pistonring8 1 Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I was at Cabelas Friday (boy is that place crazy!) and got 500 rounds of 7.62x39 Wolf ammo in the ammo can. And happen to notice that the Winchester and Remington shotguns have the trigger group at the rear of the reciever like the Saiga. Being the "what the hell" kinda guy that I am, I also picked up this top folder that comes with adapter blocks for both of the above mentioned shottys. After a little tinkering around with the adapter blocks, I figured it would be easier to cut off my Saiga stock and use that as an adapter. All I had to do was make the cut end of the Saiga stock match the angle and mount type of a shotgun. OK, heres the straight poop on adding a pistol grip and not moving the fcg forward. If you thought your Saiga was barrel heavy before......HA! I like the idea because it stands alone from the multitude of AK variants. But it is not comfortable to handle. Add a 30 round mag and a scope, and it feels like trying to hold a hammer by the last 3 inches of the handle! I would not recomend doing this. Hear my warning and do the standard conversion. It is also a pain in the anus trying to come up with enough US made parts to be compliant. I ended up spending more and replacing more than if I would have done it the old fashioned way. (I cant use a normal trigger) But here it is anyway, for all to behold.... I should have titled this post "pistonring's folly" On a possitive note- The vented gas tube actually DID give me better acuracy. I took about an inch off of my 100 yard moa and am shooting through the same holes, or at least making them touch, at 25 yards. My 50 yard targets look exactly the same, though this might be just the shooter (me). Unfortunately I did NOT notice an increased muzzle flash. and the noise was about the same if not even a little quieter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 pistonring8, It looks cool and your idea was unique. It was rather resourceful of you to cut and use the Saiga adaptor for the receiver than to purchase an aftermarket delron composite. Too bad your not happy with the mod. rifle as far as the balance goes. My guess is you have more cash tied up that if you would have done the conversion and used a foreign folder. Does the front heavy problem exist both when folded and extended? I am doing a furniture makeover on mine since my recent posting. I have some of the parts I need and am waiting for the rest to be delivered. I'll have more tied up in window dressing than I do in the rifle and new trigger group. Mine will involve a little custom carving as well. I'll post when I'm through. Thanks for sharing the picture and honest input about the final product. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Looks great, definitaly one-of--kind! Have you tried weighting the stock to give it better balance? Tie a few wheel weights in a bag and tie it to the back till you get the balance you like, then add the same weight permanenty? Just a thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 That is why I am putting a front pistol grip.. for firing with the stock folded. Unless you add ALOT of weight to the rear! And a laser for non-aimed/sighted fire :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Doerdie. I guess I owe you a beer since this is my 100th post and I can see that you hit it waaaayyy back! I know a place not too far from my range. Let me know when your comming. As far as the rifle being front heavy, I will just have to live with it for a while. I am going to add the muzzlebreak (just came today) and see if I can get used to it. I dont want to add any weight to the rear though, the poor thing has almost doubled its front weight since I got it, and the thing I like about the Saiga is that it is relatively light. And if I just cant bear to shoulder it anymore, I will go ahead and do the classic conversion. It still fires very well, and the lower possition on the shotgun stock gives me a nice angle to see through the scope. But like I said, Ill just have to try and get used to the new configuration. By the way, you guys that like to bump fire these things should look into venting the gas tube, it nearly DOUBLES the rate of fire when your bouncing off rounds! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brian33x51 1 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 I put one of those stocks on my Mossberg 500 and I just hate it. Talk about total transferrence of recoil. And not comfortable. But it does look cool . Hopefully you have another one that's more functional! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Pistonring8-- SOMEBODY HAD TO DO IT! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Wolverine, The rifle actually feels very balanced in the folded possition. But when the heck would I ever fire it like that? (Ecept ofcourse if I hear glass breaking at 3:00 am) I did ofcourse bump off a few to test out my vented gas tube. But the extended possition is 1" longer than the hunting stock putting the weight way out in front. I am going to drive it like that for a while and try to get used to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 I hear them lasers can really weigh a gun down? No matter what if feels like, it is one Bad A$$ looking Saiga! On a scale of 1-10 it rates a 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerboy6996 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 I agree with Doeordie... looks bad a** And definitely an original..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Thanks guys, I dont feel quite so bad about it now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunslinger308 0 Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 I read somewhere on a shotgun forum that if you use a pistol grip, then you should also have the vertical foregrip to help control the muzzle. They even shot skeet with a gun set up this way.