desertloper 0 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I had a bachelor party this past weekend...did a little shooting. I wanted to make sure my Saiga was a good one before dumping in to much $$$ to it--I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD THE MD-20!! It shots alright on low brass--she got a little moody around the 100rd mark Anyway, why most of you read this thread: Have you all heard of High Standard Model 10, 12ga?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_Model_10 Check this baby out: it is a lot moodier than the Saigas on low brass and utilize a 4rd tube rather than stick mags--but it is a hell of a machine. In my opinion if you made an auto 12ga in the platform of this High Standard, that utilized Saiga-like mags and had a RELIABLE action you would sell the crap out of them! Anyway I never saw this mentioned on here--hell I never saw one till this weekend, thought you may enjoy! PS Gun broker has one listed for $1400--anyone who has seen one know what availability/value is? I have a short video I can't post, but it is the saiga side by side with the High Standard, 5 rds each in less than 2 sec--its off of a Blackberry, but you get the feeling! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dngrspot 3 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) Only one word comes to mind when I look at that the High Standard Model 10: Grotesque. Aside from the hidious looks, what do I not like about the weapon? Well, it has a tube magazine system, with a max mag capacity of 6+1. Hell, a Mossberg 500 can hold 8+1. The magazine is not detatchable. I am a fan of bullpups, but that one does not look to be well thought out, and it looks like it would be uncomfortable to shoot. The wiki page you linked mentions it has an unpredictable trigger pull. I have some experience with bullpups. While they tend to share the same weakness of a shitty linkage system between trigger and seer, it is possible to have a predictable (if sluggish) trigger pull. Also, according to the wiki page, the High Standard seems to suffer from failure to cycle more than the Saiga 12 does, and that is with the high brass and 3 inch magnum loads. And finally, the main reason that I do not like the High Standard: It is not a Kalashnikov. But hey, if you want one, by all means, snag one. If it makes you happy, then to hell with what we think about it. You have to get what fits you the best when it comes to weapons, or you will more than likely regret your decision. Edited September 29, 2009 by dngrspot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
desertloper 0 Posted September 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Just thought I'd share it--the one I shot was in pretty rough shape--4 owners at least that he knew of. The butt stock spun 360*--I actually shot it one handed with the short stock anchored in my elbow. It was fun as hell to shoot--with the Bullpup style--it creates one VERY compact unit--w/o having to have to use a cut off barrel. I agree with some of the "rude" features--but if you combine the Highs-of the Saiga with that of the Model 10 and you would have one fun little gun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jtp 5 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 The butt stock spun 360*--I actually shot it one handed with the short stock anchored in my elbow. I saw this shotgun at a gunshow this weekend. It caught my eye, and I picked it up, and immediately did not like the pivot butt, nor the feel of the gun. I simply hated it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Centerfire 1 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 In my opinion if you made an auto 12ga in the platform of this High Standard, that utilized Saiga-like mags and had a RELIABLE action you would sell the crap out of them! Sounds like a business opportunity. Maybe you could develop a Saiga-12 bullpup? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Bullpup style weapons...every time I see one I wonder what the hell the designer was thinking... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Centerfire 1 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Bullpup style weapons...every time I see one I wonder what the hell the designer was thinking... Let me guess... You're a lefty... errr, left handed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Bullpup style weapons...every time I see one I wonder what the hell the designer was thinking... Let me guess... You're a lefty... errr, left handed? Nah, bullpups have a love-it or hate-it kind of reputation, or at least that's how it seems. I guess there's the who-the-hell-cares camp, too. I used to be kind of into them, now, yeah, I don't really care, heh. Per shooting left-handed, I think this says it all... "CAUTION - DO NOT SHOOT FROM LEFT SHOULDER." Overall it seems like an interesting gun, but seeing that the gun was only used from "the late 1960s and early 1970s", I think that says it all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snoofer 138 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 ...I have a short video I can't post.... why can't you post the video? if it's because there's strippers from the bachelor party in it we won't mind ;] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sidewinderl 43 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Bullpup style weapons...every time I see one I wonder what the hell the designer was thinking... Let me guess... You're a lefty... errr, left handed? Nah, bullpups have a love-it or hate-it kind of reputation, or at least that's how it seems. I guess there's the who-the-hell-cares camp, too. I used to be kind of into them, now, yeah, I don't really care, heh. Per shooting left-handed, I think this says it all... "CAUTION - DO NOT SHOOT FROM LEFT SHOULDER." Overall it seems like an interesting gun, but seeing that the gun was only used from "the late 1960s and early 1970s", I think that says it all. My problem with shotgun 'pups is that they're generally not built from the ground up as a 'pup...they're usually just franken-pups. The Mossy bullpup, for example, looks kinda cool on the surface, but it just seems pretty silly to carry a Mossberg 500 receiver around in a plastic lunch box with a trigger that depresses a rod that depresses the actual trigger. The Model 10 is pretty much fugly, but the one aspect I like about it is the application of one-handed firing...though I don't think it'd work too well if it was this theorical "improved" version with a stick mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Meh. If I want an auto-loading 12-gauge bullpup I'll modify an S-12. As for bullpups in general and their general love-it-or-hate-it reputation, I think it's silly to judge them as a category. There are shitty bullpups and there are good ones. I'm partial to the FN P-90 and Steyr AUG. Both are extremely comfortable weapons, and lefties can't complain about the P-90; it doesn't care what hand you favor, you're not getting brass in the face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Most of the people that hate bullpups just want to hate something. Most have have never owned one or shot one. The High Standard 10-A and 10-B were quite radical for the time of their production. For one thing it featued a weapons mounted light when that was just unheard of. They also made inovative use of plastics far beofre that was common. The ammo capacity was pretty standard for the time. An aftermarket mag will bring the capacity up to 7 with one up the spout. Functionally, they ran well and