The gun show loophole- What do you think?

[Bvamp 604]

Azrial -

 

I want to make it CLEAR that I am NOT talking about FFL holders. I am talking about private sellers that sell solely and intentionally for profit WITHOUT an FFL.

 

 

go to a flea market. look around at the guns if any are to be had. see if anyone wants anything other than ID.

 

go to the gun shows, look for the private sellers walking around in a place of gun commerce with guns for sale that are NOT ffl holders. also, ask the non-ffl holders selling guns at tables there which dealer they want you to transfer to. those guys with the tables piss off the dealers there because they undercut the dealers most times, then make the dealers do the transfer paperwork, as per federal law.

 

NOTHING can stop a parking lot sale though. once you leave the building, or go to a flea market that is not a gun venue, its all honkey dorey after that.

 

Nevermind the straw purchases I have seen happen at gun shows. Nowadays, now that I work for the Coles, I am required by law (and by threat of big man with big hammer coming to my door) to report such bull.

 

 

 

Selling your buddy or the neighbor a gun with a reciept is one thing. Selling to joe schmoe off the street without paperwork privately, is ALL ON YOU.

 

I am not talking about FFL holders, here Azrial. Just go to your local flea market and see how many private collectors are selling the same new in box guns to anyone with cash and a driver's license. But, those people are already breaking the law by profiteering without holding an FFL. These guys arent selling off any collection. They have the same guns back on the table that they sold last week. THAT is the loophole, which really isnt one, in reality. This isnt me or you taking our private guns, saying they are worth prime right now, or i need the money, time to sell some of them off, Ill get what i want with that money, or move my money into something else.

 

 

But dont take my word for it. Go to the flea markets, and go to the gun shows and ASK guys with lots of different guns if they hold an FFL. You will be surprised at what you are told. You being an officer of the law, might keep in mind what I said about selling guns soley for profiteering without an FFL when you are asking around.

[Azrial 1,091]

[Azrial 1,091]

I guess I should add this. I have read where the OP and BVamp insist that they has seen Strawman deals and other illicit transactions at gun shows. If this is so, go to the BATF and try to swear to the affidavit of a Federal Warrant. The problem is that this is not likely to happen, and here is the reason why. You have no idea what constitutes proof in a court of law. You are simply making an assumption based on seeing a small part of a transaction and can come no where near the standard of the law required for criminal charges.

 

Did you follow these people out to the parking lot. Did you see the subsequent sale after the original, did you see the money change hands?

 

The deprivation of someone's civil liberty of is a serious thing, it should not be based on your hunch, no matter how much "you just know."

 

My suggestion is to leave law enforcment to the pros.

[t165 30]

This Republic we live in all too often makes us compromise our beliefs when laws/politics come into play. I'm not saying to sell out but our Country is a Republic where all people including the minority are represented. I am not against reasonable gun control. I am against gun elimination. I have met plenty of people which due to their past criminal actions or mental stability should not own a firearm...at least to my mind. I think if Charles Manson was a free man nobody would like him living next door with an AK47.

 

If the so called "gun show loophole" is closed then that would be a giant step in eliminating private sales altogether which leads to a whole host of problems which will conflict with the 2nd Amendment. I honestly believe the supporters of the 2nd should put our shoulders to the "gun show loophole" door and keep it closed. Yes, the wrong people will obtain firearms through private sales...I would be a fool to think otherwise. We have to rely upon ourselves to make good judgements even though we will never reach perfection. However, it's simply wrong to make law abiding Americans pay for the illegal actions of criminals, including those which buy/sell firearms at gun shows.

 

I have in the past seen reports on Fox News which used the term "gun show loophole". If Fox News has been sucked into all the media hype/misinformation then we are really behind in defining the falseness of this left wing media term. Perhaps I'm full of s*** but I believe the anti-gun establishement will start chipping away at the 2nd in smaller bites this time. Several small bites is easier to swallow than one great big one like the original AWB.

