vinnivanhood 17 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Ive been searching for a while now trying to find if a shotgun has to have a stock as long as the barrel and overall length are legal? Is it something about if it had one to begin with? Thanks in advance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 So long as it is 26" long overall and has an 18" barrel, it can look like anything you want it to. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vinnivanhood 17 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 OK thanks, theres just so much stuff to buy now and wasnt sure how high up a stock needed to be on my long list of "needs". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dngrspot 3 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 OK thanks, theres just so much stuff to buy now and wasnt sure how high up a stock needed to be on my long list of "needs". If you decide to go without a stock, you may want to figure out some way of filling up the hole in the back of the receiver that the stock used to fill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vinnivanhood 17 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 OK thanks, theres just so much stuff to buy now and wasnt sure how high up a stock needed to be on my long list of "needs". If you decide to go without a stock, you may want to figure out some way of filling up the hole in the back of the receiver that the stock used to fill. yeah Ive got that covered with one of the MSA reciever blocks and I put bolts in the holes for until I get a stock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 that is the most colorful s12 ive ever seen very creative. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Cyberpunk called, they want their gun back. I'm jealous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Actually there are some concerns with that configuration. It would be restricted in some states as it should be listed as "Other" on a 4473, as such it would require someone to be 21 or older to purchase. And as much as people don't want to talk about it here, there are federal marking requirements when changing the profile of a firearm. But, Hey it sure is a good looking build so far............... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 It would be restricted in some states as it should be listed as "Other" on a 4473, as such it would require someone to be 21 or older to purchase. Since it was manufactured as a shotgun (with a butt stock), there should be no such issues. Should Izhmash start exporting bare Saiga-12 receivers over here, your point might become an issue. And as much as people don't want to talk about it here, there are federal marking requirements when changing the profile of a firearm. So all the folks with a Mossburg combo pack are violating this law when they switch back and forth from PGO to butt stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vinnivanhood 17 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Now this just looks like san unprovoked attack towards me, while I'm trying to give an answer to a question. Amazing, you are also an expert on all state laws as well as federal regulations Not that the mossberg has any bearing on this thread. The part being sold as a combo makes all the difference to the atf compliance officer. A dealer who puts a pistol grip on a standard mossy and sells to someone under the age of 21 as a long gun is in violation of fed regulations. It would be restricted in some states as it should be listed as "Other" on a 4473, as such it would require someone to be 21 or older to purchase. Since it was manufactured as a shotgun (with a butt stock), there should be no such issues. Should Izhmash start exporting bare Saiga-12 receivers over here, your point might become an issue. And as much as people don't want to talk about it here, there are federal marking requirements when changing the profile of a firearm. So all the folks with a Mossburg combo pack are violating this law when they switch back and forth from PGO to butt stock? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) So let me get this straight: You can't make an AOW out of a shotgun that was manufactured with a butt stock, but you can make an 'Other' out of it? What keeps Joe Buyer from buying one of these second-hand "Others" and making an AOW out of it? The Mossburg scenario has everything to do with your comment. According to you "there are federal marking requirements when changing the profile of a firearm". How are all these folks who own Mossburg combo kits getting away with not complying? How is Mossburg getting away with selling all the parts in the same box? Now this just looks like san unprovoked attack towards me, while I'm trying to give an answer to a question. Amazing, you are also an expert on all state laws as well as federal regulations Not that the mossberg has any bearing on this thread. The part being sold as a combo makes all the difference to the atf compliance officer. A dealer who puts a pistol grip on a standard mossy and sells to someone under the age of 21 as a long gun is in violation of fed regulations. It would be restricted in some states as it should be listed as "Other" on a 4473, as such it would require someone to be 21 or older to purchase. Since it was manufactured as a shotgun (with a butt stock), there should be no such issues. Should Izhmash start exporting bare Saiga-12 receivers over here, your point might become an issue. And as much as people don't want to talk about it here, there are federal marking requirements when changing the profile of a firearm. So all the folks with a Mossburg combo pack are violating this law when they switch back and forth from PGO to butt stock? Edited September 15, 2009 by nalioth 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm not sure how Mossberg documents there combos, that's not one of my compliance issues. Call ATF. The PGO guns are made into AOWs on a regular basis. NFA branch checks the SN of the firearms before they approve any AOW work. Here's a letter on marking. The ATF has declared that anyone changing the profile of a firearm is a mfg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here's the information on marking. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here's the information on marking. Can you post that on imageshack or photobucket and link it? This new forum software won't allow me to open any attachments (flash sucks). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 The ATF has declared that anyone changing the profile of a firearm is a mfg. Looks like most of use are mfg then to convert saiga's to the un bastardized version Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here's the information on marking. Can you post that on imageshack or photobucket and link it? This new forum software won't allow me to open any attachments (flash sucks). Or save any attachments!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1mile50 102 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm not sure how Mossberg documents there combos, that's not one of my compliance issues. Call ATF. The PGO guns are made into AOWs on a regular basis. NFA branch checks the SN of the firearms before they approve any AOW work. Here's a letter on marking. The ATF has declared that anyone changing the profile of a firearm is a mfg. That is not what I am reading on that doc. I'm reading that any manufacturer involved in the "evolution of a firearm frame or receiver into a complete firearm..." is to mark said receiver with their identifying mark. Exception being those manufacturers granted a variance from doing so, usually those who are not involved with distributing the firearm. I see no definition of a manufacturer in that doc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thedave8 0 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have a mossberg 88 cruiser i bought new....came with only pistolgrip. No it didnt say pistol anywhere on reciever LOL....i think its perfectly legal to add advanced technologies topfolder to it.....we're not talking converting pistols to rifles here!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have a mossberg 88 cruiser i bought new....came with only pistolgrip. No it didnt say pistol anywhere on reciever LOL....i think its perfectly legal to add advanced technologies topfolder to it It is quite legal to do so, and to take it back to PGO as you like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I do have to say i like your conversion! that thing looks sweet! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Here's the information on marking. Can you post that on imageshack or photobucket and link it? This new forum software won't allow me to open any attachments (flash sucks). Or save any attachments!!! Hey Azrial, either something has changed, or I just figured out how to save these attachments. I'm using Firefox if that makes any difference.... With mine, if I want to save an attachment, I can just click on it to open it up larger. Then there are two options showing in the lower Rt corner..."Save", with a little icon like a floppy disc, and "Close", with an X. I just click on Save, then it will let me Rt click on the image and "save as"...or whatever, like normal. To the OP...not trying to jack the thread....I saved a pic of your two tone gun there...nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bullturkey 2 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 At my local gunstore in Valdosta GA a person can not buy a shotgun with a pistol grip minus a stock if they are under 21 by BATFE guidelines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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