there is a lot to be said for a shotgun that can be run with one hand! As far as criticisms, well the loading area was kind of sharp and tended to grab your finger. The flashlights tended to fail due to the leakage of acid from the crappy batteries of the time. This is one reason that you see a lot more B's then A's and they are usually missing the factory mounted Kel-Light. I have two, one of which I used on duty for a while, it gave a pretty good accounting of itself. I am thinking of selling one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Centerfire 1 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Per shooting left-handed, I think this says it all... "CAUTION - DO NOT SHOOT FROM LEFT SHOULDER." Overall it seems like an interesting gun, but seeing that the gun was only used from "the late 1960s and early 1970s", I think that says it all. My problem with shotgun 'pups is that they're generally not built from the ground up as a 'pup...they're usually just franken-pups. I agree with both points. The High Standard is a monstrosity of a firearm and it would take someone very talented to create a conversion for the S-12 into a Bullpup that didn't absoutely suck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Centerfire 1 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm partial to the FN P-90 and Steyr AUG. Both are extremely comfortable weapons, and lefties can't complain about the P-90; it doesn't care what hand you favor, you're not getting brass in the face. +1 for the AUG. As for brass in the face of lefties, get a left hand bolt for the AUG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 The only bullpup I like is the M95. Everything else is not for me... Not for me mind you, not CRAP. I am sure someone else likes them as much as I dislike them. The only reason I like the M95 is because it makes an excellent weapon more portable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 ....The High Standard is a monstrosity of a firearm ... Well I tried to be gentle, I really did. Define all the reasons that make your statement above true. The fact that is shares a common receiver and other parts with the Model 10 Flite King is a "flaw" only in your mind. How many have you fired? Reliance on the Wilikipedia article for validation of your opinion is flawed. There is nothing "inconsistent" about the trigger, is is just different then a conventional model. The gun was designed for High Brass and I have sledom had a problem with function when so loaded. I have had a few as well and shot even more. Also, this firearm was in common usage in the 70's and 80's. Things have changed in the state of the art. My money says, you have no experience or training that gives you any credibility. Basically, you have no idea what you are talking about, you just like to appear like you do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Centerfire 1 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 My money says, you have no experience or training that gives you any credibility. Basically, you have no idea what you are talking about, you just like to appear like you do. Azrial, I have no interest in a pissing contest. That said, I would not presume to judge anything soley on a wikipedia article and a small picture. What I expressed was just my opinion about a particular firearm that I have handled briefly at a gunshow years ago. The buttstock sucked, and the trigger (only dry fired by me) was horrible, even by bullpup standards. If you like yours, that's just fantastic. If everyone liked the same type of gun, there wouldn't be literally thousands of different models available to choose from. -Centerfire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 The mossy bullpup looks better IMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 My money says, you have no experience or training that gives you any credibility. Basically, you have no idea what you are talking about, you just like to appear like you do. Azrial, I have no interest in a pissing contest. That said, I would not presume to judge anything soley on a wikipedia article and a small picture. What I expressed was just my opinion about a particular firearm that I have handled briefly at a gunshow years ago. The buttstock sucked, and the trigger (only dry fired by me) was horrible, even by bullpup standards. If you like yours, that's just fantastic. If everyone liked the same type of gun, there wouldn't be literally thousands of different models available to choose from. -Centerfire You did not say that you did not like the gun, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. You said that the gun was a "monstrosity." My point was that you did not know what you were talking about. I think that this post pretty much concedes that point. I am not trying to be an ass, but it gets pretty tiresome reading the vehement opinions of folks with so little exsperence, stated as unequivocal fact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 "Bullpups are awesome." -Me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Centerfire 1 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 You did not say that you did not like the gun, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. You said that the gun was a "monstrosity." Sounds like an opinion to me. I didn't say the gun was, "unuseable" or "dangrerous" or any other such thing that would imply that I had used the gun extensively. I have just enough knowledge about this firearm to say that it felt like some of the cheap kit bullpups that have been referenced earlier in this thread. Those things are monstrosities in my opinion. I like the basic idea of a bullpup design but not all bullpups are created equal. And that's also my opinion and I'm sticking to it. -Centerfire 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
motopolitico 0 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I had the opportunity to shoot a straight-pull action "cadet" version of the British SA-80. Field stripping it was hazardous, because unless you were careful, the guide rod and recoil spring assembly would come flying out and smack you in the face. Or your buddy's face. It had a cheap plastic door that had no use on the straight pull action, but housed the gas system on select-fire models, and it would flop open and shut on its own due to recoil. Also, the bolt handle mechanism was on a shoddy track running on the side of the rifle, and was a pain in the butt to reassemble. That being said, I thought it was a fine rifle, it handled well, especially with the 3 point sling, and would have been just the thing to have in Northern Irish cities, which was the purpose its designers had in mind. Also scarily accurate at range. The door and handle could easily be resolved by the designers, and I could have learned to live with the recoil spring of death. Over all, I thought it looked good and functioned well, and I wish I could get my hands on a semi version of one today. It gave me a high appreciation for the strengths of bullpups. I like what Cobra has done, but in my opinion, for a bullpup to truly work, it must have a magwell. Many of the ak-based bullpups have been discouraging to see, but I firmly believe it can be executed well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Bullpup style weapons...every time I see one I wonder what the hell the designer was thinking... Let me guess... You're a lefty... errr, left handed? LOL! Actually, I do shoot left... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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