[SOPMOD 254]

If someone is going into business for themselves selling guns for a profit and making a living from it and not jumping through the hoops that every other licensed dealer has to go through then they are cheating their competition by ILLEGALLY reducing their overhead.Sure bust them(FINES) and tell them they can't do it that way but as far as a private individual selling their own property(even if it's ..gasp...A GUN) it's none of Uncle Sugar's business.The penalty FOR UNLICENSED GUN DEALERS shouldn't be any greater than if the guy was selling drinks and snacks for a profit without getting a business license and tax number NOT 10 YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON!

 

I have sold at least 5 of my own personal guns right off of my shoulder at a gunshow over the last decade and that's no "Loophole" that's my legal right to dispose of my own personal property as I see fit and no I didn't sell any of them to Joe Skinhead,Tyrone Gangbanger or Chewy The Illegal Alien but I didn't give the buyer a rectal exam before turning over the item for cash.

 

Is this America or isn't it?

[Azrial 1,091]

... I'm not saying to sell out but our Country is a Republic where all people including the minority are represented. I am not against reasonable gun control. I am against gun elimination. ...

I am in full agreement with your post except for these two statements.

 

No one here is old enough to have lived when America was still a Republic.

 

A regulated right, is not a "right." There are entirely too many laws and regulations related to firearms now. We certainly don't more; we don't even need most of what we have! As I have said, it is long past time to quit trying to invest firearms with some intrinsic criminality and start severely punishing the criminal user! Own a short barreled shotgun, good for you! Use it to rob a liquor store, go to prison for 20 years. If you do it again we will fast fry you to a crispy golden brown. It is the man that committed the crime, not the gun.

 

I have in the past seen reports on Fox News which used the term "gun show loophole". If Fox News has been sucked into all the media hype/misinformation then we are really behind in defining the falseness of this left wing media term. Perhaps I'm full of s*** but I believe the anti-gun establishment will start chipping away at the 2nd in smaller bites this time. Several small bites is easier to swallow than one great big one like the original AWB.

 

Fox News is still populated by Media liberals; they are simply marketing to a different audience. Last week they did a piece where they talked about the increase in crime since the downturn in the economy. As part of this piece they interviewed Brady President Paul Helmke. His spin was that the increased gun sales since the election was responsible, as more guns on the street equals more crime.

 

Now if Fox News is so damn trustworthy and conservative, why did they give this professional troll a chance to tell his lie, on prime time national TV, for free?

 

I will tell you something and you can take it as gospel. I have been in law enforcement over 20 years, at all levels, and know more about street crime then Paul Helmke pretends to know.

 

None of these regulations has any effect on street crime and never has. Gun control is about citizen control, not crime control. Just ask any of the world's dictators that have tried it!

 

This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future! ~ Adolf Hitler, 1935 on the passing of the German Weapons Act.

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~ George Santayana in Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, 1905.

[superA 289]

I was undecided on this and I am still not totally sure on the subject but I say fuck it...let us all carry guns whenever we want with no restrictions and let us all train together as communities and as fellow employees and see how many random shootings we get then. I default to the notion that prohibition never works well on anything. Which also gives me hope when I think of momma gov. on her period trying to take over. Bullying only works on some of us.

[archangel689 0]

This Republic we live in all too often makes us compromise our beliefs when laws/politics come into play. I'm not saying to sell out but our Country is a Republic where all people including the minority are represented. I am not against reasonable gun control. I am against gun elimination. I have met plenty of people which due to their past criminal actions or mental stability should not own a firearm...at least to my mind. I think if Charles Manson was a free man nobody would like him living next door with an AK47.

 

Should those unstable people be allowed to buy gasoline & matches? Get married? Have children and control them with arbitrary orders for 18 years? Vote, and cancel out what the sane people vote for? Write letters to the editor and have them published without the government pre-approving them, or at least making sure that they know enough and are smart enough to write a good letter?

