Saiga 12 failing to cycle & and eject shells

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

So today I shot my S12 for the first time. I went through about 20 shells of 2 3/4 target loads. Each time, the shells would not eject and the next round would not advance. I had it on gas setting 2. I then put 2 3/4 00 Buck Shot in it and put it on setting 1. The shell would get half way out and the bolt would shut on it. With these, the next shell would come up, but would obviously not be ready to shoot because the previous round would jam. What is the solution to this problem?

[kresk 10,063]

Use heavy loads (high brass) on setting 2 until things cycle normally. Stay away from setting 1 until things work on 2 first.

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Alright. I will try that. Any brand better than another?

[Etek 32]

Corry,

 

Federal ammo works fine in my Saiga. Try 00 Buck or slugs in any brand to loosen it up.

Also remove gas plug and piston and look for clogged gas port holes. You'd be suprised how much unburned powder, gunk and plastic gets into the gas system on a new Saiga 12.

 

And congrats on your Saiga purchase!

[kresk 10,063]

Alright. I will try that. Any brand better than another?

The Tromix website has ammo recommendations. Don't forget to lube the gun liberally.

[bigdaddyrandall 1]

If you know a good gun smith take it to him and have him open up the gas ports, had the same trouble with mine, i was shooting low recoil in mine shells kept hanging up while being ejected,opened the ports and i have had no more trouble.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Thanks for the advice everyone. There are not too many gunsmiths around us anymore. But there may be a few. I will have to do some checking. We sprayed a bunch of PB Blaster all over the inside of the gun to smooth everything up but that didn't seem to do anything. Its odd that these guns would not be tested for various types of ammunition before leaving the factory. But I have faith in the design of these bad boys. So yea, I will pick up some high brass loads and shoot the hell out of it to get it working. I might face my fears and take it apart too.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Corry

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Use heavy loads (high brass) on setting 2 until things cycle normally. Stay away from setting 1 until things work on 2 first.

 

On the Tromix site, It says to not use heavy loads on gas setting 2. Or perhaps if I am careful enough it will not damage anything. How many shells should I buy? Just a 25 rnd. box? Thanks!

[kresk 10,063]

Use heavy loads (high brass) on setting 2 until things cycle normally. Stay away from setting 1 until things work on 2 first.

 

On the Tromix site, It says to not use heavy loads on gas setting 2. Or perhaps if I am careful enough it will not damage anything. How many shells should I buy? Just a 25 rnd. box? Thanks!

 

Use as many shells as it takes. If nothing changes after a couple hundred rounds then maybe something else needs to be tweaked.

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

I'll try that tomorrow. I let you know how it turns out. I've got confidence in this thing!

[aessu 1]

300 rounds of 1 oz birdshot and a 25 box of 00 3" buckshots loosened up mine pretty guickly. The box of buckshots at gas setting 2, rapid fire, was a "experience"

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I'd like you to do an experiment. Pull the charging handle all the way back, and SLOWLY ride the bolt all the way forward. Does it catch and stop moving anywhere except right at the very end?

 

This will tell you if there is any extra resistance on the moving parts.

 

Also, if you want, take some sand paper and run it over the rails to smooth them out. The finish they put on all the rails etc. is a bit coarse.

 

We'll get it working like clockwork in no time. Don't be afraid to take it apart, just try to remember EXACTLY how everything came out so we don't have to help you put it all back in

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

I'd like you to do an experiment. Pull the charging handle all the way back, and SLOWLY ride the bolt all the way forward. Does it catch and stop moving anywhere except right at the very end?

 

This will tell you if there is any extra resistance on the moving parts.

 

Also, if you want, take some sand paper and run it over the rails to smooth them out. The finish they put on all the rails etc. is a bit coarse.

 

We'll get it working like clockwork in no time. Don't be afraid to take it apart, just try to remember EXACTLY how everything came out so we don't have to help you put it all back in

 

I pulled it ALL the way back and it catches(the part behind the bolt handle that sticks out a few mm above the work "Saiga" on the reciver). But when I can see the bolt is easily passing the guide for the mag, then ride it slowly back, it does not catch till about a centimeter or two at the end. It did hang up easily out of the box until I sprayed it with PB Blaster (WD 40 on steroids).

[flclisgreat 0]

i had this same problem. now, ever night on my way home from work i stop next to a field and empty my 5rnd and 2 10 round mags into it, and it loosened up a good bit and never misses a beet now.

