Has anyone shot their new drum yet?

[OG12C 0]

I am interested in hearing about new md 20 owners who have put their drums to the test. I recieved mine this past week my first impressions are good. I do have an original 12c that didn't have to be converted. Not sure if that had anything to do with this but it took alot of fitting for the drum to lock in. The only 12ga ammo at the house now are a few cases of wolf high brass 00 buck. I know what was said but I had to try it anyways. The rounds were a hairs width too long for the drum and were sticking in the body I believe this is why Mike talks about turning the spring rate up. Anyways after my thorough inspection I have modified a few things on the drum without turning the spring rate past 3 and the drum is digesting the hight brass ammo with out hick up. This is not intended to be negative in anyways towards MD Arms just giving my review. I love the drum and wouldn't get rid of it or trade it for anything else. I will be purchasing another one. Not all drums are the same I am sure so the mods I performed will not be disclosed in this post but if you are having the same issues I had then send me an email and I will respond with photos on what I did. I will say that the mods I did are not crazy or drastic.

[russm4a3 5]

I took my two drums out today and had multiple FTE with both drums using the wallyworld Winchester and Remington bulk packs. The longest stretch of rounds fired was 12. Has anyone else had issues with these types of rounds? I left the spring setting on the drum on 3 and my shotgun was on the 2 setting. Im going out again tomorrow after I try adjusting the spring to 2 to see how that goes. Any tips, thoughts?

[rotortuner 0]

I am interested in hearing about new md 20 owners who have put their drums to the test. I recieved mine this past week my first impressions are good. I do have an original 12c that didn't have to be converted. Not sure if that had anything to do with this but it took alot of fitting for the drum to lock in. The only 12ga ammo at the house now are a few cases of wolf high brass 00 buck. I know what was said but I had to try it anyways. The rounds were a hairs width too long for the drum and were sticking in the body I believe this is why Mike talks about turning the spring rate up. Anyways after my thorough inspection I have modified a few things on the drum without turning the spring rate past 3 and the drum is digesting the hight brass ammo with out hick up. This is not intended to be negative in anyways towards MD Arms just giving my review. I love the drum and wouldn't get rid of it or trade it for anything else. I will be purchasing another one. Not all drums are the same I am sure so the mods I performed will not be disclosed in this post but if you are having the same issues I had then send me an email and I will respond with photos on what I did. I will say that the mods I did are not crazy or drastic.

 

If that is the roll crimped wolf stuff. he specifically said that stuff wasnt supposed to work, because its over 2.4" , Make sure and read his post that is stickied at the top about ammo types, he gives pretty clear directions about just how much you can turn the spring up without screwing stuff up.

 

CJG

[MikeD 541]

I am interested in hearing about new md 20 owners who have put their drums to the test. I recieved mine this past week my first impressions are good. I do have an original 12c that didn't have to be converted. Not sure if that had anything to do with this but it took alot of fitting for the drum to lock in. The only 12ga ammo at the house now are a few cases of wolf high brass 00 buck. I know what was said but I had to try it anyways. The rounds were a hairs width too long for the drum and were sticking in the body I believe this is why Mike talks about turning the spring rate up. Anyways after my thorough inspection I have modified a few things on the drum without turning the spring rate past 3 and the drum is digesting the hight brass ammo with out hick up. This is not intended to be negative in anyways towards MD Arms just giving my review. I love the drum and wouldn't get rid of it or trade it for anything else. I will be purchasing another one. Not all drums are the same I am sure so the mods I performed will not be disclosed in this post but if you are having the same issues I had then send me an email and I will respond with photos on what I did. I will say that the mods I did are not crazy or drastic.

Curious what you have done and what you was experiencing before and after. Thanks!

[MikeD 541]

I took my two drums out today and had multiple FTE with both drums using the wallyworld Winchester and Remington bulk packs. The longest stretch of rounds fired was 12. Has anyone else had issues with these types of rounds? I left the spring setting on the drum on 3 and my shotgun was on the 2 setting. Im going out again tomorrow after I try adjusting the spring to 2 to see how that goes. Any tips, thoughts?