 

People have been killing other people for as long as there have been people, hundreds of thousands of years. The solution is not to make the world safe for the insane to walk among us, it's to identify the bad and crazy people and put them somewhere where they can't kill us.

 

There's nothing you can do to make your daughter or grandmother safe if there's a predator walking free in her neighborhood, especially not putting up more barriers to her obtaining a suitable weapon that would at least give her a fighting chance to defend herself from a predator of average male strength.

 

Bad people are like a jar of wasps in the house, you can either keep them restrained in a bottle, or come up with a thousand half-assed solutions to keep them from stinging the guests. The government can't keep people from stealing Welfare and disability payments by the millions, you think the government is competent to sort the trustworthy from the dangerous before they do something bad? Hell, they can't find someone to run the IRS who isn't a tax cheat.

 

No, the government needs to stop releasing bad people who have done bad things.

[SOPMOD 254]

No, the government needs to stop releasing bad people who have done bad things.

 

What constitutes bad things?

 

A pederast can get out of jail in 4 years,a drunk who runs over a baby can get out in 8 years but someone with over 4oz of pot in Oklahoma will do 10 years in Big Mac and good Lord if you cheat your taxes,saw 1/8th of an inch too much off of your shotgun or kill the wrong kind of critter for dinner you'll spend 1/2 your damned life in the federal penitentiary if the guys arresting you don't just snipe your ass with an HS Precision rifle while you're carry in the laundry.

 

In Colonial America jails were a place to hold people until you either taught them their lesson with lashes or sticking them in the stocks or took them to the gallows and hung them.

 

Prisons are a scam to gouge tax payers and appease liberals.

 

Either beat them,hang them or set them all free and quit charging tax payers hundreds of billions of dollars to incarcerate unlicensed tattoos artists and potheads.

 

28% of Americans have been in "Controlled Custody" which is a higher percentage than any other civilized country and still higher than Soviet Russia or Communist China and they have imprisoned entire villages in a single whack.

 

This nation's correction system is a "for profit" industry and used as leverage against citizens for money.The courts make BILLIONs from people trying to stay out of prison,the states levy BILLIONs from tax payers to build and maintain prisons and we still have to worry about them releasing violent sociopaths on the street?

 

That's bullshit,they release scumbags and say it's because of overcrowding to extort more money from tax payers.Give the dope heads and hot check writers 40 lashes and turn them out in the street and let the Gangbangers,Skinheads and Latin Narco-Terrorists rot or STFU..

[dancapostagno 0]

yes

[superA 289]

No, the government needs to stop releasing bad people who have done bad things.

 

What constitutes bad things?

 

A pederast can get out of jail in 4 years,a drunk who runs over a baby can get out in 8 years but someone with over 4oz of pot in Oklahoma will do 10 years in Big Mac and good Lord if you cheat your taxes,saw 1/8th of an inch too much off of your shotgun or kill the wrong kind of critter for dinner you'll spend 1/2 your damned life in the federal penitentiary if the guys arresting you don't just snipe your ass with an HS Precision rifle while you're carry in the laundry.

 

In Colonial America jails were a place to hold people until you either taught them their lesson with lashes or sticking them in the stocks or took them to the gallows and hung them.

 

Prisons are a scam to gouge tax payers and appease liberals.

 

Either beat them,hang them or set them all free and quit charging tax payers hundreds of billions of dollars to incarcerate unlicensed tattoos artists and potheads.

 

28% of Americans have been in "Controlled Custody" which is a higher percentage than any other civilized country and still higher than Soviet Russia or Communist China and they have imprisoned entire villages in a single whack.

 

This nation's correction system is a "for profit" industry and used as leverage against citizens for money.The courts make BILLIONs from people trying to stay out of prison,the states levy BILLIONs from tax payers to build and maintain prisons and we still have to worry about them releasing violent sociopaths on the street?

