Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Well i went shooting yesterday to see how my converted saiga felt and shot. It felt great! but shot really shitty. Prior to the conversion it was really stubborn and i sent it back to EAA, it was returned to me a few weeks later and would only accept Australian surplus ammo and expensive hunting rounds like federal and so on. What could the problem be? this has really been bothering me, and EAA didnt fully fix the problem. It still wont cycle the rounds correctly. Help me out guys. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doerdie 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Be a little more specific...is it FTF, FTE, stovepiping? Do you get an ejector dent on the fired brass(steel)? Primer strikes look ok? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Be a little more specific...is it FTF, FTE, stovepiping? Do you get an ejector dent on the fired brass(steel)? Primer strikes look ok? Yeah... Info, please! Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 The primer strikes are beautiful, It fires the round, ejects it most of the time, then tries to reload another but just dents the casing. Other times it will complete the process and reload another round, but i have yet to fire a whole mag without problems. I did customize the mag so it can take 10 rounds rather than 8, and i cut the spring as well. What is FTF and FTE?? Thanks for your help guys ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Failure To Feed or Fire (not sure which) Failure To Extract Try using an unmodified magazine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks, It does fail to feed, and it fails to extract at times too, at times it even stove pipes, i have all sorts of problems apparently. What should i do, is there a checklist of things that i could do to find the problem? Thanks again ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Try an unmodified magazine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Stovepiping, when the fired round fails to eject but another round is already trying to feed. Is this the correct example/explanation of stovepiping? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 tries to reload another but just dents the casing. Other times it will complete the process and reload another round, but i have yet to fire a whole mag without problems. I did customize the mag so it can take 10 rounds rather than 8, and i cut the spring as well. ~Seth It's your mag mod job... I'm like 99.999% sure of this. Tell us WHAT you did to modify the mag to work. Did you REMOVE the locking plate -the plate ABOVE the floor plate that locks it in place? If not, do so. And, did you trim the bottom of the FOLLOWER? You didn't remove the "stops" on the folower, did you...the cast in projections on the bottom front of the follower that go in a track -and, are "stopped' at the correct height inside the mag body? Herein somewhere is the problem. Note: these mags require "tweaking" in several areas to work -they were designed with care & thought to make this difficult if you were not sure of what you were doing. Too much or too little attention results in problems. What did you do??? Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Ok my magazine is disassembled and pictured below. What i did was trim the tongs, not cut them off, and the follower still has guiding things on the side of it still. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 (edited) Leave the floor plate 'locking plate and mag spring base" (the thing you indicate as having "tongs")... OUT OF THE MAGAZINE completely (it will cause problems with the mod if you don't)! The spring appears oriented correctly -pushes on the BACK of the follower, not the front. Do this and see if it won't work -you should be able to cycle live rounds by hand manipulation of the action (if it works, it'll work when fired). TAKE CARE TO NOT FIRE OFF A ROUND, watch your direction ( easier to make a mistake when dinkering than people think). Let us know. Good luck. Lollygagger Edited January 10, 2005 by lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks for your time lollygagger. I'll give it a shot and get back to ya. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 not much of a contribution I know, but here goes... "Do this and see if it won't work -you should be able to cycle live rounds by hand manipulation of the action (if it works, it'll work when fired). TAKE CARE TO NOT FIRE OFF A ROUND" Lollygagger has just listed the best justification for having at least 10 dummy rounds for any caliber you own. They are easy enough to make and not that expensive. Take some fired cases, clean them up, and seat a cheap bullet in the neck of the cartridge, to the correct overall length. One can generally find pulled bullets from military ammunition pretty cheaply, anywhere reloading supplies can be found. Hell, you could even use new brass if you wanted to. Oh well, that's all for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I've been playing around with my saiga, and also notice that the bolt and bolt carrier are hanging up on my new hammer that came with the G2 kit. have you guys had any problems with this before? I think I'm going to Carefully radius the edges of the hammer, that should free it up a little, along with the magazine Fix. Thanks again. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric86GT 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I put in a G2 FCG in my 7.62x39. I noticed that the bolt and carrier were hanging up on the new hammer as well. I reinstalled the Saiga hammer to see how the clearances were and it cycled fine, so I ground the hammer down to match the Saiga hammer and reinstalled the G2 hammer. I took it to the range and it would fire and eject, but would not recock the hammer. While chambering the next round the hammer would follow the bolt, leaving a dent in the primer. The potential for slamfire scared me. I had ground down too much material. I realized I needed a new hammer and wanted something other than Tapco. The cheapest I saw was Red Star Arms for $26.99, but I could get a complete FSE FCG for $29.95 and that's what I did. At least I'll have a spare trigger and disconnector. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