That doesn't sound right. FTE's??? Have you experienced this with other mags? Reducing the spring tension may help reduce some drag but it sure sounds like you might could use a light polishing (not grinding) to the bolt and a couple other areas. I am betting this gun is converted. Sometimes a converted gun can put a little extra drag on the bolt. Please fill in some more details about your gun and results with other mags and the same ammo. Also was you shooting from the hip or shoulder? Even if it is from the hip you still shouldn't be experiencing this. I do know the winchester value pack is about the worst round for FTE's and the Remington is only slightly better. The Federal value pack has more power than the other 2 and is cheaper (here at least) than the other 2.

[TTR 1]

I took my MD-20 out for a spin the other night. I used my buddy's Cadiz converted SG. With minor filing to the rear clip on the drum it locked in tight. I used Walmart Federal value pack. Loaded up with NO lubrication and NO adjustments on the spring. Fired 20 rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger. No problems at all. The drum functioned perfectly.

[Berszerk 0]

I am interested in hearing about new md 20 owners who have put their drums to the test. I recieved mine this past week my first impressions are good. I do have an original 12c that didn't have to be converted. Not sure if that had anything to do with this but it took alot of fitting for the drum to lock in. The only 12ga ammo at the house now are a few cases of wolf high brass 00 buck. I know what was said but I had to try it anyways. The rounds were a hairs width too long for the drum and were sticking in the body I believe this is why Mike talks about turning the spring rate up. Anyways after my thorough inspection I have modified a few things on the drum without turning the spring rate past 3 and the drum is digesting the hight brass ammo with out hick up. This is not intended to be negative in anyways towards MD Arms just giving my review. I love the drum and wouldn't get rid of it or trade it for anything else. I will be purchasing another one. Not all drums are the same I am sure so the mods I performed will not be disclosed in this post but if you are having the same issues I had then send me an email and I will respond with photos on what I did. I will say that the mods I did are not crazy or drastic.

Curious what you have done and what you was experiencing before and after. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

Please let us know what youve done, I hope it works for us all.

[russm4a3 5]

I took my two drums out today and had multiple FTE with both drums using the wallyworld Winchester and Remington bulk packs. The longest stretch of rounds fired was 12. Has anyone else had issues with these types of rounds? I left the spring setting on the drum on 3 and my shotgun was on the 2 setting. Im going out again tomorrow after I try adjusting the spring to 2 to see how that goes. Any tips, thoughts?

That doesn't sound right. FTE's??? Have you experienced this with other mags? Reducing the spring tension may help reduce some drag but it sure sounds like you might could use a light polishing (not grinding) to the bolt and a couple other areas. I am betting this gun is converted. Sometimes a converted gun can put a little extra drag on the bolt. Please fill in some more details about your gun and results with other mags and the same ammo. Also was you shooting from the hip or shoulder? Even if it is from the hip you still shouldn't be experiencing this. I do know the winchester value pack is about the worst round for FTE's and the Remington is only slightly better. The Federal value pack has more power than the other 2 and is cheaper (here at least) than the other 2.

 

 

I was mistaken I grabbed the federals and the remingtons (wife was loading the drums for me I was using a tromix converted s12 and prior to the conversion I had no FTE using the same ammunition in AGP mags. I have not used the agp mags in my saiga since its conversion. I was shooting from both the hip and the shoulder. I did not get a chance to go out again today but will Thursday. I will then run the drums through both my converted and uncoverted saiga 12s.

[MikeD 541]

I took my two drums out today and had multiple FTE with both drums using the wallyworld Winchester and Remington bulk packs. The longest stretch of rounds fired was 12. Has anyone else had issues with these types of rounds? I left the spring setting on the drum on 3 and my shotgun was on the 2 setting. Im going out again tomorrow after I try adjusting the spring to 2 to see how that goes. Any tips, thoughts?

That doesn't sound right. FTE's??? Have you experienced this with other mags? Reducing the spring tension may help reduce some drag but it sure sounds like you might could use a light polishing (not grinding) to the bolt and a couple other areas. I am betting this gun is converted. Sometimes a converted gun can put a little extra drag on the bolt. Please fill in some more details about your gun and results with other mags and the same ammo. Also was you shooting from the hip or shoulder? Even if it is from the hip you still shouldn't be experiencing this. I do know the winchester value pack is about the worst round for FTE's and the Remington is only slightly better. The Federal value pack has more power than the other 2 and is cheaper (here at least) than the other 2.