 

That's bullshit,they release scumbags and say it's because of overcrowding to extort more money from tax payers.Give the dope heads and hot check writers 40 lashes and turn them out in the street and let the Gangbangers,Skinheads and Latin Narco-Terrorists rot or STFU..

 

 

 

 

Right the fuck on man.

[Kwicko 8]

People do stuff like this way too often. You give so you think they will be happy but they will just want more. This is how our rights have gotten erroded.

 

Gotta agree. I've toyed with the idea - playing mental games of "what if", and debating it with a few friends over beers after coming home from the range - putting forth the idea that I might be willing to register and get a "gun license" IF there were some reward from the higher-ups in the gubmint. In other words, say for example I'm willing to register and take X number of hours of instruction and go through background checks and buy from approved vendors, etc., and in exchange for that, the gubmint is willing to let me go through continuing instruction and "step up" to better weaponry upon completion. It might go something like this:

 

A. Ten hours instruction gets you a simple shotgun or rifle license.

B. Ten more hours gets you a handgun license.

C. Ten more and you get your concealed handgun license (or open-carry license, whichever your state has).

D. Ten more and you get a full-auto license.

 

And so on, much in the way that you qualify for a higher-grade driver's license (limo, commercial truck, semi truck, etc.) or upgrade your private pilot's license. So that when you're approved for ownership and possession of a full-auto weapon, you've had tons of instruction AND background checks up the wazoo - they've dealt with you long enough to KNOW that you're not some crazy nut going through the motions JUST to get a machinegun. And you've paid fees and certification all the way along. They've got their money, you've got your new favorite toy, and they can be reasonably assured that you aren't going to go all bugfuck and shoot up a school.

 

The thing is, it's a fun mental exercise, but the anti-gun legislators will NEVER go for it. Why? Because it demands personal responsibility on your part (which they don't think you can handle), and it takes too much control over too many weapons out of their hands (and only they know which weapons you can handle; you certainly don't!). So you could propose this type of program to the lawgivers, but all they'd hear is that you're willing to register your weapons, be licensed, and buy from approved vendors. All the rest would never penetrate their thick skulls, even if it were the best idea in the world.

 

And ya know the funny part? If such laws were passed, I *wouldn't* be one to go for the full-auto license. Why? Because I don't feel the need for such a weapon, and because I couldn't afford to feed it if I had one!

 

Just a few things to ponder...

 

And bear in mind that I toss this out there not as a real proposal, but as an illustration why even a REASONABLE proposal won't get much traction with our lawgivers these days.

 

Mike

[Azrial 1,091]

Gotta agree. I've toyed with the idea - playing mental games of "what if", and debating it with a few friends over beers after coming home from the range - putting forth the idea that I might be willing to register and get a "gun license" IF there were some reward from the higher-ups in the gubmint. ....

What more of a "reward" do you want then the freedom that you have now, or better that your father had?

 

Anything that the government gives you, they can take away. That is why our Founding Fathers said, "We hold these rights to be self-evident."

 

In America the Government does not "give" us our rights.

[SOPMOD 254]

Gotta agree. I've toyed with the idea - playing mental games of "what if", and debating it with a few friends over beers after coming home from the range - putting forth the idea that I might be willing to register and get a "gun license" IF there were some reward from the higher-ups in the gubmint. ....

What more of a "reward" do you want then the freedom that you have now, or better that your father had?

 

Anything that the government gives you, they can take away. That is why our Founding Fathers said, "We hold these rights to be self-evident."

 

In America the Government does not "give" us our rights.

 

 

"We hold these rights to be self-evident."

 

 

+10000000!!!

[unclejake 428]

I think all of these laws are an erosion of our rights and I comply with them under duress but for the present time I can legally buy a gun from an individual without bringing uncle sugar into my private business no different than buying a used lawnmower on craigslist.

 

We should go back to being able to order Thompson Machineguns and Maxim Silencers out of the Sears and Roebuck catalog at our own discretion and anything less is just nazified,control freak bullshit enforced by the nanny state and her cop goons.

