there"... the mil-spec notch in the barrel, (to properly mount the lower handguard), is insignificant. If it's a flaw, you better let the Russians know.. before they make battle-proven rifles this way for.. uh.. decades. Yeah.. :rolleyes:

 

I'll save the $200 for parts for my conversion, Take pride in my own work, and very likly wind up with a beter weapon for my own use...

 

So, you'll wind up with a weapon without a removable muzzle brake, no bayo lug, (never mind an "accessory lug", (due to your NY laws), a "civilian" barrel/chamber, (that "steps" cartridge necks), "extra" holes in your receiver, an incorrect safety lever and safe/fire positions, and "extra" importation markings. :031:

 

You can't replicate the factory mil-spec features that a SGL20/21 has for $200 or less on a "sporter" Saiga 7.62x39 rifle.

 

I prefer the closest I can buy to an AK-103, (minus selective fire and Russian OEM folding stock). That is the SGL21, assembled by Legion.

 

Ymmv. :D

 

If I were you, I'd move west.

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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