 

 

I was mistaken I grabbed the federals and the remingtons (wife was loading the drums for me I was using a tromix converted s12 and prior to the conversion I had no FTE using the same ammunition in AGP mags. I have not used the agp mags in my saiga since its conversion. I was shooting from both the hip and the shoulder. I did not get a chance to go out again today but will Thursday. I will then run the drums through both my converted and uncoverted saiga 12s.

It is very likely all you need to do is break in the new conversion. Or you can speed up the break in process by polishing up a few areas detailed in this stickied thread in the saiga-12 section, http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20234.

[MikeD 541]

I am interested in hearing about new md 20 owners who have put their drums to the test. I recieved mine this past week my first impressions are good. I do have an original 12c that didn't have to be converted. Not sure if that had anything to do with this but it took alot of fitting for the drum to lock in. The only 12ga ammo at the house now are a few cases of wolf high brass 00 buck. I know what was said but I had to try it anyways. The rounds were a hairs width too long for the drum and were sticking in the body I believe this is why Mike talks about turning the spring rate up. Anyways after my thorough inspection I have modified a few things on the drum without turning the spring rate past 3 and the drum is digesting the hight brass ammo with out hick up. This is not intended to be negative in anyways towards MD Arms just giving my review. I love the drum and wouldn't get rid of it or trade it for anything else. I will be purchasing another one. Not all drums are the same I am sure so the mods I performed will not be disclosed in this post but if you are having the same issues I had then send me an email and I will respond with photos on what I did. I will say that the mods I did are not crazy or drastic.

Curious what you have done and what you was experiencing before and after. Thanks!

 

Please let us know what youve done, I hope it works for us all.

 

I really don't want to sound self rightous here or be a naysayer or anything like that but I am very doubtful much will clean up the problem rounds mentioned other than the new spring. I'm not saying that OG12C is wrong or anything because I don't even know what he has done. But I really, really doubt there is much a person can do or try that I haven't already thought of or tried myself. No trimming, smoothing, polishing, lubricating any areas of the drum or it's parts made a consistent, universal difference. The only such solid fix I have found is a stronger spring. I have fired THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of rounds, in many different guns, out of many different drums, spending many, many, days doing it, and thousands of $ in ammo. I find it highly unlikely that OG12C has done enough testing to safely say or prove a fix in just a single weekend. But hey, you never know what a fresh mind on something might find. Again, OG12C, not calling you a liar or anything, not saying you haven't found something either. Maybe what you have done has worked for you. Please post what you have done and concluded with the pics so we can see.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

as far as the O.P.'s question: " Has anyone shot their new drum yet?"

 

My answer is : What???? are you nuts... why would I want to shoot it???

They are hard to get and paper targets are MUCH cheaper!!!!!

[Berszerk 0]

I am interested in hearing about new md 20 owners who have put their drums to the test. I recieved mine this past week my first impressions are good. I do have an original 12c that didn't have to be converted. Not sure if that had anything to do with this but it took alot of fitting for the drum to lock in. The only 12ga ammo at the house now are a few cases of wolf high brass 00 buck. I know what was said but I had to try it anyways. The rounds were a hairs width too long for the drum and were sticking in the body I believe this is why Mike talks about turning the spring rate up. Anyways after my thorough inspection I have modified a few things on the drum without turning the spring rate past 3 and the drum is digesting the hight brass ammo with out hick up. This is not intended to be negative in anyways towards MD Arms just giving my review. I love the drum and wouldn't get rid of it or trade it for anything else. I will be purchasing another one. Not all drums are the same I am sure so the mods I performed will not be disclosed in this post but if you are having the same issues I had then send me an email and I will respond with photos on what I did. I will say that the mods I did are not crazy or drastic.

Curious what you have done and what you was experiencing before and after. Thanks!

 

Please let us know what youve done, I hope it works for us all.