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

So I just got in from shooting the Saiga. 95% of the shells either got caught on the thing the bolt hits when all the way forward(has the teeth-type things, that the bolt appears to twist around) or while ejecting got pinched between the bolt and outside of the gun, or it would eject but the next round did not make it all the way up. I went thought about 75 rounds. I was getting frustrated with it not cycling right. I picked up two boxes (25 rds each) of Federal High Brass Lead 2 3/4" ...7 1/2 shot 1 1/4 oz Game Shok. Shot off all of them, and only about 5 ejected correctly, went through about 15 Remington Low Brass 2 3/4" bird shot, and some Sellier & Bellot 2 3/4" 00 buck. I only was able to pick up 2 3/4". Had it on gas setting 2 as recommended. And one shell accidentally got into the mix that appeared to be Winchester. It cycle out of the small few. One of the Federal shells got bent up and wedged in the gun, and the bolt got stuck too. I had to take a hammer and screwdriver to get it out, and the bolt finally went back and the gun landed on the concrete floor by the barrel. I might just take it apart before I go spending more in ammo.

[7.62x39 0]

... I sprayed it with PB Blaster (WD 40 on steroids).

 

PB Blaster is not a lubricant.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Chances are, you got your hand on one of the Vodka Specials. If you pull out the gas regulator and look inside, a normal gun will have 4 gas ports where the hole in the gas block lines up with the barrel. If you look at yours, you probably can't see any gas ports in the barrel at all. If you reach in with a curved dental pick, you will probably find that there are two ports at the extreme front of the gas block, partially blocked, and no others. It will never cycle anything but 3" mags on gas setting #2 like that. The gas block needs to be removed and the front two parts angled back farther, and then two more gas ports drilled behind those.

 

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Chances are, you got your hand on one of the Vodka Specials. If you pull out the gas regulator and look inside, a normal gun will have 4 gas ports where the hole in the gas block lines up with the barrel. If you look at yours, you probably can't see any gas ports in the barrel at all. If you reach in with a curved dental pick, you will probably find that there are two ports at the extreme front of the gas block, partially blocked, and no others. It will never cycle anything but 3" mags on gas setting #2 like that. The gas block needs to be removed and the front two parts angled back farther, and then two more gas ports drilled behind those.

 

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

The serial number is H08431xxx actually. I took it apart yesterday but I will take apart again and see about the gas ports. Also, I spent over an hour trying to get my receiver dust cover back on. It's like its too narrow to go back on. Each of the longer sides do not go over the receiver body. And the bumpy piece that the plunger to lock in the dust cover is getting worn from me trying to force the damn thing on. So even though this may sound stupid, does Izhmash have any repair centers or something that will fix their mistakes? I spent $550 on this thing and is obviously Izhmash's fault(if I discover its the gas port) or can the repair be done by me and a drill? Thanks!

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

Chances are, you got your hand on one of the Vodka Specials. If you pull out the gas regulator and look inside, a normal gun will have 4 gas ports where the hole in the gas block lines up with the barrel. If you look at yours, you probably can't see any gas ports in the barrel at all. If you reach in with a curved dental pick, you will probably find that there are two ports at the extreme front of the gas block, partially blocked, and no others. It will never cycle anything but 3" mags on gas setting #2 like that. The gas block needs to be removed and the front two parts angled back farther, and then two more gas ports drilled behind those.

 

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

The serial number is H08431xxx actually. I took it apart yesterday but I will take apart again and see about the gas ports. Also, I spent over an hour trying to get my receiver dust cover back on. It's like its too narrow to go back on. Each of the longer sides do not go over the receiver body. And the bumpy piece that the plunger to lock in the dust cover is getting worn from me trying to force the damn thing on. So even though this may sound stupid, does Izhmash have any repair centers or something that will fix their mistakes? I spent $550 on this thing and is obviously Izhmash's fault(if I discover its the gas port) or can the repair be done by me and a drill? Thanks!

[sonnydazegunsmithing 42]

Chances are, you got your hand on one of the Vodka Specials. If you pull out the gas regulator and look inside, a normal gun will have 4 gas ports where the hole in the gas block lines up with the barrel. If you look at yours, you probably can't see any gas ports in the barrel at all. If you reach in with a curved dental pick, you will probably find that there are two ports at the extreme front of the gas block, partially blocked, and no others. It will never cycle anything but 3" mags on gas setting #2 like that. The gas block needs to be removed and the front two parts angled back farther, and then two more gas ports drilled behind those.

 

Is your S/N around H08430xxx

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

The serial number is H08431xxx actually. I took it apart yesterday but I will take apart again and see about the gas ports. Also, I spent over an hour trying to get my receiver dust cover back on. It's like its too narrow to go back on. Each of the longer sides do not go over the receiver body. And the bumpy piece that the plunger to lock in the dust cover is getting worn from me trying to force the damn thing on. So even though this may sound stupid, does Izhmash have any repair centers or something that will fix their mistakes? I spent $550 on this thing and is obviously Izhmash's fault(if I discover its the gas port) or can the repair be done by me and a drill? Thanks!

where do you live ?