SOPMOD, AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

[Bounce12 407]

A. Ten hours instruction gets you a simple shotgun or rifle license.

B. Ten more hours gets you a handgun license.

C. Ten more and you get your concealed handgun license (or open-carry license, whichever your state has).

D. Ten more and you get a full-auto license.

 

 

This is EXACTLY what's gone wrong with our federal gubmnt.

 

It starts off all nice and reasonable sounding, but it's not. You've just given up your rights if you accept shit like this.

 

200 years from now, the rules will LOOK NOTHING like this, yet the fact that our freedom is gone will not have changed at all.

 

Get off this, "regulate" kick. It's a REALLY BAD IDEA.

 

Freedom and liberty are what we need more of, not "reasonable sounding" rules.

 

These rules don't sound reasonable to me, BTW. The Second Amendment sounds "reasonable" to me.

[t165 30]

I figured I would get flamed a bit for mentioning I am in favor of some gun control. I've just seen the misery a gun in the wrong hands can cause. A friend of mine got caught up in the meth scene and completely changed...he altered a tec-9 and got into a shootout behind the Vincennes K-mart with some police officers and was killed. He shot a Indiana State Trooper in the chest but the officer was saved by his vest.

 

Another man escaped from the local mental hospital with the help of his family. We stopped them about 1 mile from the hospital and during the fight to re-capture him the mental patient went for my gun. He almost got it. Other officers arrived and the whole bunch went to jail. If that looney tune had gotten my firearm from me...well, who knows. I'm sure if he have had a gun in the vehicle there would have been a gun fight when we initially stopped them...this guy was growling and slobbering when I was fighting him.

 

I let my twelve year old daughter stay with one of her friends about 2 months ago. I pulled up the list of registered sexual offenders within Vincennes, Indiana to see if any lived close to her friend. I almost fell over how many there were. One, Keith Gerton, I arrested back in 1996 for sodomizing a two year old boy, lived 4 blocks away. This dirtbag got out after (4) years. Having children gave me a whole new perspective on crime and punishment. I can handle myself but I am scared to death of my children coming into contact with these animals.

 

The truth is there are only so many prisons and so many beds. Taxpayers only want to spend so much money and this is another one of the compromises Americans make. It may not be "right" but it is reality.

 

My wife started with the Internal Revenue Service out of college about 22 years ago. She started out as an agent working small case then moved to large case as an auditor. About 8-9 years ago she was promoted to manager. She now manages (5) field offices in southwestern Indiana and western Kentucky. It's a job. She does not make the rules. The politicians make the rules/laws. They are elected to their positions by voting Americans. Still, friends and family constantly gripe to her about the tax laws. When we tell them she has no control over tax law they get a blank look in their eyes. I'm amazed how many people are ignorant as to how the governemnt works. Many people actually think the IRS is sovereign. She is constantly given reports of individuals and groups of potentially dangerous tax protesters. I have nothing against a tax protester...this is America and there are many things I do not agree concerning tax collection and how the money is spent (wasted). But one of these mentally ill...everybody is out to get me...gun toting idiots obtaining firearms is much more dangerous than a loud talking tough guy. Anarchist and anti-government organizations usually just demonstrate and talk and I have no problem with that. It's the mentally ill who usually wind up going postal and harming people in the name of god or something stupid like that bouncing around inside their heads. I do fall on the side of gun control when the mentally ill or felons are those being denied ownership/possession.

Edited April 20, 2009 by t165

[Kwicko 8]

A. Ten hours instruction gets you a simple shotgun or rifle license.

B. Ten more hours gets you a handgun license.

C. Ten more and you get your concealed handgun license (or open-carry license, whichever your state has).

D. Ten more and you get a full-auto license.

 

 

This is EXACTLY what's gone wrong with our federal gubmnt.

 

It starts off all nice and reasonable sounding, but it's not. You've just given up your rights if you accept shit like this.