 

I really don't want to sound self rightous here or be a naysayer or anything like that but I am very doubtful much will clean up the problem rounds mentioned other than the new spring. I'm not saying that OG12C is wrong or anything because I don't even know what he has done. But I really, really doubt there is much a person can do or try that I haven't already thought of or tried myself. No trimming, smoothing, polishing, lubricating any areas of the drum or it's parts made a consistent, universal difference. The only such solid fix I have found is a stronger spring. I have fired THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of rounds, in many different guns, out of many different drums, spending many, many, days doing it, and thousands of $ in ammo. I find it highly unlikely that OG12C has done enough testing to safely say or prove a fix in just a single weekend. But hey, you never know what a fresh mind on something might find. Again, OG12C, not calling you a liar or anything, not saying you haven't found something either. Maybe what you have done has worked for you. Please post what you have done and concluded with the pics so we can see.

 

 

 

 

 

Ill be waiting for the spring, but in the meantime modifying some of the few Wolf rounds I own, just to test a theory of mine, once I get my drums. I feel a major mod even if effective will be far to risky as far as the drums are concerned, my gunsmithing skills are as limited as my cash flow, unfortunately. What do you guys think of melting the roll crimp inward or even close to off, then trimming the edges? No open flames of course. Maybey even grinding a few rounds down?

[Twinsen 86]

Grinding the roll crimp isn't possible, it's rolled plastic, if you cut the outside of it at all, it will just fall off. Melting it down could work, but note that it will increase pressure. Be warned of that.

[mavrick16o 6]

[DavePAL84 1]

I shot mine the day after I received it last week. Fired a myriad of ammunition through it. No failures, everything ran smooth. Put some winchester bulk slugs through it, some military 00 buck, some federal, winchester AA, and some other stuff and not a problem with any of it. Hornady TAP low-recoil buck and they wouldn't feed on setting #1 for me--it's the same for mags too. Once I switched to setting #2 it ran just fine.

 

It took quite a bit of fitting to get it to lock into the gun. I had to do both the "A" and "B" modifications. After firing a couple of slugs the little remaining notch broke off (I did keep the edges proper and did not round them off either). However, even after it broke off it would still lock in solidly so there is something still there afterall. I'm not going to worry about it too much unless the drum starts falling out during fire (which it has not).

[MikeD 541]

I shot mine the day after I received it last week. Fired a myriad of ammunition through it. No failures, everything ran smooth. Put some winchester bulk slugs through it, some military 00 buck, some federal, winchester AA, and some other stuff and not a problem with any of it. Hornady TAP low-recoil buck and they wouldn't feed on setting #1 for me--it's the same for mags too. Once I switched to setting #2 it ran just fine.

 

It took quite a bit of fitting to get it to lock into the gun. I had to do both the "A" and "B" modifications. After firing a couple of slugs the little remaining notch broke off (I did keep the edges proper and did not round them off either). However, even after it broke off it would still lock in solidly so there is something still there afterall. I'm not going to worry about it too much unless the drum starts falling out during fire (which it has not).

It sounds like you removed way too much material using the b fitting instruction. Only dust should be removed on fitting B. It sounds like you went to fitting B too quickly. Fitting A is for when Izhmash has the rear bearing surface of the mag too far forward in the receiver, which has been quite common lately. If you have the last for of you guns serial number penciled on your 5rd mag it is very likely. They do the fitting A themselves and mark the mag too the gun so it will lock in. If you look at your Russian 5rder I think you will find it is not a sharp edge as shown in the fitting A instruction but more like the completed fitting A pic in the user's manual.

[MikeD 541]

I shot mine the day after I received it last week. Fired a myriad of ammunition through it. No failures, everything ran smooth. Put some winchester bulk slugs through it, some military 00 buck, some federal, winchester AA, and some other stuff and not a problem with any of it. Hornady TAP low-recoil buck and they wouldn't feed on setting #1 for me--it's the same for mags too. Once I switched to setting #2 it ran just fine.

 

It took quite a bit of fitting to get it to lock into the gun. I had to do both the "A" and "B" modifications. After firing a couple of slugs the little remaining notch broke off (I did keep the edges proper and did not round them off either). However, even after it broke off it would still lock in solidly so there is something still there afterall. I'm not going to worry about it too much unless the drum starts falling out during fire (which it has not).