verdejt 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 The trigger from Red Star Arms is fully adjustable so you don't have to resurface any part of the FCG. Sometimes you do have to mill down a part of the safety lever. I'm not a big fan of milling down a FCG on anything, mostly due to 99% of the time one gets overeager to get it "just right" resulting in about 1/2 lb of scrap metal. IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I've been playing around with my saiga, and also notice that the bolt and bolt carrier are hanging up on my new hammer that came with the G2 kit. have you guys had any problems with this before? I think I'm going to Carefully radius the edges of the hammer, that should free it up a little, along with the magazine Fix. Thanks again.~Seth O.K... You changed the lockwork, too! Adds alot to the factors invovled that could cause problems. I'd say "short" load your mag till you see how the lockwork is doing. Then, go from there. I suspect you are going to have to do some fitting work on the hammer. Best, Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan762 0 Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 He may be talking about when you pull back the bolt carrier and then start to ease it forward. You can feel it hang up on the hammer face. This is NORMAL due to the shape of the two parts. The bolt itself has sharp angles on the wear surface that contacts more sharp angles on the hammer. What you feel is these two angles sliding over one another creating some hang. Sometims it will actually hold your bolt back if you ease the carrier forward. This will wear over time or you can round off these surfaces on the bottom of the bolt and that wil help. If you can pull the bolt back all the way as if under recoil and let it fly forward with no hangups then its fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Well i sanded a little bit of material off of my hammer with my dremel and also got some polishing compound and made it nice and slippery, i went over pretty much all areas that i saw were rubbing including the bottom of the bolt carrier being careful not to take more than enough off. and the areas directed to on one of the sights regarding the trigger group to smooth things up a little. To finnish it off i put a light coat of white lithium grease over the metal to metal contacting surfaces doing everything i can to reduce the friction between the metal to metal parts. I'll let ya know how it shoots and if i did indeed solve the problem. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Went Shooting today, After sanding some surfaces and smoothing out the action, my saiga still wont cycle consistently. At this point im thinking it has got to be the mag. So im gonna go and buy another mag. From somewhere, dont know where, seems like veryone is running out of them. BUT that's fine with me sense the 20 rounders are in the making. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Bought a new 8 round mag. saiga still continues to not cycle!!! whats the deal? I'm determined to figure this out, should i take it to a gun smith? the design on these rifles are so easy, and i have had problems with this rifle ever sense i bought it brand new. Help me out guys. Sometimes the rifle wont eject the shell, sometimes it will eject a shell but will fail to load another, and sometimes it doesnt eject the shell and tries to reload another at the same time. Has anyone else had problems with this? what else could it be, i smoothed out the internals and got it as smooth as i could, bolt carrier still seems to get caught up on the hammer when pulling bolt carrier back, but that's normal. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) Sounds to me that it MIGHT BE THE BEST BET to take it to a "professional" that can check everything out for you... WIthout being able to handle the rifle, and see for myself, ( and the rest of the guys here, too, probably feel the same way).... Its difficult to offer ACCURATE tech support. From what I have read... it seems theres something else tweaking out inside... might be a QUICK simple fix... might not.... let a pro check it over... the few bucks it will cost you will certainly be well spent if he gets it fixed for you PROPERLY!!! Edited January 25, 2005 by IndyArms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smiley_Guy 2 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Got me curious now. What ammo? Tried different types? on the fail to feed where exactly does everything stop? Is the bullet touching the barrel? Is the bolt on top of the cartrige? It seems like two different problems but both of them involve the bolt. It seems to me like they could both be caused by a deformed bolt carrier or one that doesn't have the hole that carries the bolt machined squarely. A bolt face that sits unsquare could both fail to engage the extractor and fail to reliably catch the edge of the next round. Of course a dirty bolt could cause it too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 O.K... If it is hanging up irregularly, and... it's not the mag, and not handing on the lockwork, then... usually it is in the gas system (not a weak or problem areas with the AK/Saiga -so... A area associated with the previous is the gas piston/gas tube/and the junction of the piston to the carrier. Take a look here. If it drags, it could cause the reported malfunctions. The gas piston/carrier junction on the Saiga is fixed solid -unlike most AK's -where it is left loose to make up fore variances (the various fixtures are rarely all "true"). Look for excessive wear on the piston...wear in just one area. And, look at how true the fixtures are on the gun. If the fixtures are a bit off center, you usually can eyeball it to tell. In such a case, it will either "wear" in...ore the piston will have to be re-set with a little looseness in it to get around everytrhing a bit easier. Just some thoughts. Good luck, Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Okay the ammo is Australian Surplus, i tried portugease, american, and australian before i converted my rifle to pistol grip and australian is the only one that cycled properly. I'd take a shot, the bolt carrier would eject the shell most of the time, sometimes not ejecting it at all. Id take another shot, and it would fire and eject shell but fail to load another. A dirty bolt is not an option, i clean my rifle everytime i shoot it, i fully dissassemble it, cleaning everything, and re-oiling it all. I also polished the internals of the rifle and put a light coat of white lithium grease on the metal to metal parts. ~Seth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 This was the only spot i saw that was rubbing on the bolt carrier/piston, doesnt hang it up that much though. but hey it could be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good_stuff4me 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 i have sent this rifle back to EAA. before, because of the same reason. And they sent me a piece of paper that said they Replaced and fit new bolt support, and it test fired ok. What else could go wrong? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 What else could go wrong? Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hutch 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 A preist will come to his home, and exorcise his kid...errrr....rifle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smiley_Guy 2 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 bolt support??? Wonder what that is. When it fails to feed will it feed if you just push it forward, maybe wiggle it a bit? I take it you think the 'rubbing' is keeping it from feeding? I'm starting to think Lollygagger is on to something. You mean that when it doesn't extract the bolt doesn't come back? Maybe the extractor is holding but the piston just isn't pushing it. Might check the gas port too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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