 

200 years from now, the rules will LOOK NOTHING like this, yet the fact that our freedom is gone will not have changed at all.

 

Get off this, "regulate" kick. It's a REALLY BAD IDEA.

 

Freedom and liberty are what we need more of, not "reasonable sounding" rules.

 

These rules don't sound reasonable to me, BTW. The Second Amendment sounds "reasonable" to me.

 

Well... YEAH. That's why I said it was a mental exercise. Play the game of "...and THEN what happens?" and you'll come to the conclusion that this kind of shit SOUNDS like it should be reasonable, but the end result is always tilted decidedly NOT in your favor.

 

And it wouldn't take 200 years if you accepted something "reasonable sounding" like this. More like ten years. Twenty, max. They have a distinct tendency to wait just long enough for you to "get used to" the idea that something is reasonable and common, and then they ratchet it up to the next level.

[SOPMOD 254]

Hey,my wife was a cop but she read her Bible realized that 1/2 of her job duties were on the list of stuff God hates and chose a different career path,LOL

 

Nobody's perfect

[Bounce12 407]

I figured I would get flamed a bit for mentioning I am in favor of some gun control. I've just seen the misery a gun in the wrong hands can cause.

 

 

Have you seen the misery that NO GUN in the right hands can cause?

[SOPMOD 254]

I figured I would get flamed a bit for mentioning I am in favor of some gun control. I've just seen the misery a gun in the wrong hands can cause.

 

 

Have you seen the misery that NO GUN in the right hands can cause?

 

 

+1

 

 

I wonder how many of these people were considered unstable or criminal(other than just being a Jew which was a crime in and of itself) by the Nazis?

 

 

I wonder how different history would be if a few of the "unstable" people dead in that crater would have had guns?

Remember this was all perfectly "legal" under German Law and the Police and Elected officials said "It's just a job".

 

Think about it...

[t165 30]

I figured I would get flamed a bit for mentioning I am in favor of some gun control. I've just seen the misery a gun in the wrong hands can cause.

 

 

Have you seen the misery that NO GUN in the right hands can cause?

 

 

Sure have...much more than most people. Thats the reason for this debate. I support the 2nd Amendment. I support a citizens right to own a gun...hell, I recommend it. But not criminals...not the mentally ill. Even history teaches us the founding fathers disarmed individuals. Those they deemed dangerous.

[Bvamp 604]

guys - you completely are taking my intentions wrong here.

 

If you have 30 guns you want or need to be rid of in a day, thats fine.

 

However -

 

if you have 30 guns you want to resell because you just bought them last week off centerfire or CDNN, and set up a table at a show or venue and dont hold an FFL, thats NOT fine.

 

Im on our side guys, give me a break at my poor communication, will ya?

 

 

I am saying that if we do not make a few laws that actually work and make sense, that those that be MAY POSSIBLY just fuck us all over and rob us of our right. What choice do we have, exactly? LETS WRITE A COUPLE THAT MAKE SENSE AND THAT WORK.

 

Im sorry, thats just how it is guys. Im not the one you should bitch at, but know THIS - I am WITH YOU, whether or not you may think that I am.....

 

How the hell can it be done? ONLY WE can do it the right way. Why leave it up to these inexperienced judgemental people to do it for us, when we dont step up to the plate.

 

I am sorry, but thats just how it is.

[vbrtrmn 167]

if you have 30 guns you want to resell because you just bought them last week off centerfire or CDNN, and set up a table at a show or venue and dont hold an FFL, thats NOT fine.

I've never seen this at any VA show, ever. Anyone else?

[t165 30]

Bvamp...Here in my area if a person buys more than (1) handgun in a (7) day period they are getting visits at the residence listed on the transfer paperwork from the ATF asking to see the handgun. Nobody buying shotguns or rifles have been visited that I know of but several handgun buyers have had their doors knocked on. Is this some new policy instituted by the ATF or perhaps a dedicated ATF Agent working my area? My local FFL seems to think it has something to do with straw purchases. He now tells everybody if they purchase multiple handguns to be ready to produce them because the ATF will probably show up asking to see them. Since you are in the business I thought I would pick you mind.