It sounds like you removed way too much material using the b fitting instruction. Only dust should be removed on fitting B. It sounds like you went to fitting B too quickly. Fitting A is for when Izhmash has the rear bearing surface of the mag too far forward in the receiver, which has been quite common lately. If you have the last for of you guns serial number penciled on your 5rd mag it is very likely. They do the fitting A themselves and mark the mag too the gun so it will lock in. If you look at your Russian 5rder I think you will find it is not a sharp edge as shown in the fitting A instruction but more like the completed fitting A pic in the user's manual.

If it does start falling out on you send it back to me and I will weld some plastic back on it with my plastic welder.

[DavePAL84 1]

If it does start falling out on you send it back to me and I will weld some plastic back on it with my plastic welder.

 

I really appreciate that. Hopefully it won't become a problem.

[gixser 0]

Fired 200 Fiocchi Shells with no problem plus another 80-100 reloads. Left spring at default setting

 

 

Thanks Mike you Rock

[OG12C 0]

Well I don't modify the rounds and I don't recommend that either berszerk. Also I think all things can be improved apon I believe you're alittle bias and you have the right to be Mike. I just shot two full drums of the wolf high brass 00 buck with the roll crimp with out hick up. I have read the warnings on what ammo to use. I don't settle for what will work but I work to see how much 2 3/4" ammo I can get to work not just cheap bulk loads found at walmart. I am not bad talking the drum I want to see them enter mass production and not have waiting list and long wait time and be as available as possible. I also wan't them to work as well at they possibly can and I am sure everyone else does especially Mike the customers who have waited a year plus for delevery. These drums rock and I don't have any complaints I just want them to perform the way Mike said they would in his posts bashing the wm and its ammo limitations and mods that would have to be performed in order to use.

[Monk 0]

Well I don't modify the rounds and I don't recommend that either berszerk. Also I think all things can be improved apon I believe you're alittle bias and you have the right to be Mike. I just shot two full drums of the wolf high brass 00 buck with the roll crimp with out hick up. I have read the warnings on what ammo to use. I don't settle for what will work but I work to see how much 2 3/4" ammo I can get to work not just cheap bulk loads found at walmart. I am not bad talking the drum I want to see them enter mass production and not have waiting list and long wait time and be as available as possible. I also wan't them to work as well at they possibly can and I am sure everyone else does especially Mike the customers who have waited a year plus for delevery. These drums rock and I don't have any complaints I just want them to perform the way Mike said they would in his posts bashing the wm and its ammo limitations and mods that would have to be performed in order to use.

So what modification did you do to the drum?

[MikeD 541]

Well I don't modify the rounds and I don't recommend that either berszerk. Also I think all things can be improved apon I believe you're alittle bias and you have the right to be Mike. I just shot two full drums of the wolf high brass 00 buck with the roll crimp with out hick up. I have read the warnings on what ammo to use. I don't settle for what will work but I work to see how much 2 3/4" ammo I can get to work not just cheap bulk loads found at walmart. I am not bad talking the drum I want to see them enter mass production and not have waiting list and long wait time and be as available as possible. I also wan't them to work as well at they possibly can and I am sure everyone else does especially Mike the customers who have waited a year plus for delevery. These drums rock and I don't have any complaints I just want them to perform the way Mike said they would in his posts bashing the wm and its ammo limitations and mods that would have to be performed in order to use.

 

OG12C, I wasn't trying to rub you the wrong way. My biggest concern here is that people will start fiddling and filling when there is a very simple FREE solution laid out already for first run customers. I'm afraid people will mess their drums up. Or waste their time and money just too verify what I said about the troubled ammos.

 

The thing about the WM is it isn't ammo limitaions. It preforms equally as bad with ALL ammo. It is the outright refusal to admit their drum has any blame or faults in it. The shills that started their attacks on me and this forum first. Their greed, lies and arrogance. Not even an attempt on their part to fix their design flaws or to make it right, unless you got in that pocket again for them. And on and on. The WM guys and their drum doesn't even compare to me and mine on SO many levels. Too many to name or this thread would quickly go another direction.