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

I'm in Zanesville Ohio. It's about an hour east of Columbus. And I just figured out that Cadiz is about an hour east of Zanesville. So I will try contacting them. I took apart the gun again and sure enough, there is only two holes at the end of the gas tube(furthest end from receiver). These as the only holes I found going to the barrel. I did the test with a dental pick and I could fit it in the holes somewhat easily. So where exactly should the other holes be? I am going to contact the RAA and inform them of this, as well as Classic Arms. I know Classic Arms is not at fault here. I just want them to know that the whole batch they shipped out may be screwed up. The Russians need to take the extra 30 seconds to make sure they are shipping something that functions properly. I even have the certificate with the gun that says its up to spec. BULLSHIT! Thanks for all the suggestions!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

The drill pattern on those guns is a bit fucked up, since you basically have the middle two side-by-side holes drilled at the very top edge of the gas block. Those two side-by-side holes should be in the center of the gas block, with one more above them, centered, and another below them, centered, in a diamond pattern. In your condition, when you switch the gas regulator to the number 1 position, it pretty much closes off both holes and you have nothing. A fix would be to just drill two holes below those, in a square pattern and call it good. You could also drill one small hole dead center, and two more side-by-side below it, kind of like a #5 playing card pattern.

 

Your gas ports probably look like this............(S/N H084310xx)

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

The drill pattern on those guns is a bit fucked up, since you basically have the middle two side-by-side holes drilled at the very top edge of the gas block. Those two side-by-side holes should be in the center of the gas block, with one more above them, centered, and another below them, centered, in a diamond pattern. In your condition, when you switch the gas regulator to the number 1 position, it pretty much closes off both holes and you have nothing. A fix would be to just drill two holes below those, in a square pattern and call it good. You could also drill one small hole dead center, and two more side-by-side below it, kind of like a #5 playing card pattern.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

So have you seen alot like this lately? Anyways, so this is something I can do myself? There only needs to be two or three more tiny holes by the two already there(all in the inset hole, with the hoes going into the barrel)? What do I do to get that whole part of the gun apart? Perhaps you have a diagram of where all the holes should be and how to take apart the gun? When the barrel is "threaded", does that mean it threads off from the receiver or just has threads at the end for muzzle brakes, chokes etc? I just don't want to drill holes in the wrong spot. Thanks again!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

In order to drill the two additional ports, you need to remove the gas block so you can angle them rearward. To remove the gas block, you need to drift out the two pins that hold the gas block in position and then press the gas block off the barrel with a hydraulic press. If you don't have a press, chances are, you can't get it off by beating it with a hammer. Sometimes they are loose and will come off, but usually not without a press.

 

Tony

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

I don't know of anyone with a hydraulic press. CGW(Cadiz Gun Works) is in Ohio correct? One of the member's location says Florida, but their address is Ohio.

 

Also, where are the two pins you are talking about? Thanks.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Corry

[IndyArms 10,186]

I just got a BRAND NEW IZ109 today... took it out to test fire... and from the hip... loosely held... it fired the first and second, then the 3rd, 4th, and 5th stovepiped and FTE... SO I am thinking "huh... thats not right... "

 

I was shooting remington game loads, low base number 6's on setting number 2.

 

I reloaded the magazine... put the gun to my SHOULDER... held it tight... and BAMBAMBAMBAMBAM!!!! I bet if you took a picture you could have caught all 5 hulls in the air!!! They all fired off THAT FAST!

 

I think with these brand new guns before they are broken in, you really need to keep them HELD TIGHT when you shoot them as any movement of the gun itself will take away from the forces of the recoiling boltcarrier... and not let it stroke fully...

 

But thats just my thoughts... YMMV... etc...etc...

 

[jacksoncustomshop 0]

So maybe this was done on purpose? I did notice keeping some force on the gun made it work a little better. How could this many guns make it past inspection?

[IndyArms 10,186]

Its no that BAD GUNS made it past inspection... its just a matter of physics... with the new guns so stiff, you need to keep it as solidly placed as possible, so the action works the most efficiently it can....

 

 

[cellsworth 21]

My S-12 has the gas port pattern shown in the picture Tony posted. The serial number is in the H08430xxx range. However, the ports are not at all obstructed by the gas block. The gun cycles cheap Winchester 2 3/4" 00 buck flawlessly on gas setting 2. It cycles Winchester AA Super Handicap pretty well too. I am hopeful that with a gas knob from Gunfixr, and a break-in period, it will cycle most reasonable loads.

[VanKiller 322]

If your gun is cycling anything in 2 3/4 it probably has more than just the two ports shown. Sometimes the only way to find them is to ,feel for them with a small hook, towards the forward edge of the gas block.

 

I'm trying to work out some warranty contract work with RAAC, I'll post here if we get it worked out. Customers will then be able to ship their problem "Children" (guns only) directly to me for work and I will ship them directly back to the customer.

 

By the way I'm shooting all the "Specials" and have pulled any of the two port guns back......naturally this has not helped production quanities, but .....I'm putting out a good solid final product................VK.