[Bvamp 604]

if you have 30 guns you want to resell because you just bought them last week off centerfire or CDNN, and set up a table at a show or venue and dont hold an FFL, thats NOT fine.

I've never seen this at any VA show, ever. Anyone else?

 

Go look the law up on profiteering on sales of firearms without an FFL. If you make a business or income out of it, you are breaking the law.

 

 

If however, you are ACTUALLY selling off your private collection (LOL its all gone if you have been doing that) then you are totally in the legit.

 

 

This simply isnt the case with a lot of what *I* am seeing in the "private sector" of shows/markets/etc nowadays. Get an FFL if you want to turn guns over left and right for profit with your good hookeup.

 

 

Man, this is a tough crowd. You guys are really going to make me do lawyering for free again on this, arent you?

 

 

t - im going to reply to your post separate from this one, before considering business matters tonight.

[Bvamp 604]

t165 - it is simply the federals checking to be sure you are compliant with law. If you own 500 handguns, whats the problem? they know you have them anyway, so why not show them your collection? now, if you dont produce the shit, then how else will they know if you are breaking the law.......

 

 

this is the problem. THIS is why we need to get involved. Laws do not make sense now, as it is, and more are GOING to go in place. Why not make a few that make sense, so that we all dont get screwed? ITS GOING to happen either way you slice it, is all I am saying.....

[t165 30]

Thanks for the answer Bvamp. And you are certainly right concerning the abundance of firearm laws. Instead of passing new redundant laws our legislators should perform a housecleaning. Revisit the old laws and trim the fat.

[Bvamp 604]

t165 - instead of ROBBING our rights, do SOMETHING that makes actual SENSE.

 

 

here is a start -

 

 

1 - if you transfer to or sale knowingly or UNKNOWINGLY to any involent or any non law abiding person of this country, you go to PRISON for ten years (your sale face to face will take on new meaning and you will use that free NICS shit in a second, now wont you) go ahead - hand over that bolt action rifle to your buddy your neighbor sold you ten years ago without checking its history out. You wont get out of it like this when it comes back as stolen in 1952, or if the shithead that paid you for it shoots the next town up with it.

 

 

2 - if you engage in arms sales, for profit you must abide by (wait wait, thats already in there)

 

3 - make laws that work....America CAN and WILL do it. If we sit idly by, and let the gun idiots write the shit, we are all going to get fucked over.....

[22_Shooter 1,560]

So im in the mood for a good politically charged discussion today ! I wanted to see what you think about the gun show loophole where you can buy everything in cash and never get checked or fill out any forms.

 

Here is my 2 cents. I love guns, and I want to keep what I have and get some more. I follow the law and dont mind the one page yellow sheet as a requirement at a gun shop cause I am a law abiding type person. I feel like the gun show loophole is something that is feeding the fire of gun control when you read all the stuff about mexico and the cartels getting 90 percent of the guns there(assuming thats true). Is it time for a change on the gun show loophole? I say maybe but to be honest cant commit one way or the other because it wont address the straw buyer issue so maybe it doesnt really matter. Wanted to know what other gun lovers think about the subject.

Heres a recent NY times article on the subject that got me thinking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/us/15gun...rss&emc=rss

 

And dont shoot the messenger, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

Like many have said, there is no actual "loophole". The term "gunshow loophole" is kind of like "semi-automatic assault rifle". Just terms made up and frequently used by anti's to get their point across. Neither term makes much sense.......being that anything semi-auto doesn't fit into the definition of an actual "assault weapon", and "loophole" would infer getting away something you shouldn't, or normally would be able to otherwise.

 

Law abiding gun owners have already given that proverbial "inch", and the anti's have taken a mile. We've compromised enough, IMO.