 

To be fair there are plenty of rounds my drums feed just fine, not just value pack. I have a list of high, medium and low brass listed that should preform just fine. Buck, slugs or shot. And I'm sure many, many other will as well that aren't listed. The listed troubled ammos didn't out right fail everytime. Just enough that I couldn't rightfully and truthfully say they functioned well. Also the listed troubled ammos are all short enough not to rub the front interior surface of the drum so length isn't the reason for the trouled rounds.

 

You say you ran Wolf Buck but I just don't see how without a mod to the round. If the ones you have are the same length as the ones I have they just aren't going to fit and function. It is possible that the ones you have are shorter than mine I suppose. I did see where someone (forget who, Ronswin maybe) posted that they could fit a certain type of Wolf Slugs. Do you have a good set of mics to measure the Wolf Buck you was firing, 2.xxx?

 

Why didn't you mention any of the things you did too your drum? Do you have before and after results? How many rounds fired, before and after? What all type of ammos did you try? Did you try any of the troubled ammos I mentioned?

[MikeD 541]

[OG12C 0]

I don't want the people to goof their drums either that is why I have only sent the email to individuals requesting it by pm or email. I didn't take offense and maybe what I have done works great for me but its not for everyone to try. I sent you an email a hour or so ago with info. I will measure the wolf I have but with the drum as is when i recieved it i couldn't even load the ammo. and now if functions. the biggest improvement was nylon washers 1mm in thickness between the cover and the body. when installed you can't even tell they are there and you increase drum depth by 1mm. other mods performed were too open up the throught of the mag for the additional length of the rounds.

[OG12C 0]

as far as the O.P.'s question: " Has anyone shot their new drum yet?"

 

My answer is : What???? are you nuts... why would I want to shoot it???

They are hard to get and paper targets are MUCH cheaper!!!!!

 

true that jug nuts

[MikeD 541]

I don't want the people to goof their drums either that is why I have only sent the email to individuals requesting it by pm or email. I didn't take offense and maybe what I have done works great for me but its not for everyone to try. I sent you an email a hour or so ago with info. I will measure the wolf I have but with the drum as is when i recieved it i couldn't even load the ammo. and now if functions. the biggest improvement was nylon washers 1mm in thickness between the cover and the body. when installed you can't even tell they are there and you increase drum depth by 1mm. other mods performed were too open up the throught of the mag for the additional length of the rounds.

See! That's why I threw in my post the fresh mind part. I have always looked at the pin as a problem. Not a functional problem but a "not what it was supposed to be problem" that makes the cover have to be installed and cliped before the screws are. I always looked at the pin not lining up just right as something to fix and not explore. I had plans on adjusting it to where it was suppose to be by the second runs injection. I might have too look into it first though before correcting it. Because I always looked at it as an "I hate you why are you there thing," I never saw it the way you looked at it! I will expolre it!

 

I have looked and played with the other things you mentioned and didn't have any real results. I also doubt the cover thing will clean up the troubled rounds I've mentioned but will gladly give it a shot! One of the things you mentioned as A in your email... I think I know what you was trying to say but not exactly sure so I'll try and get with you tomorrow on it to see for sure before I comment on if I have tried it.

[OG12C 0]

I'll send a more indepth email on what I did with measurement and what not.

[nsa400 11]

My drums rock I shot about 250 reloads sunday. All relods were loaded from both brands of value packs. No problems at all. The drums fit perfectly in my older converted s-12. I tried to fit the drums in my newer s-12and they wont fit .

I'm not shure what the problem is yet But I will figure it out.

btw, my newer s-12 has the bho feature.

THANKS MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OG12C 0]

the wolf ammo I am using is 2.467 to 2.472 inches in length depending on the round measured

[2glocks 4]

I have shot about 150 through 2 drums, had to do a little mods too lock in smoothly( had too doo just a bit to the gun front lip radius) all of 5 min total maybe, had couple FTE with one mag with winchester valuepack, have since put 2 full drums or federeal winchester remington mixed through both and one of AA hull reloads, thats 100 in 2 drums with no problems. my gun has been polished and bolt smoothed some.