( no stock, just pistol grip) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Wow, I couldent even imagine trying to shoot acurately without a shoulder pad. I looked at the vertical foregrip but it reminds me too much of a buttplug to actually put one on my rifle. I think that this stock will work out ok, I have so much time and agrivation wrapped up in it (mostly the comliance parts) that I wont feel like changing anything else for a while. Although I just got my muzzlebrake in the mail, and it looks like Im going to have to do a little trimming on the fsb to make it fit right. Do you think the fsb trim would be something others on the site would be interested in? I could take pics at different steps and write brief descriptions of the steps I took to make the AK 74 pin on style brake slip far enough down the barrel to be mounted safely and correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) Foregrip reminds you of a buttplug? (wiping tears from my eyes ) Edited January 10, 2005 by Doerdie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerboy6996 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 buttplug???? dude isnt this twice in the last week that you have brought up sodomy???? lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smiley_Guy 2 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I, for one, would be very interested to see how the trimmed FSB works out. I was thinking of using a sleeve to attach one. I DO NOT want to press the FSB off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I saw a post on AK47 that trimmed the FSB. The dude cut into the barrel a bit. Actually he said he accidentally made "deep cuts". With a machining background you should be ok just go slow. I was thinking about a tubing cutter but that aint going to cut it (no pun intended) since there is no play in the metal. I was thinking about threading the FSB, screwing on a brake and tack welding it. Think it might work? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) Same here. I have read that pinned on brakes are preferred to threaded if done right. I have no interest in pressing off the FSB. PS......pistonring8, a buttplug?????? Don't forget that lube site. Wolverine Edited January 10, 2005 by Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Ha Ha! Yea, I guess that is the second time I brought up something of that nature. OK, This week I will mount the brake without pressing off the fsb (even though I have a perfectly good press) and give a detailed post on how easy it is. The muzzle brake has two "steps" inside it. The first fits over the fsb. The inner step will fit over the barrel only. So I will have to trim off about an inch of the fsb. You all know how important it is to have the muzzle brake mounted PERFECTLY straight right? Well, even if the cut on the fsb is not geometrically perfect, the barrel diameter inside the brake will keep the brake at a perfect angle. So no super genius tools will be needed. I also read the series of threads that led to the destruction of that barrel. The guy had the right idea, but just wasent paying close enough attention to his cuts. If done correctly, I should be able to mount this brake with the pin safely and securely without needing any weld or threading. And if I need it to be "permanant" all I have to do is add a metal to metal bonding agent like Perma-lock Permatex, or Permanant Locktite. On an application like this, it will be as strong as any tack weld, without the heat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) pistonring8, Actually I believe it is three times. Check your third paragraph at the start of this string: "pain in the ...." Freud might think it was a fixation but we know it's really that Scorpion your obsessing on. Ah, it's Saiga envy!! Wolverine Edited January 10, 2005 by Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Hey pistonring8 I put one of those pin on 74 style on my AK even after hearing all kinds of warnings from other AKheads not to waste my time on one because it would surely come loose and fly off downrange. Well don't listen to any of that kind of talk cause their all full of $h!t. Mine has stood the test of many rounds and it's just as tight as it was the day I tapped it in place with a brass hammer. I didn't have to use any kind of locktite or anything but I did beef up the pin to be sure.. Used a cut off 1/8" drill bit and trimmed it off flush with the brake for a very tight fit. Had to bevel the leading edge and sand it down a bit to get it in but that mutha ain't goin' nowhere! Just an idea. Like your signature, Megadeth rocks!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jon elia 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 someone already cut the fsb and posted pics and descriptions they did it on a .223 and a 7.62 but go for it post the pics again so we will have 2 times the input incase we want to try it too... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Cobra- That is the EXACT brake I just bought. (sweet piece huh?)Unfortunately the Saiga's fsb is solid at the base of the sight and the barrel needs to protrude from the fsb to seat properly in the brake. I saw the other post on making the muzzle brake fit but I want to try and improve on it. I believe the outer sleeve on the Saiga fsb can be trimmed back without damageing the barrel. And this can be done simply and without a risk of screw up. Yours is mounted perfectly on the barrel/fsb and there is no risk of ever blowing the piece off when its done right. The pin on style gets a bad rap from novice retro fitters half @$$ing the application. Nice job on the improved pin, your right- it will be snowing in he!! before that ever comes loose! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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